Some seated coin results from Heritage Auction
roadrunner
Posts: 28,371 ✭✭✭✭✭
I did not attend the sale, but here are a few PR's that really caught my eye. Opinons from someone who was there would be welcome.
1867-s half PCGS MS66 - $23,000 (ex-Eliasberg). This coin sold within the past 1-2 years at a Baltimore auction for around half that price. The new price is very surprising in that this was not a knock your socks off type coin. In fact I was considering having a dealer bid on the coin for me but he absolutely did not like it! Pop 1 at PCGS with 5 - NGC 65's behind it. Like the half dime, dime, and quarter, perenially underrated date. The price might reflect some Registry set collectors fighting it out. It only takes 2 looking for the best graded.
1886 PCGS PF67 CAM half - $13,800. The cameos are only around 2/3 there due to the bullseye toning. Seemed a bit on the dark side to bring over $8-10K. Possibly had PF68 surfaces and an upgrade at NGC was bid for.
1874 PCGS MS65 half - $23,000. Colorful looking but not monstrous.
No doubt original. These are usually in the $10-15K range. It didn't appear to have MS66 surfaces but that had to be on someone's mind. This would seem like strong 66 money to me.
Pair of 1840 NGC MS66 dimes - $4500 and $2800. A good comparison set. The higher priced one was very lightly toned and possibly original but appeared to have more light scatter marks. The 2nd one had some blotchy obverse toning. A good example of a sight unseen coin vs a sight seen coin. One price very strong, the other weak.
1874-cc dime PCGS F-12. $13,800. Went for 2x Coin World trends.
I don't see this as a VF candidate but the obv details seem to hint at VF rather than Fine. Liberty's legs are well defined and not flattened together as you would expect. The reverse is more like a VG+ or a weak Fine, normal for many 19th century dates. I would think the strong price was just due to the fact that these are just not out there, esp. without damage. Name your price. This is the key date to the set (forget the unique 73cc). Name your price. Heck, this date is probably 10x rarer or even 20x rarer than any other key date in the 20th century. And to think, back in the 1970's you probably could have bought a FINE for $1000 (or half that if you cherried it based on CW pricing).
1854-0 Huge "O" 25c PCGS VF. $4830. Holy moley! Now that's a strong price. Many specialists feel this variety is overrated. Maybe so. But it is very interesting to say the least. Where else can you buy a branch mint coin with a mint mark that looks like "Quasimodo?"
Realized 50% over Coin World Trends. And this was not an upper end VF worthy of an upgrade.
roadrunner
1867-s half PCGS MS66 - $23,000 (ex-Eliasberg). This coin sold within the past 1-2 years at a Baltimore auction for around half that price. The new price is very surprising in that this was not a knock your socks off type coin. In fact I was considering having a dealer bid on the coin for me but he absolutely did not like it! Pop 1 at PCGS with 5 - NGC 65's behind it. Like the half dime, dime, and quarter, perenially underrated date. The price might reflect some Registry set collectors fighting it out. It only takes 2 looking for the best graded.
1886 PCGS PF67 CAM half - $13,800. The cameos are only around 2/3 there due to the bullseye toning. Seemed a bit on the dark side to bring over $8-10K. Possibly had PF68 surfaces and an upgrade at NGC was bid for.
1874 PCGS MS65 half - $23,000. Colorful looking but not monstrous.
No doubt original. These are usually in the $10-15K range. It didn't appear to have MS66 surfaces but that had to be on someone's mind. This would seem like strong 66 money to me.
Pair of 1840 NGC MS66 dimes - $4500 and $2800. A good comparison set. The higher priced one was very lightly toned and possibly original but appeared to have more light scatter marks. The 2nd one had some blotchy obverse toning. A good example of a sight unseen coin vs a sight seen coin. One price very strong, the other weak.
1874-cc dime PCGS F-12. $13,800. Went for 2x Coin World trends.
I don't see this as a VF candidate but the obv details seem to hint at VF rather than Fine. Liberty's legs are well defined and not flattened together as you would expect. The reverse is more like a VG+ or a weak Fine, normal for many 19th century dates. I would think the strong price was just due to the fact that these are just not out there, esp. without damage. Name your price. This is the key date to the set (forget the unique 73cc). Name your price. Heck, this date is probably 10x rarer or even 20x rarer than any other key date in the 20th century. And to think, back in the 1970's you probably could have bought a FINE for $1000 (or half that if you cherried it based on CW pricing).
1854-0 Huge "O" 25c PCGS VF. $4830. Holy moley! Now that's a strong price. Many specialists feel this variety is overrated. Maybe so. But it is very interesting to say the least. Where else can you buy a branch mint coin with a mint mark that looks like "Quasimodo?"
Realized 50% over Coin World Trends. And this was not an upper end VF worthy of an upgrade.
roadrunner
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Comments
It is scarce, not rare.
Ray
I would still love to own a MS63 or higher specimen of this variety.
