NGC Crackout gets a bodybag from PCGS

rlawsha · May 20, 2004 9:57PM

Well this has not been a good week. Earlier this week my Trade Dollar got body bagged which I can understand. But now PCGS has decided to body bag my next submission also. I cracked an 1879-S out of an NGC holder that I felt had potential upgrade possibilities. PCGS body bagged it because of altered surfaces. Here are photos of the coin before I cracked it out and sent it in. I can't figure out why they said altered surfaces and would not grade the coin. It sure looked original to me. Do you think this is a candidate for a Presidential Review?

BAJJERFAN · May 20, 2004 10:11PM

If you want to spend the $$$ go for the review. This is exactly the reason why I would submit the coin in the holder. If the PR doesn't go you have a new problem. Getting it into a new holder or taking a hit if you sell. Offer it to Dorkkarl and see if he will give you what you paid for it since the plastic doesn't matter. You can keep it and enjoy it raw but I bet it will bug the chit out of you forever cuz PCGS said it has altered surfaces.

poorguy · May 20, 2004 10:40PM

PCGS: Swing and a Miss.

Did I see that coin on eBay not too long ago? I might have been a bidding competitor.

I think that coin looks just fine. If it really means alot to have it in a holder, resubmit it. I wouldn't waste time on Pres review.

Actually, I would probably send it to NGC.

rlawsha · May 20, 2004 10:51PM

<< <i>Did I see that coin on eBay not too long ago? I might have been a bidding competitor. >>

What is your eBay ID? There was no POORGUY that bid on this item.

Placid · May 20, 2004 11:12PM

Can you do a presidential review on a bodybag?

rlawsha · May 20, 2004 11:15PM

Well that's a good question. Since I have never done a Presidential Review, I don't know for sure. The thought that they wouldn't hadn't crossed my mind. Hopefully someone will chime in with an answer.

airplanenut · May 20, 2004 11:24PM

I'd assume you can do a presidential review... a bodybag is grading a coin as damaged, as opposed to with a number...

eagle7 · May 20, 2004 11:26PM

Several different ways a surface can be changed. Im not saying any of these things are wrong with your particular coin. 1. Actual alteration of the metal itself by shaving and grooving metal to alter surfaces. Glue or putty to hide heavy marks. Thumbing on the cheek, which if I had to guess, is what PCGS thinks is the problem with this coin. Send it back to NGC and keep your fingers crossed. JMHO.

Placid · May 20, 2004 11:27PM

<< <i>I'd assume you can do a presidential review... a bodybag is grading a coin as damaged, as opposed to with a number... >>

How does pcgs know you are sending the same coin back since its raw?
I think it would be a good way of saving some money vs. paying full price a second time if pcgs is in error but I also see how someone might abuse it.

rlawsha call 1-800 pcgs customer service number and ask them would be the fastest way to get a for sure answer. They open at 7am pst.

rlawsha · May 21, 2004 12:35AM

Good point - Maybe I should just send it to NCS then NCG. I don't know if PCGS does Reviews on non slabbed items or not. From what I gather only 5% of the coins that go in for review get upgraded so.....

sadysta1 · May 21, 2004 12:57AM

My anacs crackout got bagged by NGC, it happens a lot, you are not alone

BAJJERFAN · May 21, 2004 1:06AM

Send it back to NGC and hope it will reslab the same as before!! In the future you may want to seek another opinion or two from someone you trust BEFORE you crack it out.

BaghdadBob · May 21, 2004 1:09AM

It's obvious that the coin has altered surfaces.
The reverse is inverted.

GAT · May 21, 2004 1:22AM

Wecome to the PCGS "altered surfaces" BB club. For some reason PCGS doesn't want to slab many PL or DMPLs. It has happened to me and other people I know. Send it off to NGC or ANACS and get it slabbed. The bad part is you will lose the old NGC slab premium.

IrishMike · May 21, 2004 1:25AM

Coins get messed with all the time prior to submission, especially Morgans and ultimately they turn in the holder. What is obvious now may not have been when it was slabbed by NGC, witness the famous 63 PF70DCAM cent that turned.

rhedden · May 21, 2004 1:34AM

I don't know who's looking at prooflike Morgans at PCGS these days, but they aren't being generous. I wasn't happy with my last submission, either. I wouldn't send any more PL's or DMPL's there for a while.

Russ · May 21, 2004 1:35AM

ANACS - MS63
NGC - Bodybag, AT
PCGS - MS63

PCGS - Bodybag, AT
NGC - MS65

Welcome to the merrygoround.

Russ, NCNE

airplanenut · May 21, 2004 1:55AM

<< <i>How does pcgs know you are sending the same coin back since its raw? >>

Can you not do a Pres. Review before your coin comes back? If that's the case, then I'm wrong... I thought you could hold the shipment

Boom · May 21, 2004 2:05AM

Man, that's cruel and all goofed up. Maybe some of the graders don't stay graders very long. It's

either feast or famine around here. One submission you happen to get some good grades-probably

from experienced graders-next time, you get brutalized by graders like this that don't have a clue!

Best thing to do is stop cracking out-send them in the slabs. This may help the newbie graders!

Lots of inconsistencies lately. Coin comes back with what looks like a pencil mark across the reverse-

didn't leave here that way! Gets' BB'd (Not at all pleased) for "scratch or rim nick???"

I buy 2 coins this week-two major keys-one has a scratch so deep on it you could pour water in it and

let the ants drink out of this trough! The other(scratch-rim dent,huh?) has such severe scrape marks

on the rim it looks like it was dragged on the cement. They both got graded yet my mystery, total

superficial mark gets bagged?? Both of these keys fit that definition-not a phantom pencil mark that is

totally superficial. Anybody feel like rolling the dice?

lava · May 21, 2004 2:08AM

I agree with Bajjerfan, you should NOT have cracked it out before submitting it, and you SHOULD send it back to PCGS. I'm surprised no one has said it yet, but this coin does not merit a presidential review, even if you are correct in your assessment of the coin.

Baley · May 21, 2004 2:08AM

sorry to hear about your BB. Better luck next time!

rlawsha · May 21, 2004 4:26AM

<< <i>I'm surprised no one has said it yet, but this coin does not merit a presidential review >>

Why, because of the value of the coin or because of something else?

BAJJERFAN · May 21, 2004 5:23AM

I would guess that the value of the coin even in 66 would not warrant a Pres review at this time.

Myqqy · May 21, 2004 7:21AM

I'm wondering if people believe that a coin sent in to pcgs in a ngc or anacs holder has less of a chance of getting a BB for altered surfaces? I know some people feel that there is a holder bias at pcgs, but perhaps they are less likely to give a BB if it was already holdered by somebody else...

flyingcougar13 · May 21, 2004 7:59AM

They are all hit and miss. I sent a raw 79-cc morgan to PCGS, came back altered surfaces(I guessed it was a slide on the cheek). Off to NGC, came back MS62. Off to PCGS to cross and it now resides in a PCGS holder. Go figure.

BAJJERFAN · May 21, 2004 8:10AM

I don't think the holder adds or subtracts any bias as HRH has said many times that they want as many nice coins as they can get in PCGS holders. While its true that the graders have seen a lot of Morgans do you suppose it is also possible that some days they see and grade TOO MANY? Maybe some of these instances where there seems to be some unexpected inconsistencies is a result of Morgan overload.

NGC Crackout gets a bodybag from PCGS

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