Did you ever get a BB from ANACS, PCGS, or NGC and why?

GoldCoinLover · May 18, 2004 6:41AM

Did you ever get a BB from ANACS (counterfeit), PCGS, NGC, and why? Or did you ever get a net grade from ANACS? This should be a fun thread

I got a net grade from ANACS for my gold sovereign being scratched. The net grade was AU 55. The scratch was sever enough to take it down 3 points (It said details UNC)

Also, here's a pic of how sever the scratch is (Pic taken in direct sunlight in arizona at 130 degrees outside)

Catch22 · May 18, 2004 7:16AM

I've had one body bag over the years...PVC.
Not that I would be competent in avoiding the darn things, it's just that I collect well circulated rare and key date Seated coins. If I were a collector of Uncirculated coins, I'd have my share of body bags and expensive lessons to talk about.

Numismanic · May 18, 2004 7:22AM

Have three bodybags from PCGS so far.

1877cc seated dime BB/Questionable color

1888 ihc BB/Questionable color

1934p quarter BB/Not Genuine

paigowjohnny · May 18, 2004 7:23AM

1 from PCGS, 2 from NGC...all for cleaning

Russ · May 18, 2004 7:25AM

I've lost count - both from PCGS and NGC. Some of which are now graded - by PCGS and NGC.

Edited to add: I've never gotten one for cleaning, though, which seems to be the most common reason. I get them for artificial toning, altered surfaces, environmental damage, etc. Even got one from NGC for "rim filing", whatever the hell that is.

Edit #2: I take that back. I did get one for cleaning from NGC on a Morgan that had been bodybagged at PCGS for AT.

Russ, NCNE

Tootawl · May 18, 2004 7:28AM

1 from PCGS - Cleaning.

mgoodm3 · May 18, 2004 7:31AM

I got a BB for an 1838 ~ MS62 No drapery Half dime for cleaning. On close perusal when it got home the cleaning was subtle but evident with a loupe. My current submission, I went over much more thoroughly, but still may get a couple BB's out of it. Depends on the mood of the gods of grading.

rainbowroosie · May 18, 2004 8:18AM

I've gotten one for almost every conceivable reason except for being counterfeit...."several" deemed as being "AT" or "QT"

ajia · May 18, 2004 8:25AM

1 BB (So Far!) from PCGS, I expect more.
Lots of Net Grades for Morgans from ANACS (better dates that expect to sell) that I knew where cleaned oor otherwise would be BB from PCGS.

Russ · May 18, 2004 8:26AM

<< ...."several" deemed as being "AT" or "QT" >>

I don't know why they would bodybag a coin for Quality Toning.

Russ, NCNE

rainbowroosie · May 18, 2004 8:32AM

Russ,
I fully admit in public that I have tried to slab some coins with questionable toning...we all learn the hard way....in fact, the only way to really learn what is "market acceptable" is to buy them, try to slab them, and comiserate over them!!...However, I have been very pleasantly surprised when some borderline gems made it into holders!!! Winning is fun!!!

Dabigkahuna · May 18, 2004 8:33AM

How about having the same coin BB'd by PCGS twice, NGC once, ANACS once, the second time around at ANACS it was holdered at which point it crossed at PCGS. I originally cracked it out of an NGC slab!!!

Larry
Dabigkahuna

nwcs · May 18, 2004 8:39AM

Yeah, I've gotten body bags from NGC and PCGS. And they were right each time. Mostly for cleaning. And when I learned more I saw what they saw. The only close exception was one bagged for cleaning and when I talked with Rick Montgomery about it, he said the cleaning was wrong but because of a wheel mark the coin would be bagged.

GoldCoinLover · May 18, 2004 8:39AM

<< How about having the same coin BB'd by PCGS twice, NGC once, ANACS once, the second time around at ANACS it was holdered at which point it crossed at PCGS. I originally cracked it out of an NGC slab!!!

Did it ever make it into a a slab?

Russ · May 18, 2004 8:40AM

<< I fully admit in public that I have tried to slab some coins with questionable toning... >>

You ain't the only one! I do it even after several people tell me it'll be bodybagged.

Russ, NCNE

Rampage · May 18, 2004 8:40AM

BBed at PCGS three times. One for QT, one for environmental damage and one for being whizzed.

None at NGC.

Several net grades from ANACS all of which I knew they would be netted which is why I sent them to ANACS to begin with.

