Fellow Barber Lovers a question, Why aren't there any pretty barbers for sale in the all but dead ma

barberlover · January 16, 2004 3:52AM

When I say the market for them is "all but dead" I'm talking pricing, while gold coins are up, proof buffalos are up, red I.H.C's are up mint state barbers are at or near the 13 year lows, yet other then looking at images of fellow forum members best barbers I see none for sale that I would want to own.

I have bought every mint state barber quarter or half that was for sale that met my expectations in the last 2 years with the exception of 1 that a board member/ dealer wants 1000 dollars over grey sheet for, [no I wont name him].

For the most part the nice ones I've seen are in "strong hands" but you would think with prices being depressed for the series for so long people who have the really nice one would just give up and sell them.

Les

barberlover · January 16, 2004 6:06AM

ttt

SeattleSlammer · January 16, 2004 7:07AM

Maybe Barber owners figure that the prices are bound to rebound and they don't want to sell too cheaply?

I'm no Barber expert, but I've always thought they were pretty coins.

I had a gorgeous PCGS Barber quarter with monster album toning consisting of ice blue rims and bright yellow centers....but I sold it! One of those, why-did-I-sell-that-one stories.

sinin1 · January 16, 2004 8:40AM

I think they are out there if you are willing to pony up the cash

you probably are looking in all the wrong places for what you desire

BigD5 · January 16, 2004 8:45AM

I think if you are a Barber collector, you are more of a hard core collector, and don't give a hoot what the market is doing, you have the coin to have it in your collection. Barber coinage isn't considered "investment" material to most.
Depressed pricing is going to keep the good stuff back if the collector had any temptation anyway.

Merc · January 16, 2004 9:27AM

Barbers are hard to find uncirculated. Many are common in g-VG but have unc pops of 50 or less. I bought 2 certified MS63 halves last year. Both were solid 63's and both went for below greysheet. I guess the demand isn't there so the prices are low. Still, at the FUN show, I didn't see any certified MS barbers. I'm sure they were there somewhere but I looked at several tables and didn't see any.

MacCoin · January 16, 2004 9:51AM

<< Why aren't there any pretty barbers for sale in the all but dead market for them >>

of course there are nice mint state barbs out there I just don't make the $$$ to own them.

Russ · January 16, 2004 9:58AM

<< Why aren't there any pretty barbers for sale >>

No such thing.

Russ, NCNE

BigD5 · January 16, 2004 10:15AM

Russ makes a good point. A lot of collectors don't like the Barber coins.
I feel the same way towards Frankies and Ikes. I can't stand to own them. I think they're ugly.

Nic · January 16, 2004 10:52AM

High end and ultra grade mint state Barber's have been trading for 1.5x-5x sheet for years. Very much like early type. Neat coins with with eye appeal are few and far between. K

Bear · January 16, 2004 10:58AM

High end PQ barbers are very difficult to find. Most are maxed out and then some

as to grade. I am having to bid in auctions and pay thru the nose ,for the spectacular specimens.

These are the ones that will always be worth top dollar in good markest and bad. The rest of the

available Barbers seem fror the most part to be merely average quality product.

While the gray sheet has not moved, that seems to reflect the pricing for only the average or subpar specimins.

Dave99B · January 16, 2004 11:14AM

I'm not so sure about "dead pricing". That's not been my experience.

I've been paying 40% over greysheet for nice mint state material, mainly quarters and halves (if it has original skin, or nice original toning). I can't speak about dimes. On the other hand, ugly toned MS examples, or washed out over-dipped white material is everywhere, and can be easily had. That goes for proof materal too. And the vast majority of the Barber material available is in the later category - FUGLY.

As far a circulated material, VF, XF on up. ....forget it! If it is original, I have to pay a 100% surcharge! Watch Tyler's auctions (ARCO). He lists an original half dollar, with a greysheet bid of $70, and it sells for $220. I can't seem to win one. Brutal!

Dave

roadrunner · January 16, 2004 12:20PM

Like Nic said, put up some really nice Barbers and watch the fireworks begin. There used to be some nice Barbers out there up to around the early 1990's. They've all but disappeared into strong hands. Paying CDN bid is not going to bust them loose.

