Mastronet auction - insight into unopened 1952 card identities

bill7549 · June 25, 2004 10:04AM

Hey, I think I've figured out the identities of two of the cards in the 1952 Topps unopened packs from the $200K Mastronet auction. You've got to look closely at the card under the wrapper and match them up with a picture of the cards. See for yourself:

Don't know if this really means much or not, but one of the cards (Suder #256) is from the 5th series and one (Adcoc #347) is from the 6th series. Did Topps mix these up in the same boxes/packs?

Feel free to check these for yourself. The link for the card pictures is here. and the link to the Mastronet packs is here.

Bill

uniship · June 25, 2004 10:13AM

interesting and good work - have you tried this with all the packs yet?

dude · June 25, 2004 10:30AM

Interesting stuff Bill! Keep it coming!

bill7549 · June 25, 2004 11:01AM

Yes, I tried it with all the packs, but these were the only two that seemed to show anything that I could use for positive ID. I looked at all the cards in the 5th and 6th series and these were the only two that matched up and I'm almost positive I'm correct in the card identities. The question still remains though if 5th and 6th series cards are mixed up in the same box and/or packs. It is true that if a good many of these are 5th series, then the $181K paid for the packs was way too much.

koby · June 25, 2004 1:26PM

<< <i>
Don't know if this really means much or not, but one of the cards (Suder #256) is from the 5th series and one (Adcoc #347) is from the 6th series. Did Topps mix these up in the same boxes/packs?
>>

Very interesting findings. Thank you.

WinPitcher · June 25, 2004 1:28PM

Im not sure abt that bill, (the mixing) what I think happened is the original seller may have had a few 5th series paks left over and inserted them into the 6th series box? but then again i am just guessing.........

TheCARDKid · June 25, 2004 9:00PM

Fascinating stuff! The detective in me is wondering about 3 other packs:

The first pic I can't figure out (at least not yet). There are three distinct colors on the left side which should narrow down the number of choices. The problem is, no card looked like that.

The second and third pics are Dodgers. One has a light blue background with the distinctive red Dodger logo in the left corner. It could be any number of players.

The third one though is more specific. There's the red triangle logo, white and blue on the edge and a dark background on top. It looks alot like Palica, #273. Notice the white collar, the blue shaded area, the thin white strip on the top of the collar and of course the red Dodger logo.

bill7549 · June 26, 2004 2:07AM

CardKid,

Yep, I think you are right about the Palica #273 being the top card in the third pack. In the 1st pack, the card is upside down, and you can see the very end of the last name just inside the white area near the 5cents logo. I'll take a look and see if I can narrow it down.

Irrespective of how it turns out, it looks like there are at least several 5th series packs in with at least a few 6th series. My guess is that the person that bought them figured this out and might be trying to bail out of the investment. It's a major bummer to pay out that kind of bank and not get what you thought you got. Refer to this thread.

Bill

Fuzz · June 26, 2004 3:03AM

Bill/ Kid,
Some of the most interesting and fascinating work I have seen on the boards in some time. Great job.
This could significantly change what we know about the packs from the time period.
Fuzz

bill7549 · June 26, 2004 4:16AM

Hey CardKid, I figured out the top pack you've got listed. It's an upside down #384 Crosetti. The top left of the unopened pack has the very end of a last name and it looks like the last two letters are "TI". Plus the coloring matches up perfectly with the right side of the Crosetti card.

Still working on the middle one. Looks like we've got two 5th series packs and two 6th series packs identified out of the 24 packs listed thus far!

Bill

AlanAllen · June 26, 2004 4:49AM

Great work guys. Keep in mind that back in the day Topps would often mix series in the same pack. So saying that some packs are 5th series and some are 6th series might not be accurate - they could all be 5/6 series.

Joe

HartlandMan · June 26, 2004 5:43AM

Fascinating. True hobbyists at work!!

Incredible!

TheCARDKid · June 26, 2004 8:31AM

Great job with the Crosetti.

Here's the most likely candidates for the middle Dodger pack.

Looks like another high number pack. BTW, great link to the '52 Topps set. It's great to see these cards.

*Note*

The more I look at it, it looks like Herman. The blue background is completely unobstructed for the length of the pack. The other two cards would show the players hats and the end of their face getting in the way. Hmmm......

bill7549 · June 26, 2004 10:43AM

I think you're right about the #394 Herman card. That's the only card it really could be it seems to me. Too bad we can't find one with the Yankees logo and a bat hanging over the right shoulder on one of the packs.

Alan - I didn't realize that Topps would mix 5th and 6th series in the same packs. I thought that since the 6th series came out so much later, they were in their own packs, but I guess it would make sense for Topps to throw in some of the 5th series when selling the 6th series. Still doesn't justify paying out 181K for the 24 packs. That is a little over $1500 for each card basically. Most of the 6th series in PSA 9 have an SMR of $1400, and as we've seen with the '52 set, off centered cards are quite common. Of course, just one PSA 10 Mantle would cover the complete cost of the entire box.

Interesting stuff though....I'd still love to have the packs. I'd probably open all the packs, but have a special screening of the opening of the packs through pay-per-view to offset some of the cost.

