Proof Sets
100proof1957
Posts: 6,231 ✭
Proof sets on EBAY.
assuming the seller post's a decent pic of the actual item,anybody here think they can detect a repro envelope of a "sealed" or never opened set ?
Proof
assuming the seller post's a decent pic of the actual item,anybody here think they can detect a repro envelope of a "sealed" or never opened set ?
Proof
0
Comments
if they could,we wouldnt have any Cameo's would we ?
<< <i>When you buy them from the mint, regardless of the year in which they were purchased, they're not "Sealed." >>
I have to disagree, I bought a sealed box of 10 1964 proof sets. They had not seen the light of day since the were put away in 1964. When I opened the box the envelopes were sealed.
Sorry that it may've been construed by you this way, but I said/meant no such thing. The word inspection that I used, was rendered when in reference to the buyer that sold them after he/she inspected them. Not the inspectors at the Mint. My apologies for not being more specific.
Proof
marty got ripped, the mint didnt seal em.
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
Nevermind! I'm sure, eventually, that you'll get it.
If you bought them, and they are sealed, they were sealed after they left the mint.
The sealed envelopes out of mint boxes were generally described as being "sealed" by humidity over time. Some have described the outer most envelopes as being stuck shut but the inner envelopes not sealed, or partially sealed. Humidity, and by chance the mere pressure of being stored in the flat position over long periods of time, would cause the glue to 'stick'.
This has become a heated 'argument' as many dealers will swear their sets are mint sealed. Long time collectors have 'sworn' just the opposite.
Generally it is 'buyer beware' on any advertised 'sealed' mint envelopes.
what kinda sense does that make ?
Proof
Uhoh! 666...Now 100 proof's getting devilish.
i have not looked at a ton o proof sets,however,all i have seen are cut open or sealed !
<< <i> The mint put them in envelopes with gum on them and didnt seal them ? >>
They probably ordered them from an envelope supplier. Someone that specialized in envelopes like Halmark or something. There might not have been an option for no glue or nobody bothered to specify it. Did the Mint intend to seal each envelope ? who knows ? Maybe for a time saver they decided afterwards to not bother sealing them because they were sending them out in boxes anyway.
Bottom line is this. After 40+ years of collector experiences with so called 'sealed' envelopes i tend to believe those who say they weren't sealed.
'Buyer Beware'
ie: buy a box of 10 or 100 and pray ?
Proof
<< <i> I suppose in that case,if it aint in a mint sealed shipping container it aint worth squat ! >>
There's been discussion on that as well. There are things to look for on a Mint shipping box. I'm not up on that detail but hopefully someone can chime in to relate the details to look for so you know it hasn't been tampered with as well.
If memory serves me it has something to do with the tape or strapping used from the Mint.
just pony up for the slabs and forget about "making" a 50's proof coin !
Link #1
Link #2
i will admit when i looked at some sets monday a 57 was not sealed !
Russ, NCNE
<< <i><< The mint put them in envelopes with gum on them and didnt seal them ? >>
They probably ordered them from an envelope supplier. >>
They were printed by the US Government Printing Office.
Proof sets were frequently sealed at the mint, but not always. When they are mint sealed, only the center third of the flap will be sealed, not the entire flap. Mint sets were not sealed at the mint.
Russ, NCNE
It looks like as far as the more modern issues go, the scumbags are making up as many "homemade" proof sets as they can themselves, re-using the original materials and then selling them off as the real thing. The rip off artists seem to have gotten pretty sophisticated at faking proof sets and what not. Heck there is probably some company in Asia that makes up well done fake Proof set packaging and sells them to rip off artists.
Of course I do have to agree on this, that the gum letter envelopes do seal up over time. I had a box of unused cheap envelopes do that at home. We had forgotten about them and left them in the storage shed for several years. I rediscovered them, and had to throw them away as they were all sealed up and hard to reuse.
As for envelopes being sealed, it really doesn't mean much, you can steam the seal, until it comes free, and then peruse the contents at your leisure. Then a quick lick and seal it back up.
<< <i>Which is the phoney Envelope ? >>
both of those are authentic.
they kept surplus of undated envelopes on hand from 57 to 63, unsure of final production.
from the 55 flat pack to 1964, all proof sets were run through envelope sealing moisture equipment.
shipped as singles,2-packs,5-packs,10-packs,20-packs,25packs,50,100,250 and 500 bulk dealer packs.
all envelopes inside the mint shipping cartons or larger outer envelopes for the 2 and 5 pack jobs were
"sealed" by moisture at the mint. period.
they did NOT seal any,not 1 nada 1965sms, except for the outer main shipping container,not the sets.
this was due to collector complaints since the flatpack inception that the envelopes were sealed "too good" and were tearing up or not opening neatly. they quit sealing the envelopes starting with 65sms.