And despite the comments of Barbers being ugly and not in demand. Forget it. The problem is that type collectors like myself have just about given up on them. Short of an Eliasberg type collection hitting the market, most Barbers being offered at auction are so-so. If a real choice original set hit the market now... record prices. When's the last time a nice nice set hit?

roadrunner

roadrunner

barberlover · January 16, 2004 12:41PM

Nic, I still want your 1892 Barber half in pcgs 65 [outstanding coin!!!]

Russ!!! don't get me started on ugly coins like 2 cent pieces

Bear, {a very wise bear you are !!!)

When I referred to [sheet pricing] and the coins that are exceptional being in "strong hands" it was because of the sheet pricing. Back in the late 80's I saw some exceptional barber coins at huge prices so I couldn't buy them then and now that the sheet prices are so low those pieces are nowhere to be found. I have a reputation for being cheap, but if one of the pieces I'm thinking of goes on the market and I see it first it's gone !!!!!!

I guess it would have been better if I had developed a craving for m.s. 65 2 and a half gold indians or better date or proof buffalo nickles a few years ago, but ugly design or not I love pretty barber quarters & halves, their is just something about her I can't put into words [allthough I know some of you think that word is fugly] but to me she is beutiful [unless dipped !!!!]

Remember the barber thread a few months ago ? Best group of barber coins I ever saw pictured in one place, that was my favorite thread of all the threads I ever saw here and I've enjoyed alot of them.

Les

stman · January 16, 2004 12:56PM

<< I have a reputation for being cheap, >>

Say it isn't so BL.

puff · January 16, 2004 1:23PM

Anything wrong with proofs like these? Are maybe you're not interested in proofs? These aren't cheap though! 2 PCGS pr67's and 1 pr65....

Android · January 16, 2004 1:24PM

Les, I saw a number of absolutely stunning Barbers of all denominations at the FUN show last week, and as everyone has noted, throw away the sheets on the really fine ones. I did manage to find a nice original MS65 1892 for "around" grey sheet "ask" from a dealer whom I have a good history with (i.e. I've spent a lot of money with). Here's a pic. This coin has a creamy golden patina on both sides, and the luster slices through sharply, more so than in the image.

barberlover · January 16, 2004 1:40PM

Andy, very nice.

Money for travel for me right now is out of the question. I have some dealers I trust more then others but no one has my "minds eye to know what I'd be looking for so I'm afraid to go on any dealers want list. Oh well, maybe I'll just stumble into what I'm looking for, it doesn't happen often but its cheaper then a round trip to florida with airfair, hotel room, meals and coins [if any].

Hope to see you at the show in brooklyn center in the spring.

Les

puff · January 16, 2004 1:51PM

<< Andy, very nice.

Money for travel for me right now is out of the question. I have some dealers I trust more then others but no one has my "minds eye to know what I'd be looking for so I'm afraid to go on any dealers want list. Oh well, maybe I'll just stumble into what I'm looking for, it doesn't happen often but its cheaper then a round trip to florida with airfair, hotel room, meals and coins [if any].

Hope to see you at the show in brooklyn center in the spring.

Les >>

Uhh, was there something wrong with the Barbers I posted Les? Are did you just ignore them?

ARCO · January 16, 2004 1:54PM

Golberg auctions has a whole run of proof barber halves and quarters that look smoking hot. Of course they have those super pics that are hard to tell the true colors, but they look nice.

Tyler

michael · January 16, 2004 2:14PM

I'm not so sure about "dead pricing". That's not been my experience.

I've been paying 40% over greysheet for nice mint state material, mainly quarters and halves (if it has original skin, or nice original toning). I can't speak about dimes. On the other hand, ugly toned MS examples, or washed out over-dipped white material is everywhere, and can be easily had. That goes for proof materal too. And the vast majority of the Barber material available is in the later category - FUGLY.

As far a circulated material, VF, XF on up. ....forget it! If it is original, I have to pay a 100% surcharge! Watch Tyler's auctions (ARCO). He lists an original half dollar, with a greysheet bid of $70, and it sells for $220. I can't seem to win one. Brutal!

Dave

many great comments on here

i think dave sums it up extremely well as per the above

wow thanks dave you have an excellent handle on the barber market and excellent writing skills

michael

barberlover · January 16, 2004 2:20PM

Puff,

Sorry I didn't respond to your post, its just that Andy is someone from my area and his coin is more along the lines of what I'm looking for [mint state]

I didn't mean to imply your proofs weren't pretty. The top one is the one I like the best of the ones you posted but I probably couldn't afford it.

