Do the "insiders" or experts on this board wish us newbies would just go away?

perro · January 20, 2004 11:55AM

I ask this question because I see that most people who are inexperienced with coins are treated with contempt at best, and outward hostility & condescention (sp?) quite often? This is a serious question.

Russ · January 20, 2004 11:57AM

It really depends on the specific newbie.

Russ, NCNE

agentjim007 · January 20, 2004 11:58AM

Your being paranoid.

Louis · January 20, 2004 11:58AM

I don't think anybody who acts reasonably here should go away.

rottnrog · January 20, 2004 11:59AM

Gee's, I'm a "Newbie" and I don't get that impression!

ElectricEye · January 20, 2004 12:00PM

I ask this question because I see that most people who are inexperienced with coins are treated with contempt at best, and outward hostility & condescention (sp?) quite often? This is a serious question.

I haven't a clue and "insiders" or experts only treat me with contempt 30% of the time.

mojorizn · January 20, 2004 12:01PM

I know that it can often seem that the opinions of the newbies get passed over (or even outright ignored). I don't think it is intentional. Often, the folks who have been around here for a long time have an audience in mind when they post, usually a group with a specialty, or a select few whom they regularly converse with.

You'll always have the abrasive individuals who are less than tolerant, but on the whole, most here are more than happy to aid a newbie whenever possible, even though they may seem OVERLY focused at times.

the Mo of Jo

wingedliberty · January 20, 2004 12:03PM

Welcome to the forums.

Coinosaurus · January 20, 2004 12:05PM

The "insiders", when they stop to think about it, understand that it is not really worth being "inside" without a lot of new blood perpetually coming into the hobby. Some dealers "get" this better than others.

As for being "inside", it is all a matter of degree. You may be more "inside" than you think

There are way too many quotation marks in this post.

nccoin · January 20, 2004 12:07PM

I am fairly new to the boards but have not been treated that way. Hopefully some of the "vets" will give you a warm welcome and put that to rest.

Blade · January 20, 2004 12:07PM

I've never noticed that. Like Russ said in jest, depends on the newbie. In other words, contribute in a positive way, with a good attitude and you won't have a problem.

Bear · January 20, 2004 12:07PM

The statement isnt true you know. It just take a little time for newbies to establish

that they are nice people. After 6 months you are considered a regular. Knowlege will come to most

in time. Good manners, politeness and integrety are expecrted right from the start. Actually

we like new people on the Forum , it keeps things interesting. Remember everyone is an expert at

something. Its that range of knowlege about many things as well as a love of coins that makes this place

rather special. Hang in there Newbies, all will be well. Bear

JrGMan2004 · January 20, 2004 12:09PM

<< ask this question because I see that most people who are inexperienced with coins are treated with contempt at best, and outward hostility & condescention (sp?) quite often? This is a serious question. >>

At times I have felt this too... there are the exceptions of course, I've made several great friends on these forums, but it seems that many times, I get ignored by most of the rest of the board...

ElectricEye · January 20, 2004 12:11PM

we were all newbies at one time

now, perro is a member, russ is a member, I was a veteran but now I'm a collector...whatever that means

Jody526 · January 20, 2004 12:14PM

There are far fewer experts here than you may think. (and that goes for me too)
And whether you leave or stay, is not up to the insiders, it's up to you.
If you are learning and this board is helping you enjoy your hobby, then stick around. If you find it too silly and childish, there are other forums where you can discuss numismatic topics.

Deadhorse · January 20, 2004 12:19PM

I believe it depends on how the "newbie" starts out. You started out trying to peddle some junk junk that you either got taken on or were trying to take somebody else on.

You won't fool many people around here and BS is quickly seen through.

I seem to remember you were telling us your life story while trying to sell your coins. That was way off base and your response to certain people was a bit out of line as well. I remember a long thread on the BST board and at the time I decide to ignore you.

Since then, you've changed your style and people have been more receptive.

It's all in how you approach people. Most everyone around here has been most gracious and I've made a few friends along the way. I hope to make a few more in person at the Houston show this weekend.

I very much value this board and the people around here, I've learned alot and I'm still learning. Treat people well and you will get the same in return. No point in focusing on a couple of jerks who are always negative, thankfully at least one of them has been banned.

Treat people the way you would like to be treated and you will find a wealth of information and for the most part, some very nice and intelligent folks who hang around here.