Never any fakes.

Colorfulcoins · May 18, 2004 9:07AM

What's a bb?

coinbuf · May 18, 2004 9:39AM

Yep I've gotten some all for QT. Not surprising as I'm a Lincoln collector and all three services are very conservitive when it comes to copper.

Chris

flaminio · May 18, 2004 9:42AM

I had a bunch of gold net graded by ANACS. The stuff was sold to me as "Uncirculated", so I was pretty jammed up about it. But, it was a long time ago, and I wouldn't expect the dealer to honor any kind of guarantees. I didn't even have any receipts anymore, so no dice there.

The whole set is up on eBay now, if anyone wants it. Click my sig link to see it.

GoldCoinLover · May 18, 2004 9:46AM

<< What's a bb?

>>

Ah, a BB. Well , you can shoot squirrels and rabbits with it. It's good for hunting. They make good marbles too! Also good in car parts and yo-yo's.

shuckins · May 18, 2004 9:51AM

dollardude · May 18, 2004 9:57AM

I must have done a good job screening my own coins prior to submitting them under the collector's club. I have only had one BB from PCGS for cleaning. It was an 1880-CC Morgan in VG. She had what I thought was original toning, but had been cleaned. I have never submitted any coins to anyone else except for PCGS, so I can't speak for the others. I personally screened out several others that had rim dings and that I thought were cleaned prior to submitting them. That is what dealers used to do. Now, us collectors have to do this if we submit them ourselves.

morganbarber · May 18, 2004 10:14AM

I had a Morgan bagged for "altered surfaces". I still can't see what they meant.

GoYankees · May 18, 2004 11:04AM

Twice at PCGS.

Both were in 2000 and were my very first ever submissions to a TPG.

1.) 1914-D Lincoln Cent (planchet flaw)
2.) 1916-D Mercury Dime (not genuine - added "D")

The 14-D I bought raw from eBay when I was a newbie. I paid $75. My fault, wasn't paying attention to the auction. It now resides in an ANACS holder - Fine Details NET VG 8 DAMAGED.

My dad bought the 16-D for me for $240 back in 1987. Turns out the guy he bought it from was a shady antiques dealer. My dad passed away in 1989 and until 2000 when I sent it to PCGS, I didn't realize that it was a fake. I thought I had a completed circulated Mercury dime set. I was heartbroken because my dad got me that coin. Lucky for that guy my dad passed away. If he had found out, my dad would have put him in the hospital unless he was refunded immediately. I found out just before my dad died from another antiques dealer, a good friend of my dad's, that this guy was shady. I showed him the coin and he put his thumbnail on the "D" to see if it would pop off. It didn't. I guess he wasn't strong enough. My dad's friend warned me about coin collecting and I completely lost interest in it for 10 years until I dug up my old childhood collection, found out about eBay and got bitten by the Bug. I've learned a great deal and have been collecting non-stop ever since. Anyway, the coin is still in its body bag and I'll keep it for educational purposes. I like to put some kind of stamp on it so that it doesn't fall into wrong hands.

A few days ago, I finally purchased a replacement 1916-D on eBay PCI (old green 10-digit) AG-3 that will be submitted to PCGS as soon as I get it in the mail.

GoldCoinLover · May 18, 2004 11:27AM

<< Twice at PCGS.

Both were in 2000 and were my very first ever submissions to a TPG.

1.) 1914-D Lincoln Cent (planchet flaw)
2.) 1916-D Mercury Dime (not genuine - added "D")

The 14-D I bought raw from eBay when I was a newbie. I paid $75. My fault, wasn't paying attention to the auction. It now resides in an ANACS holder - Fine Details NET VG 8 DAMAGED.

My dad bought the 16-D for me for $240 back in 1987. Turns out the guy he bought it from was a shady antiques dealer. My dad passed away in 1989 and until 2000 when I sent it to PCGS, I didn't realize that it was a fake. I thought I had a completed circulated Mercury dime set. I was heartbroken because my dad got me that coin. Lucky for that guy my dad passed away. If he had found out, my dad would have put him in the hospital unless he was refunded immediately. I found out just before my dad died from another antiques dealer, a good friend of my dad's, that this guy was shady. I showed him the coin and he put his thumbnail on the "D" to see if it would pop off. It didn't. I guess he wasn't strong enough. My dad's friend warned me about coin collecting and I completely lost interest in it for 10 years until I dug up my old childhood collection, found out about eBay and got bitten by the Bug. I've learned a great deal and have been collecting non-stop ever since. Anyway, the coin is still in its body bag and I'll keep it for educational purposes. I like to put some kind of stamp on it so that it doesn't fall into wrong hands.