ANY 65sms sets in singles or outside of the outer mint ship sealed shipping cartons are bunk,looked at,licked,sealed,resold as such.
the aftermarket proof set envelopes are crude reproductions when scrutinized by knowledge of what is authentic mint product and what is crap. ALL the ebay stuff 55fp to 65sms that i know of (and i know most all or all of the sources) have been put in the aftemarket envelopes with the inner coa,set,and protectors in the correct position,licked shut then fraudulently sold as such as mint sealed proof sets...
most of the repeat sellers of these "lots" will bait each little deal with a little sumpin sumpin so when 18 out of 20 sets are spotted dogs you feel ok about the 2 sets with moderate cameo franklins or such....
only buy sealed deals of 55 to 65sms if they are still sealed inside of the original mint shipping cartons.
that dont mean there arent lots of authentic sealed singles out there because it is. just know you source or the chain of custody. ebay is scam heaven for sealed or "bait and switch" sets (show cams,send junk)
<< <i>Heck there is probably some company in Asia that makes up well done fake Proof set packaging and sells them to rip off artists. >>
Besides the reprinted aftermarket stuff, the GSA sold off truckloads of excess envelopes and boxes of packing/shipping materials back in the 1970's. There's plenty of genuine unused original material floating around.
Russ, NCNE
Who do we believe here ????
i bought it on flea bay,the pix in the auction is not the item i received,hence the purpose of this thread.
i am trying to return it to the seller as we speak,un-opened i might add.
anybody that has any proof sets,compare the color to a padded mailer of today and you will see the difference.
original pieces are much more TAN-BROWN,repro's are spot on the same color as new mailers !
Proof
<< <i>ok, ........... so one person says no sealed sets, another says some were sealed, and another says all were sealed ???
Who do we believe here ???? >>
Doop is essentially correct that they were all sealed - but he should have added that they were all "supposed" to be sealed. Mint employees did not always do their job correctly, thus many proof sets escaped unsealed. This was particularly true for the 1964 sets because they were produced during a period of total chaos.
Russ, NCNE
they are very nice,the paper is the tell.
compare my 820 Jpeg to this photo from the auction,pay attention to the fingerprint @ 12 oclock and the color of the paper,lighting may be a factor but the print is a dead giveaway.
i didnt get what i paid for !
Link
Proof
Most of the sellers of "sealed" sets use stock images. Unless the listing says something like, "you will receive the set pictured", I automatically assume it's a stock photo. If it's one I actually care about, I always eMail to verify.
Russ, NCNE
how dare me use real pictures in my auctions !
There are large numbers of original unsearched and/or gem sets on the market but
they are mixed in with sets that have been picked over repeatedly. Many of the later
sets are mostly original and many of the older sets are mostly picked over but there
is a mixture across the dates.
<< <i>There's been discussion on that as well. There are things to look for on a Mint shipping box. I'm not up on that detail but hopefully someone can chime in to relate the details to look for so you know it hasn't been tampered with as well.
If memory serves me it has something to do with the tape or strapping used from the Mint. >>
I've never seen a package of mint or proof sets in a tampered or counterfeit mailing
package. These were sent registered mail with postmarks on corners so counter-
feiting is most probably illegal.
Some people used to put in multiple orders at the same time so their sets would come
in mutiple packaging. Orders were normally filled consecutively so usually the sets in
one package would look very much like the sets in the other packages. This would allow
the buyer to cherry pick and sell packages unopened. It's highly improbable that this was
a very common practice at the time but in many cases the entire lot of unopened packages
would remain intact and the secondary buyer could cherry pick them the same way by com-
paring postmarks and addresses. It's difficult to gauge how extensively this occurs, but
there is little doubt that it does happen.
Besides the reprinted aftermarket stuff, the GSA sold off truckloads of excess envelopes and boxes of packing/shipping materials back in the 1970's. There's plenty of genuine unused original material floating around.
Agghhh! Leave it to the GSA to help out all the scammers.
A number of years ago, I saw a "unscrupulous" dealer, who had boxes of more or less new Proof and Mint packaging materials ready to be filled with goodies. I thought it was some Asian company doing it.
Turns out the GSA did it for them.
is this what you are refering too?
if the pix are the same item its likely OK,unless its a steamer !