Russ · January 20, 2004 12:24PM

Deadhorse,

Did I ever mention that I think you have the second best forum avatar of all of them?

Russ, NCNE

vrtech99 · January 20, 2004 12:32PM

I've been here 7 months and i still get ignored, insulted, harrassed, cursed, called names, threatened, scolded, hammered and did i mention ignored, at least 99 % of the time, doesn't ever change....

RYK · January 20, 2004 12:33PM

Deadhorse is dead-on. We were all newbies once; do not despair.

It is somewhat difficult to break in. If you ask interesting and provocative questions, offer thoughtful and considerate answers, show humility, respect, and a sense of humor, and are able to give back to the forum, as well as take away, you will be readily accepted by the community. I have made quite a few friends here, and this forum has had a significant positive impact on me as a collector.

Stuart · January 20, 2004 12:34PM

Perro: Welcome to the forums !!

Wolfy00002 · January 20, 2004 12:36PM

They haven't ever made me feel like that, even though they all know that I know squat about coins. Bunch of great people around here.

'cept for that whiney vrtech99 fella. But you'll get used to him.

Bochiman · January 20, 2004 12:53PM

Perro,

You are looking at it wrong. Deadhorse, as has been said, is correct in the outlook.

But, after seeing some posts that you have put here in the coin forum, concerning gold outlooks (not gold coins, but gold in general....and after there were already threads on it very recently if a search were done prior to a new thread) and some members suggestions to put that in the open forum rather than in the coin forum....well, you took offense because you thought they were telling you what to do and you didn't want that.
But, it was a valid suggestion, imho, as it was just about putting the conversation in a different area. No one told you not to discuss that.

Anyway, live and learn and enjoy. Don't take this forum too personally as there are always people who won't agree with you and people get more outspoken on the net than they do in person.

jim · January 20, 2004 1:10PM

For what it's worth, I've been on this forum for over two years with less than 100 posts and still consider myself a newbie. Accordingly I treat everyone with the respect that is deserved and in-turn receive the same.

And for that, I thank everyone here.....

BigE · January 20, 2004 1:16PM

Perro, everyone around here gets a wedgie sooner or later, just don't forget to pull the underwear out of your butt

------------------------------------BigE

08HALA20 · January 20, 2004 1:32PM

I am a newbie here and never got that impression. There may be some sharp or harsh??? comments but there is a lot of truth in those responses. There is 1 thing I learned from sportscard trading is that there are NO instant experts and even experts will tell you they are still learning. READ READ READ, LEARN LEARN LEARN, PATIENCE PATIENCE PATIENCE. Sometimes newbie's impatience (me included) can be irritating and frustrating to a longtime learned 'expert'. I have received nothing but good wisdom and encouragement. Be patient and you will see the blessing this forum can be.
Joe (rookie)

Bear · January 20, 2004 1:37PM

If I had my way, I would clear out all the people

and just leave us bears.

BigE · January 20, 2004 1:39PM

Bears need trees when dogs chase them--------------------BigE

cladking · January 20, 2004 1:42PM

It's human nature to be slow to accept the new guy. We fear he will upset the
status quo and we have nothing invested in him. It always takes a little time for
most people to feel really comfortable with the newcomer. Don't sweat it. Just
stick around, make a spot for yourself, and try not to feel ill at ease. Some people
like me just take a little longer to fit in.

...and some people may never get used to it.

Bear · January 20, 2004 1:44PM

Hey, were tough on this Forum. We got macho, muscles and

mustaches and thats just the women folk.

RonMan · January 20, 2004 2:06PM

<< Perro, everyone around here gets a wedgie sooner or later, just don't forget to pull the underwear out of your butt------------------------------------BigE >>

fountainheadgold · January 20, 2004 2:31PM

Perro you are parinoid (sp) I have always felt welcome here except once

oreville · January 20, 2004 2:32PM

Perro: Welcome aboard. I don't agree with your theory. Sure a few will be guarded. But not the general rule at all.

If you ever saw dorkarl and I banter with each other as oldies, you might reconsider your thoughts on this matter. You might want to stay as a newbie forever!

DMWJR · January 20, 2004 3:21PM

We are all newbies of a varying sort, so no finger pointing.

Deadhorse · January 20, 2004 3:27PM

<< Deadhorse,

Did I ever mention that I think you have the second best forum avatar of all of them?

