Ripoff Artists, ebay, and the so called Certification Companies that aid them

tradedollarnut · May 28, 2004 11:25AM

I'm sure you've seen the other thread, but this one points out a different subject. GGS can't tell a fake trade dollar from a hole in their head. And it enables the ripoff artists on ebay to fleece people out of thousands. Look and see:

Starting in 1875 and ending in 1876, trade dollar reverses transitioned to the second type - in which the berry under the eagle's claw was removed in order to aid the striking quality. ANY 1877 or 1878 trade dollar with a berry under the eagle's claw is a FAKE. And any self respecting certification company should be able to tell the difference between a fake trade dollar and a real one, even without a tell tale sign blasting you right in the face!

Link to first auction
Link to second auction of same coin

puff · May 28, 2004 11:34AM

There should be a law against these B

!!!!

Russ · May 28, 2004 11:42AM

Oh man, TDN, you took the hit for all of us who could be fooled. Thank you, but I'm sorry eBay is protecting the slimeball and you got NARUed.

Russ, NCNE

DorkGirl · May 28, 2004 11:47AM

I don't get it. He's trying to steal over 9k from uninformed buyers, and you get kicked off of ebay. I don't understand their logic. Keep the scum sucking pig, and get rid of a honest buyer. Well, in my book you are a hero. Thanks, but ten bucks says he's reselling that coin in a week.

Russ · May 28, 2004 11:48AM

Just sent the following to this con artist:

<< The gentlemen who won this auction happens to be one of the foremost authorities on Trade Dollars. If he says the coin is a counterfeit, you can bet your life it is. You can also bet that neither I, nor anyone I know, will ever bid in your auctions. >>

Russ, NCNE

tradedollarnut · May 28, 2004 11:49AM

Somebody want to contact 'beerauditor' [see first link] and see if the coin was kept or returned? And ask if 'copy' was scratched out on the bottom of the reverse...

Looks funny to me!

Oh! Look! He's got another ... imagine that!

goose3 · May 28, 2004 11:51AM

TDN

that is some VERY excellent feedback you left him.

I suppose this guy will now show up here.

slickpick · May 28, 2004 11:53AM

I had been watching this seller on another item just to see the value of hype and lying. Item 3911313419 was a raw 1920 FH ms63 slq which he bought on Yahoo for $120 and sold as a ms67!!!!!! for $530 on Ebay. This guys making a good living on ripping people off and Ebay is protecting him. I guess money, hype and deceit rule.

SarasotaFrank · May 28, 2004 12:05PM

What a nightmare.

Stuff like what TDN pointed out would be missed by 99% of the ebayers.

Sorry ebay took the action they did.

tradedollarnut · May 28, 2004 12:10PM

Email: chadlings2003@yahoo.com
User ID: chadlings
Name: Elliot Ho
Company:
City: Long Beach
State: CA
Country: United States
Phone: (562) 400-xxxx
Registered Since: Thursday, Jan 23, 2003 12:59:40 PST

Well, he's got the right last name!

SarasotaFrank · May 28, 2004 12:14PM

<< Somebody want to contact 'beerauditor' [see first link] and see if the coin was kept or returned? And ask if 'copy' was scratched out on the bottom of the reverse... >>

looks like something was scratched out under the word cent - is that where "copy" would have appeared?

Russ · May 28, 2004 12:49PM

Oh oh! The seller notified eBay that I sent him a mean eMail.

Russ, NCNE

Placid · May 28, 2004 12:53PM

You will get NARU'ed now Russ.

braddick · May 28, 2004 12:58PM

To be fair that isn't a Global Grading Service holder. They're the ones with the full sized holder with a detailed description of the coin along with a photo of it. The one showed looks homemade and is simply ripping off the initials. I'm sorry you had to take a hit on this. Let's hope it's only temporary as sometimes being kicked off of eBay is.

nederveit · May 28, 2004 1:01PM

I sent him one outside of e-bay, asking for his defense (his side of the story), just to be as fair as possible. This type of scum should be kicked off e-bay as fast as possible. What can we do to enable that?

tradedollarnut · May 28, 2004 1:01PM

The seller lied about the certification?

braddick · May 28, 2004 1:05PM

<< The seller lied about the certification?

>>

It actually looks like a SGS holder (you know... the ones with all the "PR70" Moderns...). They come apart easily- just peel off the two gold decals- and there you go: instant holder. Make up your own computer generated insert and, well...

(Oh, the serial number is a nice touch though.)

Placid · May 28, 2004 1:08PM

You mean these? Wouldn't they be GCS?

Russ · May 28, 2004 1:13PM

<< I have not harassed you at all. Please keep reporting to eBay. They will investigate you as part of the process. All they have to do is look at your selling history to realize what you are doing.