If any exist in UNC, there cannot be than you can count on one hand.
roadrunner
A couple years or so ago Larry Briggs told me I should buy up any of these I could find as there was someone with deep pockets beginning to hoard them.
Since then the price has dramatically increased. The last one I bought was an AG for $38. One in about the same condition
just sold on Ebay for $249.
I see Large O 1854 Quarters on Ebay and at coin shows listed as the Huge O all the time, with high prices on them. I often wonder if the sellers are really that dumb or if they're hoping the buyers are dumb.
Ray
LSCC #1395
NGC
I was surprised to see the bidding going up to $7K(if I remember correctly) and more surprised when I realized it didn't meet reserve.
I was amazed at the price of that dime......I figured $8K to $9K tops. I figured wrong.
Osburn had two examples about a month ago. One was EF / net VF30 and he was asking about $16,000. The other was AU / net strong EF.....they were from the recent private listing in Coin World. Both sold very quickly.
How about the price of the Heritage auction 1867 MS66 "Pop 1" PCGS Trime at $18400. I didn't see the coin in hand but the Heritage pictures show it to be a dreary perhaps overgraded coin. Despite my avid interest in gem trimes this coin seemed unispirational and the description in the catalogue didn't promise any surprises.
I am blown away by this price for a admittedly scarce example of an underappreciated series. Was this a Registry must have or something new in valuations?
That "conserved" 1847 HALF DIME in 66PL makes no sense either....unless someone considers it a possible proof. But if that were the case, it should have sold. Nothing special about 1847 half dimes imo unless you are talking proofs or MS67/68.
In 25 years of cherrying I have only found one 54-0 Huge O 25c.
roadrunner
Re: the 1867 3CS MS66 PCGS.
I take your point but given your arguement:
Why the underbider?
Regarding grades and rarity; coins should be graded according to standards. If not every POP 1 should be perfect.
BTW: Did you like the coin
I know you bought that 67-s half out of that sale a few years back and sold it soon after. I should have added that I did not fully agree with the description my dealer friend provided for me after I had seen the coin in person in your case at the next show. I felt the coin was decent for the grade and desireable. It only brought $8250 at Eliasberg so even at that sale it was looked upon as a shot 66 coin. Nagle's expertise is without question, though I would have to wonder why he didn't purchase the coin for his client at that same auction as the coin went too cheap for a pop 1 rarity. And it wasn't for lack of money either! You are certainly right about this being a friggin rare coin. I'm just not sure why it didn't bring more at the previous 3 appearances if everyone felt so highly about this peice. Maybe a few other people have woken up in the past 2 years and decided to participate in the seated half market.
As far as the mintage of 1 million+ on the 67-s half it is meaningless.
This is one of the issues that has kept seated coins down for so long. The only thing that matters is survival rates not mintages. And the coins of the 1840's to early 1870's did not survive as a rule, branch mints especially. Go out and try to find some gem 1840's or New Orleans' seated quarters with those big mintages....you won't find many or ANY. An 1870-s half has over 1 MILL minted...but I have never seen a gem in person and by pop at most 2 currently are around in MS65. FORGET THE MINTAGES when dealing with 19th century coinage.....SURVIVAL RATES are what count...esp with the branch mints and the early pre-1853 Philly coins. And there is not always a rule as to what survived and what didn't. One has to research each date separately. Many of these coins were shipped overseas or disappeared in silver melts or also just weren't saved because no one cared about branch mint issues.
A very low mintage is no guarantee of anything either. And with coins with only a few high grade pieces known with orig mintages in the 100,000-Millions, you have to almost always have to forget about strike as there are no other coins to buy. You want to buy a fully struck 67-s quarter or half? Forget it, probably wasn't ever made. I know for certain that the quarter is not available fully struck.
For every 20 gem 1921-s Walkers, there is one gem 1870-s half. You have to give up something in your expectations to buy that one gem when it shows.....or go buy other series where the supply is more available.
roadrunner
I briefly thought of resurrecting my project after you had the half but passed on the idea figuring that rounding up the very best dime and half dime again would take some serious time. You only get one chance at a lot of these coins.
roadrunner
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
Roadrunner did you miss Ladyships question to you on this thread?
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=286744
A comment about the sole PCGS MS66 three cent silver. Yup, it's the only one. But what about the 4 NGC MS66's and the 6 or so MS65's backing up that lone PCGS 66? I cannot dispute it being the only one, but I feel very uncomfortable when I have that many potential suitors right next to me. No one can tell if those 4 NGC pieces (if there are truly 4) are worthy of crossing. Once the owners see the new $15K+ price, I'm sure some of those 65's and 66's will be going for a resubmission. I'd feel much better knowing I had the only 66 and a single 65 or no 65's from either service, were on my tail.
One thing in favor of the PCGS MS65 & 66's for this date is that the pop has not changed in over 5-6 years. That's a big plus when pops don't change one iota.
roadrunner