Les

michael · January 16, 2004 2:23PM

for me

true gem mintstate barber halves with undipped original white thick skins and great eye appeal and monster lustre is super rare to almost non existant especially so after 1900

true gem mintstate 1901 02 03 monster toned monster lustre even white monster lustre barber quarters are basically close to non existant rarest of the rare the holy grail of the barber quarter series

any barber dimes monster toned red green in gem mintstate any date with great lustre
also as per the above in terms of availability

gem proof barber dimes in strong stellar near miss deep cameo to deep cameo after 1912 are totally monster rare coins

gem proof barber quarters after 1900 in deep ultra cameo are again monster rare coins

and as per the above monster double monster

***************underapprecaited
****************undervalued coinage

overall lower pops than most 19 to 20 century silver coinage

michael

puff · January 16, 2004 2:28PM

<< Puff,

Sorry I didn't respond to your post, its just that Andy is someone from my area and his coin is more along the lines of what I'm looking for [mint state]

I didn't mean to imply your proofs weren't pretty. The top one is the one I like the best of the ones you posted but I probably couldn't afford it.

Les >>

Les.... I was just kidding. That's why I had a

at the very end.

Besides they're not my coins. They're Pinnacles, but I've been giving some serious thought of expanding my collecting in to the Barber catagory after seeing those!

BTW...... I like the top one the best also!

oreville · January 16, 2004 2:33PM

Hmmm, this good for nothing Barber quarter. Looks more like orphan Annie to me.........

stman · January 16, 2004 2:33PM

<< Les.... I was just kidding. That's why I had a at the very end. Besides they're not my coins. They're Pinnacles, but I've been giving some serious thought of expanding my collecting in to the Barber catagory after seeing those! BTW...... I like the top one the best also! >>

Hey dude, you've got the market and the dealers cornered in high grade toned Walkers..... stay there

puff · January 16, 2004 2:42PM

<< 

<< Les.... I was just kidding. That's why I had a at the very end. Besides they're not my coins. They're Pinnacles, but I've been giving some serious thought of expanding my collecting in to the Barber catagory after seeing those! BTW...... I like the top one the best also! >>

Hey dude, you've got the market and the dealers cornered in high grade toned Walkers..... stay there

>>

I ain't sellin my Walkers until I get my hands on that one you have!

stman · January 16, 2004 2:46PM

Puff, you can have the Walker I have. You only have to send me your icon coin in exchange.

Told you I was a coin "HOE."

puff · January 16, 2004 2:53PM

<< Puff, you can have the Walker I have. You only have to send me your icon coin in exchange.

Told you I was a coin "HOE." >>

Not a problem Stman! Here ya go!

stman · January 16, 2004 2:57PM

Ohhhh Baby. That's better than buying women jewelry isn't it?

oreville · January 16, 2004 2:59PM

I can see Charles Barber once again turning in his grave!

puff · January 16, 2004 3:01PM

<< Ohhhh Baby. That's better than buying women jewelry isn't it? >>

Absolutely!

barberlover · January 16, 2004 3:09PM

Puff,

I just checked the Pinnacle site, WOW looks like a colored barber collection just got sold. I'm tempted, but the only way I could would be to sell some other coins or get out the plastic.

That one we both liked the best is a proof 66 cameo and 6700 bucks ouch !!!!

I need to win the lotto.

Les

roadrunner · January 16, 2004 11:14PM

Barberlover, we're agreement that the Barber design is quite beautiful. To each his/her own as they say. I find it very similar to the Morgan so whoever loves the Morgan and hates the Barber I can only say....huh???

Barber and Seated proofs are quite plentiful. They were saved at time of issue. The MS animals are a whole another animal. When you toss in toning issues, cleanings, survival rates, the MS coins are far more rare as a general rule. If you decide on only nice eye-appealing coins, you have eliminated 90% of the MS Barber pop.
I never turn down a nice choice/gem MS Barber at a good price. I've bought maybe 6 pieces in the last 6 years. The market is not "dead" but merely there is no consistent supply. Same goes for nice bust and seated material...or most 19th century type coins.
The market over the past few years has moved towards completing sets and that's almost impossible with gem Mint State Barbers. For the 50 gem set of proof 25c's available per the PCGS pops (PF65 and higher) there are 5 or so comparable set of MS Barbers 25's available to the buying public. That's 10 to 1. And while the proofs are readily available up to PF67 and PF68, the MS pieces are very unavailable in those grades. Many dates have none graded yet as PCGS MS67's.