Bill

bill7549 · June 26, 2004 11:11AM

Ok, got another one....This one is tougher, since it's yet another upside down card. It is number 276 Jim Wilson (another 5th series card). This time you have to match up the lines on Jim's pants on the left side of the card, but the right side of the unopened pack. I've included an upside down picture of Jim so that you can see it more easily (that picture is attached)

Bill

iamthegreatcornholio · June 26, 2004 11:22AM

Wow, you guys are doing great work with these packs. bill7549 you should change your icon from Homer Simpson to Superman because you seem to have x-ray vision!

Brian

bill7549 · June 26, 2004 11:30AM

Thanks, Cornholio. Just realized how much I missed watching the old Beavis and Butthead shows on MTV.

JonB · June 26, 2004 11:30AM

how can you see that? I had lasik about a year about, have 20/15 vision, and I still can't see that last one.

bill7549 · June 26, 2004 11:36AM

Alan,

You are right...they do mix 5th and 6th series in the same packs. At least they do if you believe the Mastronet unopened 1952 box home page at this link. They mention Castiglione (#261-5th series), DeMaestri (#286-5th series), Sleator (#306-5th series), Abrams (#350-6th series), and Posdel (#361-6th series) coming from the same pack.

I do think that Mastronet overstepped their bounds though by implying that they were all 6th series. "This offering contains one of the most significant hobby "finds" within recent memory, and its meaning is clear to any collector who's ever hungered for the indescribably energizing sensation of seeing '52 Topps high numbers in their completely original, unopened state."

But, I'm sure that the people who are paying that kind of bank for those cards know what they are purchasing. Still way too much though in my opinion...(of course, maybe I'm just jealous that I don't have them)

Bill

bill7549 · June 26, 2004 11:40AM

Jon,

Open up the upside down Wilson card and line it up with the unopened pack. See the pin stripes on Wilson's left leg? It shows up in the unopened pack just to the right of the space between "Picture" and "Cards". That is a tough one I'll admit, but it lines up perfectly and it's the only card in the 5th and 6th series that is even close.

Bill

TheCARDKid · June 26, 2004 11:43AM

It does look like Wilson. I was looking at that pack as well and wondered if it may have been a horizontal card. The only clue is the blue arc on the right side of the pack.

Last night I could see these images much clearer than I can now.

Cubfan · June 26, 2004 11:48AM

I have the feeling that the pictures in the next Mastro auction will be a bit more blurry.

Keith

bill7549 · June 27, 2004 3:01AM

Another clue on the Wilson card that confirms that identity is that just above the pin strip in the unopened pack, you can see the edge of the circle surrounding the Indians logo.

Question about the packs: Did Topps include a piece of paper or part of a dark colored wrapper to prevent someone from easily seeing the card identity? It looks like that is the case, because in some of the packs, you can't see anything and in other packs, you can see only and edge of the card. You can really see this paper in the Adcoc and Suder card packs from the first post in this thread. Just curious as to what others think.

Bill

bobsbbcards · June 27, 2004 4:16AM

<< <i>Did Topps include a piece of paper or part of a dark colored wrapper to prevent someone from easily seeing the card identity? >>

Might that just be the gum?

bill7549 · June 27, 2004 4:38AM

Well, duh, yeah, that would make sense. Never thought about there being gum in the pack.

perkdog · June 27, 2004 5:58AM

You seem to have vision like Teddy Ballgame. Great scientific work.

Again I am impressed with this forum.

TheCARDKid · June 27, 2004 7:15PM

Bill,

Here's another pack. Unfortunately, its the last of the batch with any sort of clue on the front (albeit, a very small clue). The dark half circle on the right against the light background.

If the wrappers had been pressed down against the top card, we would have been able to see many more clues from the lot of 24.

Should Mastro have listed the cards visible to clear up confusion of whether they were from the 5th or 6th series?

bill7549 · June 28, 2004 7:46AM

Ok, Card Kid, let the insanity continue....

I've figured this one out as well. It's a horizontal card, #297 Andy Seminick. The cap is the dark colored area on the right side of the unopened pack. If you look really closely at the dark area, you can see the red "C" on his cap. I've included the picture from the site, and have attached a copy of the pic rotated around so you can line it up easier (click on the 297.jpg attachment at the bottom).

As Alan had said in an earlier post, they combined 5th and 6th series cards in the same packs, so that is why GAI listed them as 5th/6th series. I'm wondering though if these packs were gone over to see if any higher dollar cards were showing through on the top. I'm sure they were. I seriously doubt these 24 unopened packs were the original packs to come in the box. It would almost be stupid to sell an unopened pack if you were able to shift the gum around and see a Mantle card hiding under it.

I think that does it for the packs unfortunately. I was having fun playing detective with these. Maybe we can find more auctions in the future and try to decipher the color blobs into actual cards.

Bill

TheCARDKid · June 28, 2004 10:47AM

Excellent job on these!

koby · June 28, 2004 10:51AM

Thanks for sharing your observations, Bill. This thread was very interesting to say the least.

bill7549 · June 28, 2004 1:34PM

No prob, Koby. This has been a lot of fun.

Bill

Cubfan · June 30, 2004 12:17PM

I picked up a brochure from the Mastro table at the Chicago show last weekend, and they show an GAI 8 unopened 1952 pack.

It does not list the series on the flip though.

Im still guessing we wont be able to see the little hints when the catalog comes out though.

Keith

yankeefan741939 · July 2, 2004 6:05PM

Call me crazy, but id have to rip em open

minibeers · July 3, 2004 12:55AM

Great detective work. This thread renews my enthusiasm for the hobby.
cheers,
minibeers

Mastronet auction - insight into unopened 1952 card identities

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