Which Auction houses are Best?

GOLDSAINT · January 16, 2004 7:44AM

Which Auction houses are Best?
Many of us, as we get to the harder parts of our collections, must many times go to the large auction houses to fill our needs. This is certainly my case working on my Bust half collection. In particular I really want someone very expert between me and an expensive purchase. As I narrow this set down to the very expensive, or high quality coins, I am no longer willing to risk buying un-slabbed material from un-known dealers. With all of your experience through the years which auction companies do you like, or dislike, and why?

spy88 · January 16, 2004 7:56AM

Are you looking for slabbed or raw? If slabbed, any of the auction houses will allow you to put a specific coin or coins on a want list and notify you should one turn up. Even your local dealer will do this, albeit for a price.

Heritage is considered the largest and may have the most contacts for the coin(s) you are looking for but they will almost guaranteed be slabbed. I do not know if their want list would accept requests for raw. You could always go to their web site, sign up for free and ask.

coinguy1 · January 16, 2004 8:07AM

Goldsaint, if you're buying expensive coins AND you're not an expert, I would recommend buying only coins certified by the most highly respected grading companies.

If you buy uncertified coins, you can get stung, whether you buy them directly from a non-auction dealer or through a major auction house.

And, if you're going to buy certified coins via major public auction, I'd recommend focusing more on the coins themselves, than the particular auction company that happens to be offering them for sale.

There are several high profile auction companies which have plenty of nice material for sale. Among them, some of the largest, in alphabetical order are:

ANR
Bowers
Goldberg
Heritage
Stack's
Superior

GOLDSAINT · January 16, 2004 8:11AM

Spy 88, in general what I am looking for currently is slabbed coins. Out of the 97 coins PCGS lists in their set of Bust halves, I currently own 62 on the list, and 5 other Overton rarities they do not list. Many of the ones I dont own are the rarer types that run hundreds if not $1,000 up, in grades of Fine to MS. My questions were more to how everyone liked the selections, and service, of the various Auction houses in general, as well as the prices.

geb209 · January 16, 2004 8:27AM

Heritage is the way to go. Those other houses listed above are harder to use than Heritage. For instance, Superior requires a deposit or a credit check. That's right, a credit check to purchase coins. I could understand waiting until the check cleared, but a credit check? I think there looking to swip some info. Bowers will be dead and gone in several years and they just dont have the volume that Heritage has. You don't want Stack's because they primarily deal in overgraded unslabbed coins. Unless you have the time and money to invest in someone to gone down and look at each individual coin, it's not worth it. Goldberg and ANR? Never dealt with them because Heritage has everything that I need. Take a gander at what Heritage offers and what the others offer. I think youll agree that Heritage is the man.

291fifth · January 16, 2004 8:48AM

You really have to research the auction houses to see how well they "fit" your coins. Then you have to determine if they are financially stable. I expect at least one auction house to fold in the not too distant future. There are too may active at present. As soon as there is a market slowdown someone will fall by the wayside. Make sure that they don't owe you money when they file chapter 11.

paigowjohnny · January 16, 2004 8:51AM

For what I've wanted, I've been very happy with Heritage. Fast and efficient customer service. The only thing I don't like is that, in California, I have to pay sales tax because of the way they're set up. I just factor that into my bids.

puff · January 16, 2004 9:27AM

I've won a few coins at Heritage and have had great service from them! They have went the extra mile for me on the last Signature sale at the Fun show..........

But if you are in to high end, high grade coins and can't actually make the show. You might want to hook up with one of the better dealers that you're familiar with, and trust their opinion on a particular coin, and have them check the coin that you're interested in for quality, etcetera. The reason you should do this in my opinion is with all of the other virtues that Heritage has their pictures of their coins aren't that great, and are usually scanned unless the coin is a super rare, or expensive coin.

RKKay · January 16, 2004 9:33AM

"Goldberg and ANR? Never dealt with them because Heritage has everything that I need. Take a gander at what Heritage offers and what the others offer. I think youll agree that Heritage is the man. "

I disagree wholeheartedly. I've consigned to both ANR and Heritage and got a much better deal with ANR and was treated much better. ANR is the former Bowers & Merena folks, including Q. David. If being treated well is what matters, the choice is ANR.

abuell · January 16, 2004 9:41AM

<< <i> I really want someone very expert between me and an expensive purchase. As I narrow this set down to the very expensive, or high quality coins, I am no longer willing to risk buying un-slabbed material from un-known dealers. >>