The mindset, especially to newer collectors, is that proof is better, proof is nicer, etc. I don't concur myself. If you want to include DCAMS then allow me to toss in Full Strike (full claw headband, stars, feathers, etc) on the Mint State coins and we'll compare those.

roadrunner

puff · January 16, 2004 11:24PM

<< Barberlover, we're agreement that the Barber design is quite beautiful. To each his/her own as they say. I find it very similar to the Morgan so whoever loves the Morgan and hates the Barber I can only say....huh???

Barber and Seated proofs are quite plentiful. They were saved at time of issue. The MS animals are a whole another animal. When you toss in toning issues, cleanings, survival rates, the MS coins are far more rare as a general rule. If you decide on only nice eye-appealing coins, you have eliminated 90% of the MS Barber pop.
I never turn down a nice choice/gem MS Barber at a good price. I've bought maybe 6 pieces in the last 6 years. The market is not "dead" but merely there is no consistent supply. Same goes for nice bust and seated material...or most 19th century type coins.
The market over the past few years has moved towards completing sets and that's almost impossible with gem Mint State Barbers. For the 50 gem set of proof 25c's available per the PCGS pops (PF65 and higher) there are 5 or so comparable set of MS Barbers 25's available to the buying public. That's 10 to 1. And while the proofs are readily available up to PF67 and PF68, the MS pieces are very unavailable in those grades. Many dates have none graded yet as PCGS MS67's.

The mindset, especially to newer collectors, is that proof is better, proof is nicer, etc. I don't concur myself. If you want to include DCAMS then allow me to toss in Full Strike (full claw headband, stars, feathers, etc) on the Mint State coins and we'll compare those.

roadrunner >>

Great post Roadrunner!

Very informative!

barberlover · January 17, 2004 1:45AM

Road Runner, Michael, Puff.

My ultimate goal in collecting the barber series is not to complete the sets with eye appeal, that would almost be impossible even if I was rich. My goal is to aquire as many of the coins that meet my standards and consider each one a valuable prize in and of itself. I would not for example want the 2 best graded barber coins of a given date if they had low eye appeal, but I would have no issue with buying two coins of the same date and grade if the eye appeal blew me away.

I do not acctually have a large coin collection as a whole or a large number of barber coins, but the coins I do have when spread out and looked at give me a feeling of satisfaction and accomplishment.

For the moment my collecting is on hold after the pretty trade dollar I got from Pinnacle a couple weeks ago, but when my financial situation is completly turned around I will be on the hunt again for barber coins that look like Nic's & Andys barber halfs and like my Icon barber quarter.

Nic, could you please post pic's of that beautiful 92 barber half here that you posted in that barber thread some months ago ? I know you wont sell it to me, but I'd just like to look at her again.

Les

MFH · January 17, 2004 2:08AM

Barber sets are the real back bone of my collection. However, only a few are in MS, the vast majority are AU55-58. You have to have DEEP pockets to assemble a gem MS set. Look at the top Barber sets listed on the Registry ... there are some incredible coins posted. I have not found these sets to be stagnet , as I can attest to when hunting for dates needed for my own sets. What seems stagnet is the price guides, as the infrequency of coins being offered keeps trends low.

puff · January 17, 2004 2:20AM

<< Road Runner, Michael, Puff.

My ultimate goal in collecting the barber series is not to complete the sets with eye appeal, that would almost be impossible even if I was rich. My goal is to aquire as many of the coins that meet my standards and consider each one a valuable prize in and of itself. I would not for example want the 2 best graded barber coins of a given date if they had low eye appeal, but I would have no issue with buying two coins of the same date and grade if the eye appeal blew me away.

I do not acctually have a large coin collection as a whole or a large number of barber coins, but the coins I do have when spread out and looked at give me a feeling of satisfaction and accomplishment.

For the moment my collecting is on hold after the pretty trade dollar I got from Pinnacle a couple weeks ago, but when my financial situation is completly turned around I will be on the hunt again for barber coins that look like Nic's & Andys barber halfs and like my Icon barber quarter.

Nic, could you please post pic's of that beautiful 92 barber half here that you posted in that barber thread some months ago ? I know you wont sell it to me, but I'd just like to look at her again.

