Your opinion of Ebay sellers that cancels auctions appreciated

puff · May 11, 2004 3:35AM

I was watching an auction of a 1861 IHC PCGS ms65 on Ebay, (Ebay #3911473740), that I was interested in that was listed by a seller that I think post to this forum on occasion named Wayne Herndon.... There was another member that I've seen post to this forum named "Lakesammon"(sp?) that was high bidder the last time I looked yesterday..... There was a few days left before this auction ended but when I looked today the auction had been cancelled for the same reasons that I've seen numerous times on Ebay, "because the item is no longer for sale".....

My question is shouldn't a seller list that the auction might be cancelled early for reasons that would preclude his listing on Ebay? I have seen other sellers state this in their Ebay ads that the auction could be ended early because of the item being shown at shows, etcetera, which I find exceptable...... But after reading all of the ad the seller had on Ebay I saw nowhere where this might happen.

Please don't misunderstand... I am not flaming the seller here I am just asking for opinions as what should be the proper thing to do to forewarn potential bidders such as myself that the auction may end early when placing a coin for sale on Ebay.

jbsteven · May 11, 2004 3:41AM

As a dealer I would find it hard to have Ebay listings and not offer them for sale at the one or two shows a month I go to. I also offer my coins with a Buy it Now that is the opening price plus the amount of shipping (I give free shipping with Buy it Now) so anyone can buy my coins outright if they want them now instead of waiting for a auction to end in a week or week and a half.

I don't see much wrong with someone who pulls a coin from a Ebay auction. If the coin was on a no reserve on Ebay and has any bids then yes I would disagree to pull the auction if the coin was offered for sale elsewhere.

mgoodm3 · May 11, 2004 3:42AM

You can't trust either Wayne Herndon or Lakesammman. You just gotta stay away from those types.

Dave99B · May 11, 2004 3:43AM

It's legal (from an eBay position) but Sellers who do that are pathetic. If an item is misplaced, lost, etc, ...that's fine.....but just because he/she sold the item? Lame!

Of course, this is also a one way street, i.e. you can't (as a Buyer) cancel your bid in the last few minutes.

Dave

puff · May 11, 2004 3:46AM

>>>I don't see much wrong with someone who pulls a coin from a Ebay auction. If the coin was on a no reserve on Ebay and has any bids then yes I would disagree to pull the auction if the coin was offered for sale elsewhere. <<<

Thanks for your reply JB..... There were bids as mentioned in my post, and there was no reserve..... I am hoping that Wayne Herdon will see this post and maybe he can elaborate as to why the auction was cancelled.

Russ · May 11, 2004 3:48AM

I have no problem at all with a seller who cancels an auction when there is lots of time left on the clock. Many of these guys are earning their living selling coins, and I think they have every right to take an acceptable offer outside of eBay and close early.

What pisses me off are the gutless weasels who cancel no reserve auctions at the last minute because the coin didn't get bid up to where they hoped it would. Grow some balls already and take your lumps like a man.

Russ, NCNE

Dave99B · May 11, 2004 3:50AM

Russ - From a Buyer's perspective, is there really any difference?

Dave

puff · May 11, 2004 3:53AM

>>>What pisses me off are the gutless weasels who cancel no reserve auctions at the last minute because the coin didn't get bid up to where they hoped it would. Grow some balls already and take your lumps like a man.<<<

I agree Russ...... I have seen this done befre also and I agree with you..... Being a seller of cutting tools and industrial supplies and collectables on Eaby and never running a reserve I have had to take my licks many times, and I have never closed an auction early...... But keep in mind I do not sell on Ebay for a living as some do here, it is just simply to have fun and nothing more.

Russ · May 11, 2004 3:59AM

<< Russ - From a Buyer's perspective, is there really any difference? >>

There really is no difference, but that doesn't change my opinion. As long as the seller isn't pulling a no reserve auction because they didn't get what they expected, they have every right to sell elsewhere.

<< I have had to take my licks many times >>

Yeah, I took it in the shorts Saturday in several of my auctions, with a couple closing at less than half of recent market value. Remind me that in the future not to ever have auctions close the day before Mother's Day. eBay was flat dead this past weekend.

Russ, NCNE

puff · May 11, 2004 4:09AM

>>>As long as the seller isn't pulling a no reserve auction because they didn't get what they expected, they have every right to sell elsewhere.<<<

As I said above Russ this was a "no reserve" auction, and the last person I saw yesterday to have placed a bid was "lakesammon"(sp), and there were a total of 4 bids with the auction ending in a couple of days..... But there could have been other bidders after my last look yesterday.

solid · May 11, 2004 4:11AM

Although allowed by eBay, I believe it is wrong to pull an auction once there are
legitimate bids that have met a reserve, if any. This is akin to my agreeing to sell
Customer A my coin for X amount, but continuing to shop it around to see if I can
get a better offer elsewhere.