A few days ago, I finally purchased a replacement 1916-D on eBay PCI (old green 10-digit) AG-3 that will be submitted to PCGS as soon as I get it in the mail. >>

Your new to this forum, so I was wondering if you have alot of knowledge about coins and counterfeits?

Was just curious because you said your dad could not 'pop the D mint mark off' with his thumb. I don't understand this. A counterfeiter added that mintmark, how could you just pop it off?

Craton · May 18, 2004 11:29AM

I got a body bag from NGC for a Franklin half. They called it "Altered Surfaces" when in reality they were die polish lines. Sent the coin to PCGS and it came back MS65.

RGL · May 18, 2004 11:36AM

Four bags from PCGS -- 1.) AT on a nicely toned 1909 VDB Lincoln (it's original). 2.) Environmental damage on 1950 Proof Jeff (I missed it, but PCGS was right). 3. -- Cleaned on an UNC 1937 Buff (beg to differ); 4.) Damage on a 1944-S Washington (I missed it) ...

poorguy · May 18, 2004 12:03PM

I just got my first BB about 3 minutes ago. I am pretty Tissed about the grades they gave the coins that slabbed also. I guess you shouldn't expect PCGS to get it right on their first try. I have heard around here that its more like a game. Hmm. Maybe I'll take my business where they take it more seriously.

1 21573245 1913 5C Type 1 USA MS65
2 21573246 1900 S$1 USA PVC
3 21573247 1881-S S$1 USA MS65
4 21573248 1899 $20 USA MS62

Date Received: 04/23/2004
Date Shipped: No Date Specified

Ok, First of all. It's not even an 1900! It's a 1900-O. Good job.
I don't have a scan of the 1900-O which was bagged for PVC but there isn't a flaw on the coin. I might be able to remove the little PVC there might be but have never had to do it before so I might post a topic or search the boards on the best way to remove PVC.
I bought the 1900-O from the coin store in the New Orleans Mint!!!!!

Ok, so I'm a little shocked right now so I am going to bed. -Peace

airplanenut · May 18, 2004 12:07PM

<< I bought the 1900-O from the coin store in the New Orleans Mint!!!!!
>>

That's no guarantee that the coin's original...

GoYankees · May 18, 2004 10:08PM

<< 

<< Twice at PCGS.

Both were in 2000 and were my very first ever submissions to a TPG.

1.) 1914-D Lincoln Cent (planchet flaw)
2.) 1916-D Mercury Dime (not genuine - added "D")

The 14-D I bought raw from eBay when I was a newbie. I paid $75. My fault, wasn't paying attention to the auction. It now resides in an ANACS holder - Fine Details NET VG 8 DAMAGED.

My dad bought the 16-D for me for $240 back in 1987. Turns out the guy he bought it from was a shady antiques dealer. My dad passed away in 1989 and until 2000 when I sent it to PCGS, I didn't realize that it was a fake. I thought I had a completed circulated Mercury dime set. I was heartbroken because my dad got me that coin. Lucky for that guy my dad passed away. If he had found out, my dad would have put him in the hospital unless he was refunded immediately. I found out just before my dad died from another antiques dealer, a good friend of my dad's, that this guy was shady. I showed him the coin and he put his thumbnail on the "D" to see if it would pop off. It didn't. I guess he wasn't strong enough. My dad's friend warned me about coin collecting and I completely lost interest in it for 10 years until I dug up my old childhood collection, found out about eBay and got bitten by the Bug. I've learned a great deal and have been collecting non-stop ever since. Anyway, the coin is still in its body bag and I'll keep it for educational purposes. I like to put some kind of stamp on it so that it doesn't fall into wrong hands.

A few days ago, I finally purchased a replacement 1916-D on eBay PCI (old green 10-digit) AG-3 that will be submitted to PCGS as soon as I get it in the mail. >>

Your new to this forum, so I was wondering if you have alot of knowledge about coins and counterfeits?

