I feel that you can not get the value for the$$$ with a brand name computer. And the only way to go for the money is to build it yourself. I needed to get a better machine due to the fact that I was doing computer animation with a software package called Maya 4.5 I built a 2.4 GHz Dual proc. Running 1 Gb of DDR ram, a little over 100GB Hard drive on a XP Pro operating system. Maya is the software used for Computer animation on just about all of today’s special effects (Final Fantasy, Matrix, LOTR, Starship troopers, all Lucas arts stuff, Veggie tales, Jurassic parks and too many others to go into them) The resources needed are Freakin huge. It ran on my old machine but heavily bogged down and it still eats away on my current machine. The thing I like about my setup is the ability to only use one of the two procs for rendering when you wish to still do stuff on the computer and use both when you don't care. When I want to render silly amounts of data I use my Network with a prog called Muster and I get a "render farm” What I don't like about my setup is I need more Ram and better Video Card. (My next upgrade would be Two more 1GB sticks of ram and Wildcat Video Card (About 2.5K but worth every penny)).
So what does this have to do with US coins? Absolutely nothing. I am just making the point that you can build a machine far better and lower price than any of the "coin vault" computer joints if you get someone who knows what they are doing. I built the above system for under $1400 and it is bigger and better than most computers in the Albuquerque area. When you go to dell or Gateway or any of the other shops, you are dealing with a guy who makes more money talking you into and out of different options. Hardly anyone would ever need the Computer that I have but if I can build this for under $1400, I can put together a fairly good computer for around $400 - $600 Depending on what you want to do with it. Heck you could build an even cheaper one if you wanted. I would go for a homemade computer any day.
Ok, I have said enough.
Oh, and I think Old US coins ROCK!!!!!
There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who know binary and those who don't.
<< <i>Oh, my - $1600! Buy a $700 PC and save yourself $900 instead. Regardless of where you get it.
And I'm one of those people who people ask "Would you build me a PC?" and I won't do it any more. The last two I built brought me a constant stream of phone calls asking for help with things that were self-inflicted problems. I cheerfully refer everyone to Dell because none of the people I dealt with could understand that I was not their support desk.
I only mention that in case you are thinking of asking someone to build you one. You might be proactive and mention that you won't be using them for support. >>
AMEN! I have spent the last 15 years upgrading old PCs and custom-building new ones. The price of the hardware keeps falling, and users tend to know less about troubleshooting their PCs each year. Whenever someone asks me to provide them with an inexpensive PC, I quote the price by the hour. Assembly takes me an hour, loading the OS another hour and a half, but answering questions can take years.
The real question of this thread seems to be whether it is better to take time off from becoming more coin-literate in order to become more computer-literate. We have all heard the advice to buy the book before the coin. Unfortunately, PC salesmen have little incentive to educate their consumers about the workings of keeping your Windows installation clean when they can sell more new units by offering Gigabytes, Gigahertz, and MS bundles at a price which makes expert consultation/repair/cleanup look relatively expensive. Yes, a new PC with a clean Windows installation will be more stable than the old one, which is undoubtedly full of unneccesary bells and whistles loaded into RAM eaach time Windows loads. (Why does each new application you install insist on being the most important thing on your computer?)
When people ask me what is the best way to learn about computer hardware, I tell them to buy a used computer, preferably a cheap or free "broken" computer. The used hardware has no intrinsic value anymore, except for the value of the time it takes someone (perhaps yourself) to make the hardware mess meaningful. Your new PC budget should be based on the new software you must purchase and the technical support costs. Granted, Dell and other major players can purchase Microsoft licences for less than the small players, which gives them a price advantage over the remaining mom and pop computer shops and consultants who buy new parts and charge by the hour.
The fastest system I have ever used was a 20 MHz 286 with a monochrome monitor and 4MB of RAM which I built in 1989 with DOS 3.31 and Desqview for multitasking. No Pentium 4 running Windows XP lets me get to work so quickly. Unfortunately, I can't get internet access with DOS 3.3 anymore, so I have accepted the customary 3-minute wait to boot up before I can see all the cool coin pictures here.
I have seen people discard a Pentium 4 system they effectively trashed while installing software only to buy a Macintosh G5 with an operating system they also refuse to learn. Perhaps computers should have the number of hours of available quality tech support listed right next to the sticker price.
"Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity" - Hanlon's Razor
<< <i>I just sold a bunch of coins in order to get a computer to buy more coins. >>
I just sold a bunch of computer parts in order to get more coins. The previous owners of the computer parts were confused and thought the parts were defective of hopelessly obsolete.
"Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity" - Hanlon's Razor
i'd build a computer for less than what a pre-built one would cost and then go to my fave local coin store and buy a coin or 2 that will help my 19th & 20th century type set or my birth year sets. i'd get the cheap coins so that i could get more for my money
Go to Compucheap.com and deal with Russ! Then you will have some decent change left over to buy a coin. Maybe not 1600 dollars worth of coin, but a good one. Or better yet, maybe Russ can make you a package deal and throw in a shield 2 cent piece or a DCAM SMS Kennedy!