To do so is a waste of the bidders time and resources as they may have done
research prior to bidding and/or not bought other coin(s) to insure they would
have funds to buy the one they bid on, if they won.

The only exception I see as ok is when there has been a gross error in the
listing, etc. Hopefully this would occur within a day or two of the listing.

At the very least, sellers who engage in this activity should indicate in their
auction description that the coin is subject to prior sale so potential buyers
can decide for themselves if they want to chance wasting their time.

Russ' example of pulling the plug at the last moment because bids didn't reach
a certain level is obviously of the lowest form.

Ken

LAWMAN · May 11, 2004 4:19AM

I nominate them for maggothood.

JadeRareCoin · May 11, 2004 4:21AM

I only do $0.01 start, no reserve auctions on everything. Lately I have been hammered hard, but in the long run it pays off for us. We have never cancelled an auction on eBay (except once when the same coin was listed twice in error).

eBay is supposed to be an auction venue. When we buy coins on eBay, we expect an auction venue. When we sell coins, we do the same by offering true auctions. I hate wading through all of the crap on eBay to find just a few nice coins.

Summary: cancelling auctions is bad, as it hurts eBay by turning off real buyers from the online auction experience.

Russ · May 11, 2004 4:24AM

<< >>>As long as the seller isn't pulling a no reserve auction because they didn't get what they expected, they have every right to sell elsewhere.<<<

As I said above Russ this was a "no reserve" auction >>

You will note that in my first post I used the phrase "at the last minute". Closing an auction with several days on the clock is not an indication that they did so because the coin didn't meet their pricing expectation.

Russ, NCNE

dorkkarl · May 11, 2004 4:30AM

pulling an auction w/, say a day or less to go, is the sign of a gutless yellow-belly. longer than that, the seller might well have a legit reason.

K S

Dave99B · May 11, 2004 4:37AM

Well spoken, JadeRareCoin......nice to see somebody actually looking at the "long run"...

Dave

Dave99B · May 11, 2004 4:42AM

As long as the seller isn't pulling a no reserve auction because they didn't get what they expected, they have every right to sell elsewhere.

Ah, and there in lies the problem. How would you ever know the reason? You couldn’t......

Dave

prooflike · May 11, 2004 4:51AM

I think ebay should make available "number of auctions seller has cancelled early" just like they make available number of cancelled bids by buyer.

I think it is a disrespectable sales practice.

puff · May 11, 2004 5:10AM

<< I think ebay should make available "number of auctions seller has cancelled early" just like they make available number of cancelled bids by buyer.

I think it is a disrespectable sales practice. >>

prooflike.

ksteelheader · May 11, 2004 5:36AM

As long as ebay allows it, you have to be prepared for it. It's just a simple fact of life on ebay. Sitting around complaining about it will not help....Ken

Russ · May 11, 2004 5:43AM

<< As long as the seller isn't pulling a no reserve auction because they didn't get what they expected, they have every right to sell elsewhere.

Ah, and there in lies the problem. How would you ever know the reason? You couldn’t...... >>

If they yank it at the last moment, it's pretty obvious that the reason is that it didn't bring what they hoped. If they yank it with days left to go in the aution, logic dictates otherwise.

Russ, NCNE

Dave99B · May 11, 2004 5:53AM

Russ -

I'm wondering.......if that is true, exactly when do they make the big jump from "good seller" to "gutless weasel".

2 days before the end of the auction? 23 hrs? 2 hrs? 5 1/2 minutes? I don't want to end an auction and be in the latter category!

Dave

P.S. As far as showing it on Profile screen...now that's a SUPER IDEA!!!

joeyuk · May 11, 2004 6:15AM

I sold a coin last night I was expecting $1,800 for. It went from $850 to 1,800 in the last min. You have to hang in. Not only cause it's the right thing but also there can be alot of action. Listing the # of auctions pulled with less then a day is a great idea. Saying the item is subject to prior sale is another.
In general if they tell me my bid is a contract, their listing should be a contract also.

Sandhawk · May 11, 2004 6:26AM

Wayne Herndon usually has all of his ebay coins listed on his website. If someone buys the coin off of his website, he cancels the auction. (I know - I bought a Shield nickel off of his website and later in the day I was surfing on ebay and saw the coin listed there. The auction was ended shortly thereafter). If you want the coin, go to his website and buy it and then you don't have to worry about sniping!!

I have had nothing but positive experiences with Wayne Herndon!

ksteelheader · May 11, 2004 6:29AM

Wayne is a real class act. No need to say more....Ken

puff · May 11, 2004 6:34AM

Thank you for all of your opinions here.....

I think that just about sums it up for me...... But again let me repeat this one more time...... I am not trying to cause Wayne Herndon any problems here, he seems to be a well respected member in good standing on this forum, and has an excellent Ebay feedback rating, and I'm sure he had a legitimate reason for ending his auction early...... But it would have been nice if he could, or would have explained this situation here on the forum.