Russ, NCNE >>

No Russ, you haven't. But I know the reason why you feel that way. Strangely enough, I've had two different people PM me and ask where I got it, they both said they thought it was a coin they once owned. Did you sell it sometime back?

BTW, awhile back I bought some raw toned Morgans from you on the bay of E. You may or may not recall.

Anyway, you added your belief of what you thought they would grade on most of them on the auction page. Well, I had most of them slabbed, you were either right on or too conservative by a point, in one case 2 points!!!!

I must say, those have turned out to be a great deal!!! I think if you saw a couple of them now, you'd want them back.......

A few of them are going to go to the Money Show in Houston this weekend. I believe I can sell either of a couple of them and recoup not only my bidding fees but the costs of the slabbing for the whole group as well.

I probably should have PM'd you with this info as now everyone will be checking your auctions out.........oops!

I'll show them to JBStevens, if I tell him what I paid for a couple of them, he'll think I'm lying.

Anyway, thanks for the icon, I think I'll keep using it as long as you don't mind. Got any more of those blue and purple toners you think are 63 left? NGC thought 64 on those two. Remember the dark blue/black crescent you thought might go as high as 64, NGC said 66 on that one, OH YEAH!!!

I feel like I owe you a favor, maybe some day it will be the other way around.

Time for a group hug..............

perro · January 20, 2004 3:41PM

Thank you for all your responses, but I have one comment for Deadhorse because you are misrepresenting me. I was a brand new PCGS member and looked around the site and saw the buy & sell coins forum. I thought, how cool--a forum that you can talk to people and trade and sell, etc. I was excited because I didn't know many ways to sell coins except eBay. I was 100 times greener than I am today. I purchased a lot of coins, and honestly thought they were beautiful. I still do, but I didn't realize that they were too modern. I also knew nothing about grading companies, so I thought I had a great collection. I was starting to buy & sell and thought I might make a little money on the lot. I forget exactly what happened, but someone said something about my typing or something like that, and I logically responded that I couldn't type and had to use a voice activated system (still using it BTW). Immediately I was pounced upon and called everything in the book, lead by Lucy Bop (I think that's her name) as being a fake who was using (by lying about injuries) sympathy to sell a lot of junk. However if that was my intention, I most certainly would have mentioned that I was dying of cancer with a 2 & 5 year old and my wife of 10 years, nor did I mention that I have a herniated disc in my neck and in my lower back, nor did I mention that I have peripheral neuropathy, a neurological disease which creates great pain and spreads throughout your entire body. I also didn't say a word about the fact that I have arthritis in my ankles, knees, hips, lower back, shoulders, and hands. I said nothing of the migraine headaches that I have at least two times a week and the rest the time, a permanent bad headache-- this was due to what the neurologist called "cervical radiculopathy", where the crushed disc crushes your nerve. I also forgot to mention another neurological disease, which is still in the syndrome stage, and of course incurable, and is so painful it has journey to the brink of suicide several times. In fact, I just spent this last Christmas Eve -- after sending my family to my in-laws -- sitting on the kitchen floor weeping with a razor blade to my wrists, and praying for God to help me keep my sanity. I foolishly forgot to mention that I was having seizures, was bedridden and most of the time, had to use a walker because every time I stood up I would fall down. I think I can stop there.

Now if I was trying to come onto the boards and use ailments to draw sympathy so that I could sell a bunch of trash, would I not certainly mention these things? Or does it make more sense to you that I was green as could be, AND I ANSWERED A QUESTION which logically let me mentioning the speaking device that I am using right now? Nevertheless, I was called things such as a shameless huckster, numerous swear words. One person said that he hoped that I would rot in hell. In short, I was quickly attacked and verbally crucified. So much so that the moderator had to come in and erase the entire thread. I had no idea that there were such strong feelings about good graders an The only grader I knew about was PCGS until I receive those coins. I had no idea that the graders of my coins made them worthless. Up until that point, I thought I had a gold mine, quite luckily, at an unbelievably excellent price. The forum was right about the value of the coins (a few of them were worth some money, but not many. And yes I did get ripped off, but I didn't know it until I tried to sell the coins after the aforementioned fiasco at our around the values listed on this web site and on ecoins.com,or something like that.