At 08:00 PM 5/28/04 -0700, you wrote:
>>>>
i asked you nicely not to e-mail me anymore and you did so i have reported you for harrsment. please leave me alone or i will be forced to go to higher athorities.

----------
Do you Yahoo!?
Friends. Fun. <http://messenger.yahoo.com/>Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger
<<<< >>

This is fun.

BTW, his name in the eMails is "Chad Austin", not Elliot Ho as he is listed on eBay.

Russ, NCNE

ss350camaro · May 28, 2004 1:16PM

link

Sheesh !!!! You can just about read the word COPY on this one. He probably filled it in and AT'ed it to try and hide. Looks pretty obvious to me.

Russ · May 28, 2004 1:19PM

Sure looks like the word copy used to be there.

Russ, NCNE

ss350camaro · May 28, 2004 1:27PM

I emailed him too. I asked why it looks like it says COPY on the reverse ?

No response yet.

nederveit · May 28, 2004 1:44PM

I got a response, will keep you posted:

i will get back to you but i have done nothing wrong these people harassing me

EVillageProwler · May 28, 2004 1:48PM

I just did a search in Yahoo for the person and came up with this:

C K Austin
5016 Matney Ave
Long Beach, CA

JimC · May 28, 2004 1:48PM

"Please note that I will not be able to answer questions because I will be out of the country tomorrow- Sorry for the inconvenience Thanks-"

For someone that cannot respond to questions from potential buyers - He did a great job of firing off a response to Tradedollarnut's EBay feedback.

"Item refused. Seller knowingly sold a fake coin for nearly $10k. Stay away!!!! Buyer tradedollarnut( 41) no longer a registered user May-27-04 09:11 3914224092
Reply by chadlings: Report to Ebay-DEAD BID and TELL STORY-Look @ Date-Don't bid if won't pay-JERKKK May-28-04 09:13"

Shoot he does not know how to spell jerk right. Did EBay have their eyes closed or what.

jim

Proof69Eagles · May 28, 2004 1:57PM

null

Look at the 4th large picture on this auction, you can see where copy is removed from it also.

nederveit · May 28, 2004 1:58PM

His final response to me I presume:

I REVISED ITEM

Any suggestions?

ohbaby · May 28, 2004 2:02PM

Austin, Angelica
5016 Matney Ave
Long Beach, CA 90807
(562) 428-3375

or

Austin, C K & A L
5016 Matney Ave
Long Beach, CA 90807
(562) 423-4546

www.whitepages.com

08HALA20 · May 28, 2004 2:03PM

Another reason this forum is so valuable.

Is this another gem of his???? Seems like he is buying cheaper coins on Yahoo and selling them with hype on ebay.

Yahoo

ebay

Rookie Joe

Sent him a question about the Yahoo auction:

"Is this the same coin you bought on Yahoo couple of weeks ago? MS61 not MS65-66."

EVillageProwler · May 28, 2004 2:07PM

Jeez! Whitepages.com is useful!!!

EVP

SarasotaFrank · May 28, 2004 2:15PM

the rim nick above the "E" in liberty is consistent on the two Peace Dollars - he bought it on yahoo for $27.00 in an NGC MS61 holder and is hyping it on ebay as an MS 65+++ at $6000.

Should I ask the seller a question????

08HALA20 · May 28, 2004 2:17PM

<< the rim nick above the "E" in liberty is consistent on the two Peace Dollars - he bought it on yahoo for $27.00 in an NGC MS61 holder and is hyping it on ebay as an MS 65+++ at $6000.

Should I ask the seller a question???? >>

Sarasota Frank---I just asked him

Joe

tradedollarnut · May 28, 2004 2:22PM

Here is his modification to the listing:

I AM BEING HARRASED BY THE PERSON WHO INTERUPTED FIRST AUCTION SO IF YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED IN THIS COIN PLEASE DO NOT BID I HAVE BOUGHT IT WAS WAS TOLD REAL BUT THAT SEEMS TO BOTHER SOME OTHERS I WILL ANSWER REAL QUESTIONS ONLY!!

Really now.... I've not harassed him in any way. In fact, I've only contacted ebay about the matter and warned others with the pictures here on the Forum. I've specifically refrained from contacting him as I choose not to deal with people that will knowingly sell fake coins in order to rip people off. What a JERKKKKKKKK!

EVillageProwler · May 28, 2004 2:25PM

I believe it is trivially easy for us to create several additional ebay ID's and use them all to report to ebay about this guy. Maybe if there's enough volume then ebay will do something to this guy.

TDN - next time create a dummy acc't first!

EVP

08HALA20 · May 28, 2004 2:34PM

<< 

TDN - next time create a dummy acc't first! >>

Valid point but it is too bad one has to do that.
Ebay dropped the ball here.
No investigation by ebay here.

ELLIOTHO is a registered name on ebay also--same one I presume, not used as of yet.