Was just curious because you said your dad could not 'pop the D mint mark off' with his thumb. I don't understand this. A counterfeiter added that mintmark, how could you just pop it off? >>

My dad's friend (another antiques dealer who knew the guy who sold me the bogus dime) tried to pop it off. This guy told me that sometimes the "D" would pop right off. As for knowledge of coins and counterfiets, I'd be bragging if I had a fifth of the coin knowledge that these forum regulars have. I don't know how to grade coins and I only submit moderns when I see that there aren't any ticks on the coin. In a recent 2004-D Peace Medal nickel PCGS submission I had one MS67 (I got lucky) and 3 MS64s. That tells you how much I know. I'll admit I know more than the average guy on the street but I'm light years from having alot of knowledge. I have leaned much but I still have alot to learn. I consider myself a "senior novice" if there's such a thing.

GoYankees · May 18, 2004 10:41PM

Just to add that there are lots of counterfeits - lots of them!!! - out there! Not to mention cleaned/whizzed/altered coins in addition to overgraded slabs!!! It's enough to make one's head spin.

I follow the guidelines of buying PCGS/NGC/ANACS and old Green PCI (10-digit serial #) only. I buy raw only from a dealer that has earned and or proven his/herself to me.

dollardude · May 18, 2004 11:51PM

<< Just to add that there are lots of counterfeits - lots of them!!! - out there! Not to mention cleaned/whizzed/altered coins in addition to overgraded slabs!!! It's enough to make one's head spin.

I follow the guidelines of buying PCGS/NGC/ANACS and old Green PCI (10-digit serial #) only. I buy raw only from a dealer that has earned and or proven his/herself to me. >>

I concur. Everyone out there, PLEASE, on key dates, DO YOUR HOMEWORK!!!!! Know the die characteristics of your key date coin and find them before making a purchase -- whether it's slabbed or not. If you're not sure, buy slabbed by PCGS/NGC/ANACS or buy from a reputable dealer. PCG/NGC/ANACS do a much better job in counterfeit detection than the other grading companies. Even then, check it anyway. Know what to look for in a counterfeit coin BEFORE you make a purchase. Here are some things to look for:

- Size -- Is it the correct size? Many counterfeits are really just intentional copies, and are marked as such and/or are different sizes.
- Weight -- Is it the correct weight per the Red Book? Some counterfeits use an improper mixture of metals, resulting in incorrect weights.
- Finish -- Does it have pot marks, strange toning, and appears weakly struck? Some counterfeits are struck with fake dies using the wrong mix of metals.
- Mint Mark -- Does it appear to be placed on intentionally, or is it the wrong size for that date? Some counterfeits botch the job by using, for example, a large "S" when a small "S" is correct.
- Die characteristics -- Do these correspond to real dies? Some counterfeits do not catch all of the details of real dies.

Woodwind · May 19, 2004 12:37AM

Out of my small number of submissions, I got two bodybags from PCGS. One for PVC on an 1882-CC Morgan Dollar (I thought MS-62), and for cleaning (old cleaning) on an 1805 Half Dollar.

I also got a bodybag from ICG on an 1882 O/S Morgan for whizzing/cleaning. This was before I knew how to identify such coins.

NoGvmnt · May 19, 2004 1:39AM

PCGS - 1864 IHC Bronze - Cleaned

PCGS - 1853 G $1 - Cleaned

PCGS - 1915s Pan-Pacific G $1 - Scratch

PCGS - 1872 G $21/2 - Rim Nicks

PCGS - 1875s 20-cent - Questionable Color

Jim

Conder101 · May 19, 2004 3:35AM

<< Was just curious because you said your dad could not 'pop the D mint mark off' with his thumb. I don't understand this. A counterfeiter added that mintmark, how could you just pop it off? >>

In many cases the added mintmark is simply held on with a tiny spot of glue. Pressure applied from the side by a strong fingernail can sometimes pop these added mintmarks right off the coin. If it doesn't, a soak in water or acetone will often dissolve the glue. Some times the glue dries out and the mintmark just falls off on its own. There is a story about a 16-D dime an ACG slab out there with the D bouncing around loose in the slab.

By the way, I am still the only person here who WANTS to get Bodybags! Prefereably with information about when they were submitted.

relayer · May 19, 2004 4:24AM

<< There is a story about a 16-D dime an ACG slab out there with the D bouncing around loose in the slab >>

I've never gotten a BB from ANACS, but pretty much have the entire "reason set" from PCGS - except PVC!

I just sold a NGC BB last week

Did you ever get a BB from ANACS, PCGS, or NGC and why?

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