In conclusion, you could only say that I came off wrong IF I was lying and trying to knowingly rip you off. If I wasn't, then my introduction was actually quite innocent, albeit naïve -- but naïveté of coins is certainly not a sin worthy of sending me to hell, along with all the curses, thrashings, and other nice treatment that I was given. I was truly honestly shocked and left rather quickly, realizing that this certainly was no place for me to be, especially while I was in the last stages of dying and trying to figure out ways to make money for my wife and children. Again, that is another thing I most surely should have said had I been trying to be criminal in my behavior. I believe I've made my point. I take my relationship with God extremely seriously, and value honesty intensely. And being an ordained minister I've always tried to keep myself above reproach, though I fail as we all do. This was not one of those situations of failure, and all of the people that cursed me the hell and everything else ought to be ashamed of themselves.

cladking · January 20, 2004 3:49PM

<< I was 100 times greener than I am today. I purchased a lot of coins, and honestly thought they were beautiful. I still do, but I didn't realize that they were too modern. >>

Can you explain "too modern" please.

oreville · January 20, 2004 3:58PM

Wow....

Perro, make every day count! Give your kids and wife a hug every day!

Spinynorman · January 20, 2004 3:59PM

<< posted by rottnrog: Gee's, I'm a "Newbie" and I don't get that impression! >>

oreville · January 20, 2004 4:10PM

Rottnrog is a veteran ebayer chatroom poster who knows his error coins in his sleep!

We are very lucky to have him aboard here!

Sequitur · January 20, 2004 4:12PM

I was dying of cancer with a 2 & 5 year old and my wife of 10 years . . . herniated disc in my neck and in my lower back . . . peripheral neuropathy, a neurological disease which creates great pain and spreads . . . arthritis in my ankles, knees, hips, lower back, shoulders, and hands . . . migraine headaches . . . "cervical radiculopathy" . . . another neurological disease . . . incurable . . . brink of suicide . . . sitting on the kitchen floor weeping with a razor blade to my wrists . . . seizures . . . bedridden . . . walker . . . . I think I can stop there.

If all this is true, what compels you to discuss all of this here, amongst a group of people you don't know, a group of people who gather to discuss coins? I'm a recent addition to these parts, and I can't fathom posting something like this -- either now or ten years from now.

perro · January 20, 2004 4:12PM

This again may be an ignorance on my part, but it seemed that the new coins, 1980 and forward, didn't sell as well as older ones. I'm still learning much, and hope to live to learn more. There could of course be many factors they didn't sell, such as being in third rate slabs (as I said that I was unaware of the difference at the time). But that wasn't my point--it was that they all attacked me as a liar, fake and huckster when I was not. I just knew close to nothing. Now I know just a little more--that's about it. Severe pain takes much of my energies (while dealing with my lovely wee ones & best wife in the world). That takes most of my time. But I've been posting a little more lately because the pain is so bad that I am looking for learning AND distraction. And I'm not selling anything to anybody here, nor will I ever try again, so I'm not looking for any sympathy. God gives you a life and you have to do as much for him as you can and make the best of what you have. Love your wife & kids with a passion--that's what really counts. In the end, that will be the point that mattered the most to us. That's why I kiss and hug my wife and kids and tell them that I love them about 100 times a day, and get on the ground and play with them as much as possible -- and as I said, with all the pain that takes about everything I have. sorry for the meandering -- it's getting late, I'm rambling, and I'm going to bed. Goodnight to all and pleasant dreams.

perro · January 20, 2004 4:16PM

I merely posted it to defend myself against the untruth that dead horse spoke about me. Look up his post concerning me, and re-read my post and you will understand -- maybe. As for being that transparent, it's very easy to strangers because they don't know me, where I live, etc. so to me it makes no difference. To each his own

LucyBop · January 20, 2004 4:37PM

you lying toad, I never said you were fake....

liar........

i did make remarks about the garbage you tried to scam people with...

stman · January 20, 2004 4:45PM

TWQG · January 20, 2004 4:50PM

LucyBop · January 20, 2004 5:02PM

The threads where Perro got hamered must have been deleted because I can't find them... I did find this one:

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=225238&highlight_key=y

Here he is selling coins, this is the same post that was on the thread that got deleted, I remember without a doubt telling him that
the Franklin he mentions is hardly rare.... I never called him a fake or liar at that time...

I do recall other people asking questions about some of these items and ol Perro getting very defensive and then he had one horror story after another, sick family, deaths, all kinds of stuff, I remember there being a new saga of tragedies with every post...

Its not for me to say if that stuff was true or not....