Boom · May 11, 2004 6:54AM

With all due respect, this could all be avoided LEGALLY one of two ways: 1) Do as JB says and start

your bidding for what you are "in for", with "Buy it now" around whatever price that may be and perhaps an added incentive to buy such as free S/H or a free bonus coin OR #2) Don't be so tight by

failing to put a reserve on items that cost you a hefty premium to begin with and risk losing your butt.
It makes no sense to try to save a few dollars on a listing and lose BIG TIME in the process!

It is far better to spring for a few dollars than to lose a bundle because you're too tight. If it meets the reserve you get that fee reimbursed.

You won't be in business long if you continue selling at a loss. Then there is the underhanded way of
doing things such as having a buddy shill for you creating a phony frenzy - worse yet, taking on a

second identity and between your buddies and your second identity, hope to catch a "live one" in the
middle - driving prices upward, bowing out at the last minute. This is a reality! Friends look out for

one another on a regular basis and that's just the way it is. One hand washes the other.

Listen, everyone shops around, looking for bargains. It makes no sense to bid at all until the last
possible moment in order to try to snatch something up for next to nothing. Some overly eager

newbie starts bidding like a madman right out the blocks, gets caught up in one of these scenarios
and the seller is loving it when his auction which starts at 1 cent with no reserve is already at the
price he wants on the very first day. This does go on. Ebay is interested in ONE thing-MONEY!

From the honest sellers' standpoint he is scared stiff that he will lose his Ace. Decisions-decisions..
Then there are people that own shops and someone comes in and buys the coin thereby killing the auction. All the complaining in the world will change none of this.

Speaking for myself...I've taken my lumps and I also have pulled the plug at times. I don't like to but before I give my goods away, the listing will be cancelled, especially if we are talking about significant losses.

I'm STILL trying to come up with the perfect solution and think I've come up with it. List the item correctly. If it sell-GREAT. If it doesn't- Oh well...JMHO

Lakesammman · May 11, 2004 7:07AM

You can't trust either Wayne Herndon or Lakesammman. You just gotta stay away from those types.

Hey....where are the smiley faces??

Agree with above. I have no objection to someone pulling a coin if it hasn't met reserve. What bothers me is being high bidder on a no reserve coin and I have no clue what the retail price is because the guy can't be reached for 48 hours. It only hurts their business and reputation because I'll never bid on their stuff again. I'm sure others feel the same way.

lathmach · May 11, 2004 7:18AM

I saw This Auction on Ebay and added it to my watch list.
When I had a chance to look at it again I saw the auction was closed.
The Seller had received an Email from another Seated Specialist telling him it was an "S" mint coin, so he shut down the auction. Indeed it is a San Francisco mint coin, and I affirmed so much to the seller. The Seller told me he'd gotten some real ugly emails because he closed the auction.
I wonder how one of those potential buyers would have felt if they'd got the coin and not found out it was an "S" until it was too late to get a refund.
The mintmark on this is small and located at the feather tip.
The mint mark was probably not visible or only partly visible, so the seller believed it was a Philadelphia minted coin.
The date placement and shape of the bottom of the 9 are the characteristics that allow the coins' mint of manufacture to be determined without seeing the mintmark.

Ray

ohbaby · May 11, 2004 7:19AM

I avoid those sellers. Come to think of it I no longer buy coins on eBay. I bid at BM, Heritage, ANR.

IrishMike · May 11, 2004 7:23AM

It's happened to me, I just don't bid on the seller's coins anymore. Not a matter of what is allowed on Ebay, its the principal. The coin in question was not mislisted or lost, it was sold at a coin show. I'd feel the same way if the seller had it listed on his website. It's either for sale on Ebay or it isn't, make that decision before you list it.

nencoin · May 11, 2004 7:27AM

It is not feasible for most dealers, ourselves included, to have exclusive inventory for eBay. The majority of the items we list on eBay are also listed and available for purchase elsewhere, such as our website, coin publication ads, coin shows, etc. We won't hesitate to end a coin on eBay if we have sold it elsewhere, assuming there are no bids. If eBay suddenly disallowed the ending of auctions early, then I can assure you that you'd see ALOT fewer coins listed on eBay...while it may be a bummer to see an auction end early on a coin you have an interest in, what if the coin was never listed in the first place? Then you'd have ZERO shot of buying it.

I'm not trying to be a smart-alec, but I think most of the sellers who end opening bid auctions early do so simply because they've sold the coin elsewhere, and I just don't see any problem with doing so, regardless of how close it is to the end of the auction (if the coin sells elsewhere, the coin sells elsewhere...what does the timing matter?).

Again, my opinion (and practice) is based solely on auction with NO bids.