Les >>

Les..... I would also like to see "Nic's" Barber!

Just to add to your excellent post on why you collect Barbers, I collect Walkers for the same reasons...... Not because of the grade, but because of the eye appeal! If I collected only for the grade, are for the highest registry set, I would only be buying "plastic" like many other collectors do trying to see if they can have the # 1 registry set in a particular series. That might be okay for some, but not for me...... That being said, (and since I do have the # 2 late date Walker set in the registry), it isn't because of the plastic the coins are in, it's because every coin in my set has outstanding eye appeal, and is either solid for the grade, or high end for the assigned grade. But I am continually looking for nice Walkers, and if I find one that I can buy that looks nicer than one that is presently in my set I will try to acquire that coin. But if I think it is overgraded, and/or overpriced, I will pass. Because I have found like I'm sure many other collectors here have, that just because it says it's a particular grade in a piece of plastic, doesn't necessarily make it so!

coinguy1 · January 17, 2004 2:30AM

Les, is this (NGC MS65) one too small? Too expensive ($595)? Too ugly? Too dipped out looking?

Russ · January 17, 2004 2:44AM

<< is this (NGC MS65) one too small? Too expensive ($595)? Too ugly? Too dipped out looking? >>

Three out of four.

Russ, NCNE

barberlover · January 17, 2004 3:43AM

<< Les, is this (NGC MS65) one too small? Too expensive ($595)? Too ugly? Too dipped out looking?

>>

Mark, !!!! Quit tempting me !!!!

While I don't collect barber dimes, that one would fit in nicely as a type dime in my collection. As to your question about it being to ugly or to expensive, no it isn't those things, but it isn't on your website so it does appear to be to sold !!!!

What is the mark on the upper cheek ?

Mark looking at your website recently it looks like a collector of color type coins just sold out to Pinnacle. You have 8 or 9 coins on your site right now that I would buy if I had the money. That has NEVER happened before [not talking about the lack of money, that happens all the time], but I've never seen so many coins on 1 dealers website at one time that interests me. Hmmm I wonder if I could sell enough blood at the blood bank to pay for some of those.

Les

coinguy1 · January 17, 2004 3:49AM

Les, I think Russ must have hurried and grabbed the dime after panning it publicly

PM sent.

oreville · January 17, 2004 3:58AM

coinguy: Isn't that what the smart coin collectors do? Pan the coin in public and then swoop them up?

puff · January 17, 2004 4:00AM

<< Les, I think Russ must have hurried and grabbed the dime after panning it publicly

PM sent. >>

That figures!!!!!!!!!

jom · January 17, 2004 4:24AM

There's a nice write-up in CDN Monthly this month about MS Barber Halves. Check it out....

jom

coinguy1 · January 17, 2004 4:25AM

Oreville, that is exactly what smart coin collectors do. BUT, Russ apparently likes and hoards AH (that's AH, not AT) Kennedy's, so, how smart can he really be?

roadrunner · January 17, 2004 5:04AM

Mark,

Either my eyesight is going or is that a 1911 obverse with an "O" mint mark on the reverse? I'll pay $595 for that once Russ passes on it in favor of another AH.

roadrunner

Russ · January 17, 2004 5:47AM

Hey, I'll have you guys know that I bought not one, not two, but THREE dimes at the show today!

Russ, NCNE

Russ · January 17, 2004 5:58AM

PS: I also looked at a ton of Barber Half Dollars today. I saw two types; original in Good, or dipped out crap in AU. Not a single VF/XF coin to be seen anywhere! Even the few slabbed ones on hand all looked like they'd just seen a ghost.

Russ, NCNE

GOLDSAINT · January 17, 2004 6:24AM

I seem to recall posting a few months ago that I was also working on a Barber half set and most of you ask ‘WHY” ? After thinking about your comments, I decided you were right . There is just not that much interest. The coins are hard to find in good grades, the prices are down and so not much comes into the market. I finished about half of the set in high grades, including 6 or 7 proofs, and put it away in favor of my Bust Half set. This is one of those dumb things that happen in our hobby. This is a very nice looking coin, that wears terrible, so the AU up stuff ought to be pretty pricey ,but its not!

Fellow Barber Lovers a question, Why aren't there any pretty barbers for sale in the all but dead ma

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