Coin Slabs -- Security Is Critical

Sequitur · January 19, 2004 3:23PM

The folks over on the baseball card forum have uncovered a new Ebay fraud. They really nailed this guy -- they have his fakes, along with the real items, posted side-by-side.

As I understand the fraudster would print out bogus grading labels, replete with fake bar codes. The key is the fraudster would use real registry numbers on the bogus labels from previously-graded cards that scored a mint-10 designation (I think the highest grade for cards). I also understand he would purchase low-graded rookie cards, crack part of the slab, remove the low-grade label, insert one of his bogus high-grade labels, reseal, and make a fortune relisting the card as a gem mint 10 specimen.

If you tried to verify via the registry, forget it, you're toast -- the slab would be verified. Apparently he's scammed quite a few people.

I sure hope coin slabs can't be similarly manipulated.

Coppernicus · January 19, 2004 3:29PM

If the card slab can be manipulated, why not a coin slab? This was a problem years ago with PCGS slabs and was addresed successfuly, I believe. Is this card scam an early warning for the coin slab people?

(Hope not - too many $$ invested on my part)

Mike

lordmarcovan · January 19, 2004 3:48PM

I think part of that problem (knowing absolutely nothing of sportscards as I do) may be the grading of paper. In coins it should not be as big a deal since to those in the know can tell an MS68 from a VG08 any day of the week.

A slab is no substitute for knowing how to grade something yourself. Lack of knowledge about existing standards can cause you trouble whether or not something is slabbed.

However, for somebody who doesn't know how to grade, this could be a problem. If I were into sportscards (and I am not- I think I would sooner collect seashells or acorns), then maybe that would have fooled me. If he put a low grade coin into a high grade slab, though, I doubt he'd trick me. Now, if he was more conservative and kept his spread in a one or two point range, he might trip me up.

Coppernicus · January 19, 2004 4:04PM

lord - the point here, I think, is not if you or I could be fooled with the slab in hand. Rather, it is the detrimental impact this would have on the "sight unseen" market. Would you feel comfortable buying a PCGS slabbed coin if you thought that the slab could be tampered with? Even with a no questions asked return policy? Who needs this kind of hassle?

I sincerely hope that the current PCGS slabs are "tamper proof" in the sense that it would be obvious if they were cracked somehow and resealed.

Mike

ElectricEye · January 19, 2004 4:15PM

the PCGS and ANACS slabs look pretty tuff to open and reseal without making a mess ~ the NGC slabs look tampered with even when they first come out of NGC's warehouse

Sequitur · January 19, 2004 4:19PM

Rather, it is the detrimental impact this would have on the "sight unseen" market.

Yes, exactly.

PCGS slabs look pretty secure to me. Still, collectors, dealers and graders need to be informed about these scams to stay several steps ahead of the crooks. As you noted, this did happen with coin slabs in the past. Surely PSA was aware of this, but still, even with 20/20 hindsight, looks like a bunch of people got taken in 2003-2004. Not PSA's fault, but you can bet slab security is on the agenda for the sportcard folks.

If I were into sportscards (and I am not- I think I would sooner collect seashells or acorns)

I don't get cards, either. Collected some sets when I was a kid in the mid-80s -- Bonds and McGwire rookies, for example. Today, they're worthless to me. I think the Bonds rookie goes for like $10 in very good condition -- and he's the homerun king. Worse, I don't even like the damn cards today -- they annoy me, and I can't wait to get them the hell out of my closet. (But I make pick up some Lebron James. Never too proud to hedge.)

Coins rule.

relayer · January 19, 2004 4:19PM

PCGS slabs are pretty tough to open without damage. I think it would be easier to swap the coin then put in a new insert

lordmarcovan · January 19, 2004 4:52PM

<< <i>lord - the point here, I think, is not if you or I could be fooled with the slab in hand. Rather, it is the detrimental impact this would have on the "sight unseen" market. Would you feel comfortable buying a PCGS slabbed coin if you thought that the slab could be tampered with? Even with a no questions asked return policy? Who needs this kind of hassle? >>

Yeah, I see the implications, and they ain't pretty.

It must take some skill to pull it off, though.

I wonder about the physical differences between a card slab and a coin slab (thickness of the plastic, etc.)...

291fifth · January 19, 2004 8:58PM

The important point here is that collectors and slab companies need to be vigilant. There is and always has been a criminal element involved on the fringe of the hobby. Never assume that everything is all right. The criminals are trying to scam you each and every day. Keep your guard up.

pontiacinf · January 19, 2004 9:17PM

ummmm

no i will wait on this

But I must admit, if you study the psa slabs they are talking about, you are ALL missing one big anomoli

rob
pm me, ill give a push in the right direction

Russ · January 20, 2004 2:03AM

There must be some mistake here. The guy is a Power Seller with 99.5% positive feedback.

Russ, NCNE

nwcs · January 20, 2004 2:11AM

Well, the slab companies need to be vigilant in these cases and then very publicly bring charges against them. The more scammers they go after the less likely people will try to scam. You know, the old "your actions have consequences" routine.

I sincerely doubt that any modern slab from NGC or PCGS (modern as in last 10-15 years) could be altered without being evident as of today. As for the other companies, who knows. It is in PCGS and NGC's best interest to keep a certain level of confidence in their service. So I would expect to see more security features in slabs in the future.

291fifth · January 20, 2004 2:42AM

Just think of the damage that could be done to the coin hobby if slab shells of the major brand slabs ever got out. Anyone know just what security measures the slab companies use in this regard?

Russ · January 20, 2004 2:48AM

<< <i>Just think of the damage that could be done to the coin hobby if slab shells of the major brand slabs ever got out. >>

Remove the Coin World logo and it's identical to a PCGS slab shell.

Russ, NCNE

291fifth · January 20, 2004 3:50AM

Russ-

Are you sure it is identical? Can't it be opened? The Coin World ANACS size slabs are not the same as the regular ANACS slabs.

Tom- 291fifth

nwcs · January 20, 2004 3:52AM

The shell is basically the same. Obviously they are sealed differently. But the point is that it isn't hard to make a clone shell. Expensive for the little guy, but not hard.

SeattleSlammer · January 20, 2004 4:42AM

It's comforting to know that we coin collectors are not the only ones buying the slabs and not what's inside.

Conder101 · January 20, 2004 5:25PM

<< <i> As you noted, this did happen with coin slabs in the past. >>

Not quite, the PCGS fakes of the late 80's were not just fake labels. The shells themselves were also fakes. (Fake ACG and ICG shells have also ben created in the past, ACG a few years ago and ICG last year. Although the shells were made as far as I know they were not used to create ACG or ICG slabs.)

The Coin World shells are similar to the PCGS shells but not identical.

Coin Slabs -- Security Is Critical

Comments

Leave a Comment