Chris

toothpuller · May 11, 2004 7:31AM

Wayne usually starts his IHCs at the price he wants for the coin, more like a retail sale than an auction. If you bid the starting amount it will almost always get you the coin.

If the coin in question is the one that I'm thinking of, it was priced at $1050. to start and was listed at least two other times with no bids.

He must have sold the coin off ebay.

puff · May 11, 2004 8:17AM

<< Wayne usually starts his IHCs at the price he wants for the coin, more like a retail sale than an auction. If you bid the starting amount it will almost always get you the coin.

If the coin in question is the one that I'm thinking of, it was priced at $1050. to start and was listed at least two other times with no bids.

He must have sold the coin off ebay. >>

I have no idea as to what this coin was originally listed at as for as the starting price is concerned, but it had "4" bids on it, and when I saved it to "my Ebay" it was at over the $1050.00 you have quoted above, and it was a 7 day listing with 2-3 days left on that listing...... My original question was as why shouldn't the seller place in his ad like I've seen so many others do, that if the coins sells on his website, are at a live coin show, then the coin will be no longer up for auction on Ebay?

Also in my opinion I think he also had the option like many other sellers do of listing the coin with the "minimal" price he is willing to except instead of just canceling the auction with no warning whatsoever......

Again this is just my opinion, but on the otherhand I think I have raised some valid points here.

BTW...... It is very rare when I have bought, or bid a coin from Ebay with this being one of the reasons.

stman · May 11, 2004 8:32AM

<< BTW...... It is very rare when I have bought, or bid a coin from Ebay with this being one of the reasons. >>

Agreed, among other reasons that Boom mentioned.... shilling, having your friends bid, alternate ID, etc. etc. Some want their cake and eat it too. List it on ebay, website, coin shows etc. I agree, if a bidder retracts a bid it goes in his profile. So it's only fair if a seller retracts an auction, it should be the same.

BUT, that probably won't happen since many people simply won't list their coins... hence ebay won't make the almighty dollar. And please don't forget the trouble it is for exposing their coins to the world. They have to ship and charge you for all the tedious expenses. I'm not talking about this seller you mention Puff, just in general. Please don't get me going on all the expenses these sellers have for shipping their coins, and their reasons for charging double.

puff · May 11, 2004 8:37AM

<< Please don't get me going on all the expenses these sellers have for shipping their coins, and their reasons for charging double.

>>

I won't you old grouch!

BTW...... Wait til you see the new 1942-S PCGS ms66 Walker I am about to receive from Pinnacle tomorrow.

100proof1957 · May 11, 2004 8:39AM

sold some stamps on flea bay today for 25% of face !
my fault for starting them at the wrong time.
could have cancelled the auctions.
could have taken em to the local dealer and got 75 %.
wasnt alot of money and probably gave some people alot of joy !
no sweat,next time they might bid what the stuff is really worth !

Proof

lathmach · May 11, 2004 8:57AM

<< sold some stamps on flea bay today for 25% of face !
my fault for starting them at the wrong time.
could have cancelled the auctions.
could have taken em to the local dealer and got 75 %.
wasnt alot of money and probably gave some people alot of joy !
no sweat,next time they might bid what the stuff is really worth !

Proof >>

I take it the stamps were not used.
I used to buy those old unused stamps FROM stamp dealers in sheets at about 75% of face and put them on coin club newsletters. A lot of them would be from the 1940's and 1950's.
Glad I never got into stamp collecting.

Ray

wayneherndon · May 11, 2004 9:50AM

Hi puff,

I currently have an ad running in Coin World. One of the items listed was the 1861 Indian Cent. Someone called and bought the coin so I ended the ebay auction. At the time, the coin had no bids on ebay as shown in the auction history here. Had it had bids, I would have not ended the auction and it would have sold to the eBay bidder.

I used to put in my auctions that the coin was available for on my website and was subject to prior sale. eBay warned me against it saying it was against the rules to mention the website in the text of the ad.

Hope that answers all your questions. If not, just let me know.

WH

Russ · May 11, 2004 9:57AM

<< There was another member that I've seen post to this forum named "Lakesammon"(sp?) that was high bidder the last time I looked yesterday..... >>

<< At the time, the coin had no bids on ebay as shown in the auction history here. >>

I guess there must be some confusion as to what coin is being discussed.

Russ, NCNE

IronmanDuke · May 11, 2004 11:35AM

I polled the board once about sniping, with the result implying that sniping is an artform practices by the strong of heart and posessing a cable modem. A lot of the auctions I'm watching have all the action in the last 20 seconds.

Sellers who cancel early because they fear the "no reserve" will be too low miss that opportunity. I echo the earlier comment of gutless. At times, the end-of-auction bidding has demonstrated "irrational exuberance."

Your opinion of Ebay sellers that cancels auctions appreciated

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