First off, if you're buying at auction the last party that you would want to be between you and an expensive purchase is the auction house. The auction house represents the consignor, not the bidder. If you don't realize that, and I seem to get the idea from some of the comments in this thread that some people don't, then you are in trouble from the start. If you are trying to mail bid or buy without seing the coin in person you are really bucking for trouble regardless of what auction house you are dealing with. If the coin is better than it appears in the catalog it will surely go to the floor. If it's worse than the cataloging makes it appear you'll be sure to get it. If you're buying coins that truly are rare how can you be picky about what auctions you bid in? Rare coins don't come up for sale that often (if they do, they aren't rare, no matter what anyone says). What you should be concerned with is how YOU are represented at the auction when something that you need does come up for sale. Paying a trusted and qualified expert to represent you, or, better yet, attending in person, is the only way to approach the auction route.

Pistareen · January 16, 2004 10:11AM

I'm curious to know:

What do people look for when they judge an auction house?

--> quality of cataloguing?
--> quality of photographs?
--> frequent sale of the kind of coins you're most interested in?
--> consignment rates?
--> advertising and marketing prowess?
--> size?
--> financial wherewithal?
--> customer service? In what way?

I guess I'm asking for what the original post was after -- what do you like or dislike, and why?

Bear · January 16, 2004 10:25AM

I have been dealing with the Goldbergs, both buying and selling at their auctions for years,

and have always been more then pleased with the results and service. Further, their pictures

in the catalogues are among the best in the bussiness.

sinin1 · January 16, 2004 10:32AM

yopu don't need an auction house,

you need a dealer to act as an agent for you

get one that goes to all the national shows, give them your want list and specifications -> they can help locate what you want and contact you with what they have found

unless of course you like looking hours and hours for things you rarely find

Shamika · January 16, 2004 11:36AM

GoldSaint,

Heritage is my favorite auction house, but ANR is coming on strong. However, in your case I would suggest finding a dealer who is an expert in Bust Halves. He'll cost you a little more, but you'll be happier in the long run.

RegistryCoin · January 16, 2004 11:38AM

There is no doubt that Heritage has created a tier for itself. There is now one company "head and shoulders" above the rest.
Other than Heritage, the rest are "also-rans".

geb209 · January 16, 2004 12:27PM

<< <i>I disagree wholeheartedly. I've consigned to both ANR and Heritage and got a much better deal with ANR and was treated much better. ANR is the former Bowers & Merena folks, including Q. David. If being treated well is what matters, the choice is ANR. >>

ANR may be ok for you but look at what Goldsaint is looking for. Bust halves in fine to MS up to $1,000. Do you really think ANR is the place for Goldsaint?

Placid · January 16, 2004 12:39PM

I think all auction houses when selling a 3rd party graded coin are just there to sell it and really do not care much about the quality of the coin vs the grade given by the 3rd party. You also have no return option depending on the auction house and type of auction.
The PR70dcam cent that pcgs pulled during the auction is a good example

A trustworthy dealer would be a better choice for selecting the the coins for you and weeding out the overgraded junk.

wondercoin · January 16, 2004 12:46PM

"There is no doubt that Heritage has created a tier for itself. There is now one company "head and shoulders" above the rest.
Other than Heritage, the rest are "also-rans"."

Overall, the consignors I worked with for the Heritage FUN sale (including Registrycoin) were super pleased with the results (I pooled a very large consignment for the FUN sale). I have already received a large quantity of coins from consignors to go into the Portland ANA Heritage sale in March as well, most repeat consignors. Having 100,000+ potential internet bidders doesn't hurt them obviously.

There is no question, I could get a slightly better "deal" with any number of other auction houses (a few of which I really do like personally). But, I believe Heritage now wants to be portrayed as the "premium" brand auction house and judging from the results at FUN of the large consignment, they have earned that respect from me!

And, I'll tell you another thing - IMHO HERITAGE HAS THE NICEST AND MOST SWEET LADIES HANDING OUT THE AUCTION LOTS AT LOT VIEWING OF ANY COMPANY OUT THERE!! MORE POLLY, CARLOTTA AND _____ (THE SPECIAL LADY WHO MAKES ORAGAMIS FOR MY SON TONEBOY/JUSTIN AT LONG BEACH - HER NAME ESCAPES ME RIGHT NOW), ETC. FOR ME!!

Wondercoin

Trime · January 16, 2004 1:55PM

I agree wholeheartedly with Coinguys comments. All auction houses sell coins of relative value. Unless you are a capable grader and a direct obsever you need help or luck. Most major auction houses ( mark defined them) will give good service.