Joe

tradedollarnut · May 28, 2004 2:34PM

TDN - next time create a dummy acc't first!

I tried, but flowinghair was already being used....

nOoBiEeE · May 28, 2004 2:37PM

Great reading and great thread. This is just one reason I love these boards...

ss350camaro · May 28, 2004 2:38PM

Take a look at this one. What do you think ?

ohbaby · May 28, 2004 2:38PM

eBay could care less about guys like this. There "legal" stance is they are merely providing a meeting place for people to buy/sell. They are a matchmaker and not responsible for divorces! I can understand their position somewhat, afterall who can determine what's real and what's fake? Is it possible the seller really is clueless?

As you peruse ebay you can spot tons of fake merchandise. I collect pre Columbian gold/artifacts and I can safely say 90%+ of what is on ebay is fake or misdescribed. I don't buy anything pre Columbian on ebay. Ebay is aware as some major dealers in the stuff have complained but nothing has changed.

Now let's talk software......you won't find but maybe 1% fake Microsoft software on ebay. Why? Because Microsoft has lawyers, lots of them and they could bury ebay in legal actions and bad publicity. Do a search from 2003 archive of www.informationage.com for an interesting story on how and why ebay only keeps off certain types of auctions.

As for the seller of these fakes, there are probably a few dozen like him. What's interesting is how many bids he has gotten on obvious fakes.

nederveit · May 28, 2004 2:41PM

How do you contact e-bay about it? Can you provide a link please? Thanks.

08HALA20 · May 28, 2004 2:42PM

<< Is it possible the seller really is clueless? >>

In this case there seems no doubt he is aware of what he is doing.

Joe

Myqqy · May 28, 2004 2:45PM

TDN- I'm not trying to pile on you in any way, but I am curious- what in the world were you thinking bidding almost $10k on a coin in dubious looking GGS holder??!? It just seems to me that all of the red warning lights should have been going off... That being said, this guy is a complete wanker, and I appreciate you educating us about this type of fake!

SarasotaFrank · May 28, 2004 2:52PM

I'm guessing TDN spotted it as a fake and bid on it with no intention of buying it in order to leave the feedback and expose the seller, which was a damn noble gesture on his part, as it resulted in him having his account circling the drain.

tradedollarnut · May 28, 2004 2:52PM

what in the world were you thinking bidding almost $10k on a coin in dubious looking GGS holder

That I wasn't going to let this bozo rip somebody off on that coin. It had the potential to be way too much money to just let it go.

Thanks, Frank.

Myqqy · May 28, 2004 2:59PM

I'm guessing TDN spotted it as a fake and bid on it with no intention of buying it in order to leave the feedback

Ohhhhhhhhh... OK- carry on then- and thanks for fighting the good fight!

relayer · May 28, 2004 3:04PM

The morons at eBay are either too stupid to do anything, or they just don't care.

Unfortunately, I think it's a little bit of both.

lordmarcovan · May 28, 2004 3:08PM

GGS? WTH is GGS?

As if I didn't know. I think somebody should try for a little truth in advertising and start a grading company called FBN, for Fly-By-Night, or SOGS, for Snake Oil Grading Service.

RYK · May 28, 2004 9:12PM

Coin posse?

I think this board serves as a coin posse. In the last couple days we have seen one scam artist exposed (and harrassed) for selling obviously counterfeit coins and "Wall Street Rare Coins", a boiler room operation selling legitimate coins at ridiculous prices with high pressure techniques, coerced into refunding the elderly buyer his money for overpriced gold coins.

Good work!

Coppernicus · May 28, 2004 9:28PM

It's obvious to all serious collectors and honest dealers that ebay's most significant drawback is its failure to effectively police its auctions for fraud! Sure, give the boot to TDN while this pinhead seller gets to continue fleecing people.

How tough could it be for ebay to better monitor its coin auctions, especially the rarer coins? The trade dollar auction was so obviously a scam that it could have been pulled very soon after it was posted.

Get with it ebay - you're losing the serious buyers and sellers.

Mike

(I copied this from the other thread on this topic - can't type too well!)

Dennis88 · May 28, 2004 9:51PM

I've sent him a question about a peace dollar he has for sale:

"Hello,

I'm interested in bidding on this coin, but I need a better pic of the edge. I also saw in your feedback that you tryed to sell fake coin. I hope this isn't a fake?"

The edge looks plain to me....

Dennis

100proof1957 · May 28, 2004 11:25PM

would think the Treasury Dept would jump on this guy,no different than bogus bills.
not to mention wire fraud and maybe even mail fraud.

Is there not a warning from ebay when you list an item,that you guaranty the item is real ?

sure is when i run a stamp auction !

Proof

Ripoff Artists, ebay, and the so called Certification Companies that aid them

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