But I remember many of the members thinking this was yet another huckester, shyster, scammer, hoodwinker, you name it....

In spite of all that, the people here will move on....

I don't buy into this 'insiders' crap.... its a big sticky pile...... atleast where I am concerned, I will welcome and treat any new person with respect till they flame me.... And many new people on these boards will atest to that, We got a new Merc kiddy-o that I welcomed with open arms for example.......... But there have been many others..

Perro on the other hand got very disrespectful after my post about why this particular Franklin isn't rare at all, in its NTC holder....

Sequitur · January 20, 2004 5:16PM

one horror story after another, sick family, deaths, all kinds of stuff, I remember their being a new saga of tragedies with every post...

This evening's post, with that litany of horrors, is simply too much. Saga, indeed . . . .

stman · January 20, 2004 5:40PM

Ah yes... Lucy, is this the one that bought that group on ebay, and copied the ebay add he bought it from. Then in turn posted it on the BST? I may be wrong here so please correct me if I am.

Deadhorse · January 20, 2004 5:49PM

Lucy is right on with this, I got caught up in reading that saga/drama and the deeper it got, the worse it got. Also the more unbelievable it got.

Perro, I spoke no "untruth" about you, then or now. Not many people use that word 'round here pardner. Basically you are calling me a liar.

Considering the source, I'm not sweating it a bit. Lucy was all over that thread and she was right and you were just defensive.

You came accross as someone who had just learned he had been ripped off, but considering your health and family problems you were claiming, you seemed as if you were hoping one of us would take those coins off your hands out of sympathy/charity.

Too many sharp people here who have heard every sob story in the book. Your story may well be true, but it had no bearing on selling your coins.

I doubt you will find a more charitable group anywhere on the net than around here, but not when you come off with all this sadness in your first few posts.

Had you checked here before you bought the overpriced moderns in third tier slabs, we would have all told you to stay away from that deal and also, considering your health, we would have told you to stay away from coins alltogether. This is not a get rich quick scheme.

I think all the veterans here have and do make money on coins, but we paid for our tuition dearly and it takes time.

You shouldn't be investing in anything except perhaps gold/silver for the short term given the short time you claimed to have had.

Now, I already told you that you have changed your approach to others and that is why people are responding to you in a positive light.

Don't go back to the level of your first posts, don't step on Lucy's blue suede shoes and don't call me a liar.

The first rule of holes is "when you are in one, stop digging".

LucyBop · January 20, 2004 6:29PM

BTW, I'd like to address the opening line of this thread...

I don't consider myself a "insider". I actually think I'm a outsider, the only one here whom loves and lives a lifestyle from the 1950s..
I don't see myself as no expert.. I do feel I've got a good grasp on two maybe three particular series of coins, Franklins being the first one.

Now the question of Newbies...

I personaly wish many more would come and share... I don't see a newbie and figure I know more then them... Everybody has something to offer, and some of those newbies may truely be experts in their areas of collecting...

I get thrilled when the newbies are young people....... I find myself loving them all, CoinAddict, KlectorKid, Airplanenut, JrGMan2004 and others.... You cats are our future and have found these boards! I really believe these boards will equip you to make better purchases, equip you to be better graders, equip you to avoid scams/frauds.....

We need newbies with a fresh prospective and ideas and input... This is good....

When we get newbies whose sole intent is to sow seeds of discourse, flame, incite, this isn't good......
Sometimes we can't always tell right away who is what.........

If I am guilty of some 'inner circle' I'll say anybody can be part of that..... Any person that shows up and makes this board a better place and helps and shares.... your HepKitty approved......

But I've had others come and within their first 10 posts insult me in some manner or another, I remember one person from Ebay coming on here and saying how can anybody here be taken seriously when there is some dumb girl sitting on a car posting, he then said what does that have to do with coins.....

He was brand new and never really read these boards I suppose....

Newbies, we love you, take the time to get to know us and we'll do the same for you!

Cladiator · January 20, 2004 7:05PM

You go Miss Bop! As a relative newbie here I can say I have felt the proverbial "cold shoulder" a couple times from some high post members (no names mentioned and no ill will held) but I can also say that Lucy has been nothing but super cool and a hip hip chick!

Do the "insiders" or experts on this board wish us newbies would just go away?

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Do the &quot;insiders&quot; or experts on this board wish us newbies would just go away?

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Do the "insiders" or experts on this board wish us newbies would just go away?