HEAD TUCKED AND ROLLING ALONG ENJOYING THE VIEW! [Most people I know!]
NEVER LET HIPPO MOUTH OVERLOAD HUMMINGBIRD BUTT!!!
WORK HARDER!!!! Millions on WELFARE depend on you!
I think the answers to your questions are dependant on your ability level with hardware integration, OS configuration, and the intended use for the computer.
Certainly, If you are a novice user then a pre built system is the way to go for you. You will need and want computer support via telephone and the on site hardware replacement service that comes with the support contract. What many here are not saying is: What do you intend to use the system for? Will you be compiling programs? running games? doing word processing and spreadsheet manipulation? It is probably safe to say you will be using the system to connect to the Internet and email. If you are a hardware integrator I would not think it to be a impossible thing for you to purchase and assemble your own computer. If you turn this part of the job over to an indivdual to perfrom can they support the system they build for you and at what cost to you?
I saw many board member who are posting that the system crashed multiple times, etc. Crashes and hangs are usually not caused by HW. More often than not a third party piece of code is the direct culprit. These are often system DLLs which have been replaced by the vendor to provide addtional functionality that is used by the software the company is selling or giving away. Only a real technician can make this determination. If you are prone to running just about any package and can debug these software integrgation issues, then perhaps building a computer is a good way for you to go. If you can part this job out can your integrator perform these essential functions? At what cost to you?
While the complexity of these system has decreased to some degree there remains a element of the unknown for the lay person which can not be worked around. Often the integrators themselves resort to "reloading" the OS and applications to remediate these issues. This is a time saving action for them and does often rectify the issue. However, can your integrator perform debugging? Are they competant enough to obtain a dump? Can they read the dump when they have it? Again, at what cost to you? If not perhaps a OEM is the way to proceed, just remember the support contract.
While it is relatively simple to construct a computer system for the average home user, the construction of a reliable and stable system is not a job for a computer geek. I would seriously consider a trained and qualified professional. Many times this means a OEM.
Hopefully some of what I wrote has caused you to think about a new system versus a new coin in a differnet light.
Dan Watson Comptia Certified, Microsoft certified, certifiable!
Dan Watson is a computer professional with more than a decade of experience in computer design, engineering and integration. His experiences include work in hardware development, OS (UNIX and WinTel) developement, support and consulting. Dan has consulted to some of the most well known names in and out of the computer business including, NCR, Merrill Lynch, IBM, Unum, and Microsoft. Dan currently focuses on IIS, Application center, clustering, and application development. Dan currently resides in Columbia, SC where is time is spent with his Wife and three children and volunteering with the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. Contact Dan at meos1@excite.com to discuss your next project.
I am just throwing cheese to the rats chewing on the chains of my sanity!
First Place Winner of the 2005 Rampage design contest!
Computers are a dime a dozen. Coins will get you through times of no computer (and no money) better than computers will get you through times of no coins. As soon as you buy the computer, it is obsolete and junk.
Comments
I feel that you can not get the value for the$$$ with a brand name computer. And the only way to go for the money is to build it yourself. I needed to get a better machine due to the fact that I was doing computer animation with a software package called Maya 4.5 I built a 2.4 GHz Dual proc. Running 1 Gb of DDR ram, a little over 100GB Hard drive on a XP Pro operating system. Maya is the software used for Computer animation on just about all of today’s special effects (Final Fantasy, Matrix, LOTR, Starship troopers, all Lucas arts stuff, Veggie tales, Jurassic parks and too many others to go into them) The resources needed are Freakin huge. It ran on my old machine but heavily bogged down and it still eats away on my current machine. The thing I like about my setup is the ability to only use one of the two procs for rendering when you wish to still do stuff on the computer and use both when you don't care. When I want to render silly amounts of data I use my Network with a prog called Muster and I get a "render farm” What I don't like about my setup is I need more Ram and better Video Card. (My next upgrade would be Two more 1GB sticks of ram and Wildcat Video Card (About 2.5K but worth every penny)).
So what does this have to do with US coins? Absolutely nothing. I am just making the point that you can build a machine far better and lower price than any of the "coin vault" computer joints if you get someone who knows what they are doing. I built the above system for under $1400 and it is bigger and better than most computers in the Albuquerque area. When you go to dell or Gateway or any of the other shops, you are dealing with a guy who makes more money talking you into and out of different options. Hardly anyone would ever need the Computer that I have but if I can build this for under $1400, I can put together a fairly good computer for around $400 - $600 Depending on what you want to do with it. Heck you could build an even cheaper one if you wanted. I would go for a homemade computer any day.
Ok, I have said enough.
Oh, and I think Old US coins ROCK!!!!!
<< <i>Oh, my - $1600! Buy a $700 PC and save yourself $900 instead. Regardless of where you get it.
And I'm one of those people who people ask "Would you build me a PC?" and I won't do it any more. The last two I built brought me a constant stream of phone calls asking for help with things that were self-inflicted problems. I cheerfully refer everyone to Dell because none of the people I dealt with could understand that I was not their support desk.