GOLDSAINT · January 16, 2004 11:25PM

Thanks to all for your replies,
It appears that most everyone likes Heritage, and they are the big boy on the block. From the email I received from them the Jan 2004 sales were the largest in history,here is part of their mail if you have not seen this,

"Largest Rare Coin & Currency Auction of All Time: Over $30 Million
Auction sales by Heritage Numismatic Auctions, Currency Auctions of America, and Heritage World Coin Auctions in Orlando, Florida, between January 7 and 10, plus the official FUN Internet Bullet Auction, for which bidding closed on January 12, achieved a record $30,369,147 in actual sales. The prices realized climbed even higher as bidders purchased Post-Auction Bargains, which are available after every Heritage auction at www.heritagecoin.com.
Approximately 7,000 bidders participated in these auctions by phone, by mail, over the Internet or in person, and about 2,500 of those bidders actually purchased lots."

This is a very nice but aggressive group, I guess you must be, to stay on top in the coin business.
One interesting note here for what it is worth, the Heritage salesmen that call every so often are much more interested in you selling than buying. One that called last week told me to sell everything. He said that a person should only own about 40 coins of very high grade only. I just let him do his job and listened. The only thing ths told me is that they are having a hard time finding enough to run through their sales program. In a 30 minute sales talk every word was directed towards me selling. Not once did he ask what was I interested in buying.

lava · January 17, 2004 2:59AM

ttt

foodude · January 17, 2004 3:13AM

From a buyers standpoint

ANR- Nice catalogs (just like B&M- no surprise there; very freindly people to talk to at the shows); haven't bought anything from them though; they just didn't have what In was looking for

Bowers: Nice catalog and easy to deal with; my most recent auction aquisition from B&M was about 6 weeks ago.

Goldberg: Haven't dealt with them

Heritage: The overall best at this point in time; can be a bit difficult to get the right person on the phone but once that is accomplished, I found them to be very helpful and knowlwdgable

Stack's: These lots must be viewed in person by someone that knows what they are doing before you bid! Since I'm not at their auctions, or care to have someone spend the time to wade through the lots, I avoid them.

Superior: I've tried to bid on their lots, but setting up an account is way top complicated, so I just look at the pics and buy elsewhere. In the early 90's I even attended several Superior auctions and found them to be much easier to deal with.

GOLDSAINT · January 17, 2004 6:11AM

This just in today from Heritage, WOW how would you like to have this new overhead? I guess they think there is no end to this market or its supply?

"We are relocating our world headquarters to a substantially larger space in Dallas as part of our expansion into additional markets. Heritage's new address, effective 1/26/03, will be:
3500 Maple Avenue, 17th Floor
Dallas, Texas 75219-3941
We are doubling our existing footage, to more than 43,000 sq. ft. and will have crown signage on the building ("Heritage Galleries"), along with a landmark 10' high neon $20 Saint Gaudens gold piece, believed to be the world's largest "coin". Our phone and fax numbers will not change."

I wonder when they will get tired of paying for certification and open there own slab company?
One other thing the salesman told me the other day is that they are sending in about 100,000
coins per month to be certified for themselves and clients. What is PCGS and NGC best rate? Lots of money going out of their company, millions per year,
or do they own a big part of one of these slab companies?
Collector's universe is a public company, right?
It would be interesting to know how much stock the insiders in Heritage own.

abuell · January 17, 2004 6:16AM

100,000 coins per month and I'll have ya know there boy, them be RARE coins that they be sellin'!

dollardude · January 17, 2004 6:24AM

Heritage and Superior are, IMO, the best. I agree with the comments above on Heritage. Heritage has a very professional consignment packet that they will send to you via snail mail. They have very good marketing, as they've been trying to get me to consign with them for a year now, but I'm still in the collecting stage of my life. They also have a very good on-line system set up. Superior is also very good and professional, IMO.

foodude · January 17, 2004 6:34AM

I wonder when they will get tired of paying for certification and open there own slab company?

They tried that in the '80s and early 90s. Wasn't it NCI or something like that; James Halperin and/or Steve Ivy even published a book on their standards?

edited to added: While the NCI standards are looser than PCGS and NGC, their grading book has some great insights (including diagrams)in how to grade, just remember when reading it that their standards are different than PCGSs and NGCs.

GOLDSAINT · January 17, 2004 6:35AM

I think it might be interesting to start a Heritage thread at some point. Dollardude, I am sure you I and others must be getting this same line of why to sell NOW! what I should have ask this guy that called is just what "40 coins" do they think a collector ought to keep while selling out the remainder?If any of you have been told this please post their list, I will do the same on wednesday when the guy calls back. Perhaps they will email or fax us a list of their HOT COINS to keep list?

Which Auction houses are Best?

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