I only mention that in case you are thinking of asking someone to build you one. You might be proactive and mention that you won't be using them for support. >>
AMEN! I have spent the last 15 years upgrading old PCs and custom-building new ones. The price of the hardware keeps falling, and users tend to know less about troubleshooting their PCs each year. Whenever someone asks me to provide them with an inexpensive PC, I quote the price by the hour. Assembly takes me an hour, loading the OS another hour and a half, but answering questions can take years.
The real question of this thread seems to be whether it is better to take time off from becoming more coin-literate in order to become more computer-literate. We have all heard the advice to buy the book before the coin. Unfortunately, PC salesmen have little incentive to educate their consumers about the workings of keeping your Windows installation clean when they can sell more new units by offering Gigabytes, Gigahertz, and MS bundles at a price which makes expert consultation/repair/cleanup look relatively expensive.
Yes, a new PC with a clean Windows installation will be more stable than the old one, which is undoubtedly full of unneccesary bells and whistles loaded into RAM eaach time Windows loads. (Why does each new application you install insist on being the most important thing on your computer?)
When people ask me what is the best way to learn about computer hardware, I tell them to buy a used computer, preferably a cheap or free "broken" computer. The used hardware has no intrinsic value anymore, except for the value of the time it takes someone (perhaps yourself) to make the hardware mess meaningful. Your new PC budget should be based on the new software you must purchase and the technical support costs. Granted, Dell and other major players can purchase Microsoft licences for less than the small players, which gives them a price advantage over the remaining mom and pop computer shops and consultants who buy new parts and charge by the hour.
The fastest system I have ever used was a 20 MHz 286 with a monochrome monitor and 4MB of RAM which I built in 1989 with DOS 3.31 and Desqview for multitasking. No Pentium 4 running Windows XP lets me get to work so quickly. Unfortunately, I can't get internet access with DOS 3.3 anymore, so I have accepted the customary 3-minute wait to boot up before I can see all the cool coin pictures here.
I have seen people discard a Pentium 4 system they effectively trashed while installing software only to buy a Macintosh G5 with an operating system they also refuse to learn. Perhaps computers should have the number of hours of available quality tech support listed right next to the sticker price.
<< <i>I just sold a bunch of coins in order to get a computer to buy more coins.
I just sold a bunch of computer parts in order to get more coins. The previous owners of the computer parts were confused and thought the parts were defective of hopelessly obsolete.
NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Type collector since 1981
Current focus 1855 date type set
NEVER LET HIPPO MOUTH OVERLOAD HUMMINGBIRD BUTT!!!
WORK HARDER!!!!
Millions on WELFARE depend on you!
Certainly, If you are a novice user then a pre built system is the way to go for you. You will need and want computer support via telephone and the on site hardware replacement service that comes with the support contract. What many here are not saying is: What do you intend to use the system for?
Will you be compiling programs? running games? doing word processing and spreadsheet manipulation? It is probably safe to say you will be using the system to connect to the Internet and email. If you are a hardware integrator I would not think it to be a impossible thing for you to purchase and assemble your own computer. If you turn this part of the job over to an indivdual to perfrom can they support the system they build for you and at what cost to you?
I saw many board member who are posting that the system crashed multiple times, etc. Crashes and hangs are usually not caused by HW. More often than not a third party piece of code is the direct culprit. These are often system DLLs which have been replaced by the vendor to provide addtional functionality that is used by the software the company is selling or giving away. Only a real technician can make this determination. If you are prone to running just about any package and can debug these software integrgation issues, then perhaps building a computer is a good way for you to go. If you can part this job out can your integrator perform these essential functions? At what cost to you?
While the complexity of these system has decreased to some degree there remains a element of the unknown for the lay person which can not be worked around. Often the integrators themselves resort to "reloading" the OS and applications to remediate these issues. This is a time saving action for them and does often rectify the issue. However, can your integrator perform debugging? Are they competant enough to obtain a dump? Can they read the dump when they have it? Again, at what cost to you? If not perhaps a OEM is the way to proceed, just remember the support contract.
While it is relatively simple to construct a computer system for the average home user, the construction of a reliable and stable system is not a job for a computer geek. I would seriously consider a trained and qualified professional. Many times this means a OEM.
Hopefully some of what I wrote has caused you to think about a new system versus a new coin in a differnet light.
Dan Watson
Comptia Certified, Microsoft certified, certifiable!
Dan Watson is a computer professional with more than a decade of experience in computer design, engineering and integration. His experiences include work in hardware development, OS (UNIX and WinTel) developement, support and consulting. Dan has consulted to some of the most well known names in and out of the computer business including, NCR, Merrill Lynch, IBM, Unum, and Microsoft. Dan currently focuses on IIS, Application center, clustering, and application development. Dan currently resides in Columbia, SC where is time is spent with his Wife and three children and volunteering with the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. Contact Dan at meos1@excite.com to discuss your next project.
First Place Winner of the 2005 Rampage design contest!
HAVE to be paid in AH or $0.02 pieces
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment