A numismatic wrong made right--updated

RYK · December 24, 2003 2:20AM

When I was in 6th grade in 1977, I was an avid coin collector. As a reward for winning a local spelling bee, my father said that I could get anything I wanted in the Stack's catalog for under $200. To me, this was (is) very cool. I perused the catalog for weeks, deliberated, and finally settled on a 1890 $2.50 in "Satin-like AU" condition. It was the pride of my collection.

Like many here, as I got older, my interest in coin collection waned. Grateful Dead music, baseball cards, girls/women, running, college, med school, residency, career, investing, football, marriage, and family all took turns as a much bigger part of my life (not necesarily in that order

). My interest in collecting would perk up, I would buy a few coins, and then quit for a couple years.

Finally, in 2002, I returned to collecting in earnest and chose to focus on gold coins. I found my old 1890 $2.50 and took it to be evaluated by ANACS at a local show. To my horror, I was told the coin was cleaned, and they net graded to XF. I have since learned from others that this scenario has not only played out all over but especially at the then (and, perhaps, less so now) esteemed Stack's coin firm.

An opportunity came up on the BST board (CollectorCoin) to purchase the same date in a PCGS AU-58 holder. I received the coin in the mail yesterday, and it had a nice, original surface and is very attractive for the grade. While I do not collect QE's by date, but I felt that this foul needed to be corrected, and I feel better having done so.

Robert

Edited to update title and to add that I submitted the Stack's coin to PCGS and it came back in 58 holder!

mgoodm3 · December 24, 2003 2:23AM

I would keep the thing for sentimental reasons. A present from your father. At least, that's what i would do.

XpipedreamR · December 24, 2003 2:26AM

Just give it to me and save yourself the trouble

Dog97 · December 24, 2003 2:26AM

It's funny how the opinion of a 3rd party service changed your opinion of your beloved coin.
I'd still keep it though.

CoinAddict · December 24, 2003 2:26AM

I'm with mgoodm3 on this one. I really think you should keep the coin for sentimental reasons.

bearcave · December 24, 2003 2:33AM

Keep the coin.

I have a 1921 Morgan that was gave to my parents from the doctor the day I was born and it had not seen anyone's pocket since 1960 as it was put up all those years. I sent the Morgan to PCGS in 1997 and it came back a MS61. I was a little surprised it did not grade better, but I will not part with it. It's still in the blue box where it will stay and it is preserved now as well.

Keep the coin.

BigE · December 24, 2003 2:34AM

RYK, the same thing happened to me long ago when I was just a weed of a Tree, my father bought me a 1914-D at Ketts Koin Kastle in Oxnard, Ca. for my birthday and it turned out to be a fake(made in Italy, so I was told). The dealer refunded my $$ five years later and I got back what I had paid even though the coin had gone up in value. I remember beig very upset about this at the time and we later found another fake in my set which we returned also-----------------------------BigE

cosmicdebris · December 24, 2003 2:34AM

I would keep it too.

jim · December 24, 2003 2:40AM

Keep it! Remember it was the pride of your collection and a gift from your father. There is no grade higher!!

RYK · December 24, 2003 2:45AM

The overwelming majority advises me to keep it. To me, it is more of a reminder that I was $crewed by Stack's than a keepsake from my father. Besides, I generally do not need keepsakes from my father (and I still have his old collection, if I do).

The coin is gone in January. Perhaps it will become the pride of someone else's collection (maybe another YN).

Robert

ms70 · December 24, 2003 2:46AM

Keep the coin! I see it's value as priceless.

FrattLaw · December 24, 2003 2:50AM

Last year I did a YN 4th of July giveaway that was a huge success.It's 6 months away, but there will be a 2nd Annual 4th of July YN Giveaway in 2004. If you would like I would happily accept it as a donation.

But, like the rest, I say keep it -- even if its a reminder of how you got screwed by Staks. Sometimes we do need reminders of bad things!

Michael

rkfish · December 24, 2003 2:50AM

I agree with Dog97 on this one.......the "opinion" changed your love
for the coin and the "meaning" behind it and it shouldn't !!

KEEP THE COIN !!

jim · December 24, 2003 2:51AM

Oh hell...If you feel that way, just give it to me and I'll put with my 2.50 piece that was given to me by my grandfather of which is my pride of my collection

BigE · December 24, 2003 2:52AM

Make a ring out of it----------------BigE

ms70 · December 24, 2003 2:59AM

Just thought I would share this also-

I too collected coins as a child. I'd save my allowance & my mom would take me to the only coin store in the area (about 7 miles away).
There was a very nice patient old man behind the counter every time we went. I always bought the oldest coin I could afford! The
oldest being an 1843 Cent, probably in G04 or less by today's standards. As I remember an expensive coin for me was about $6.

Anyway, many years later the 1843 Cent and others went to PCGS. They all came back in bodybags for environmental damage, etc, etc.
But now they are all in the safe with the rest of my "adult" collection and I will never sell them because of the memories that come back
to me when I look at them. They have a value to them that the others, regardless of grade & value, will never have!

Enjoy!

razorface1027 · December 24, 2003 3:11AM

KEEEEEEEEEEEP IT!.....I did what you're contemplating doing. Pass it on to your kids as I wished I had done with mine. Still

sddened by the fact of what I did after all these years.

coinguy1 · December 24, 2003 3:13AM

<< ... To me, it is more of a reminder that I was $crewed by Stack's than a keepsake from my father. >>

Robert, please add me to the list of those who suggest that you keep the coin. You have two very good reasons to do so - one of them will hopefully bring back fond memories and the other will remind you of the perils of collecting. How can you go wrong with a combination like that?

mgoodm3 · December 24, 2003 3:15AM

Boy, RYK, you're taking a lot of heat for threatening to give this coin away. I would say, do whatever you are comfortable with. There are a lot of sentimental people around here, including me. Sounds like you have a lot of father keepsake coins around otherwise.

coinlieutenant · December 24, 2003 3:18AM

Robert,

Keep that coin. It is still worth a hundred or so dollars and is an excellent reminder of the good and the bad of coin collecting.

I love that date btw, just picked up a PCGS XF45 2.5$ last Friday...

John

RNCHSN · December 24, 2003 3:18AM

I'm with the dog on this one too!

DAM · December 24, 2003 3:19AM

IMO, just because a coin has been cleaned doesn't mean it's not desireable. Especially coins picked up as young/new collectors. You purchase coins because you like them for what they are. Because you made a mistake as a young man doesn't mean the coin is worthless.

Many coins I bought when I was young I woundn't think of buying today. As a matter of fact, when I look at some of them it reminds me of how uneducated/naive I was. A couple of my most precious coins are coins given to me by my grandparents and parents. They're not worth paying grading fees to have slabbed. These coins are precious because of their sentimental value and worth much more than the value of the coin itself.

Draco · December 24, 2003 3:20AM

Another mark for the "keep it" column.

1jester · December 24, 2003 3:21AM

RYK, I can completely understand your desire to rid yourself of that reminder of being screwed. I advise you to get rid of the disgraced coin. Especially since you want to give pleasure to another person, such as a YN. If I were on the receiving end, I'd really love to get the coin, and as such you will be a hero. On the giving end, you will make yourself happy and make somebody else happy. Perhaps that's why it's better to give than to receive.

Give it away.

RYK · December 24, 2003 3:23AM

Boy, RYK, you're taking a lot of heat for threatening to give this coin away. I would say, do whatever you are comfortable with. There are a lot of sentimental people around here, including me. Sounds like you have a lot of father keepsake coins around otherwise.

Maybe I will radiate it.

I am not sentimental with objects. As far as my father is concerned, I have more good feelins and sentiment for our hiking trips togther than I do for a lousy (read: cleaned) QE. BTW, even with a 7x glass, the hairlines are few and difficult to see. If the coin were on a sunken ship, it would surely grade.

It's gone.

mgoodm3 · December 24, 2003 3:26AM

A little radiation is good for the soul.

MJPHELAN · December 24, 2003 3:30AM

Keep it,

My story mirrors yours. I have a 1950-D jefferson that my dad won at an auction for me. (I could not believe he spent $10!). It is now in a pcgs holder (made fs). I have seen many nicer 50-D's, but I will never replace it.

Mark

stujoe · December 24, 2003 3:35AM

<< It's funny how the opinion of a 3rd party service changed your opinion of your beloved coin.
I'd still keep it though. >>

Same thoughts here.

Barry · December 24, 2003 4:06AM

Have you gotten a second opinion on the coin? ANACS has been VERY picky lately. I recently sent them a coin for certification I knew was cleaned. What does the holder say? Cleaned and Corroded. There's no corrosion on the coin.

MrEureka · December 24, 2003 4:19AM

RYK - Maybe you should have offered the coin back to Stacks? Give THEM a chance to right the wrong?

Coinosaurus · December 24, 2003 4:41AM

Give to a YN, who will be very greatful for it. Show 'em the good one at the same time and make sure they understand the difference.......

RYK · December 24, 2003 5:01AM

Have you gotten a second opinion on the coin? ANACS has been VERY picky lately. I recently sent them a coin for certification I knew was cleaned.

I can see the parallel hairlines with a glass. It is not awful, but as the ANACS grader told me personally, it has been "lightly cleaned." Until now, I did not have the sophistication to recognize it or care.

Maybe you should have offered the coin back to Stacks? Give THEM a chance to right the wrong?

Does that qualify for a "bwaaaahaaaahaaaaahaaaa"?

It's funny how the opinion of a 3rd party service changed your opinion of your beloved coin.

The professional grader, in person, showed me that the coin was cleaned. Maybe I am out of line here, but I do not collect cleaned coins.

I am almost afraid to admit here that I already sold the 1878 $20 with the rim ding and obvious cleaning that was given to me by my grandmother. And the Krugerands that my father gave me. Hey, these are coins, not the souls of loved ones, that I am dispossessing.

mgoodm3 · December 24, 2003 5:25AM

Must.... close.... can..... of .....worms. Next your going to tell us you sold your grandmother to gypsy's.

paigowjohnny · December 24, 2003 5:39AM

<< Make a ring out of it----------------BigE >>

Or put it in a bezel and give it to your wife as a necklace....

RYK · December 24, 2003 5:44AM

Or put it in a bezel and give it to your wife as a necklace....

My wife would give me a huge "bwaaaaahaaaaahaaaaahaaaaa....." if I did that.

IMO, just because a coin has been cleaned doesn't mean it's not desireable. Especially coins picked up as young/new collectors. You purchase coins because you like them for what they are. Because you made a mistake as a young man doesn't mean the coin is worthless.

Coins that I picked up when I was younger that I no longer collect or am interested in get sold. Period. For me, it's pretty black-and-white.

paigowjohnny · December 24, 2003 5:47AM

well...then...dump it.

lordmarcovan · December 24, 2003 6:15AM

<< It's funny how the opinion of a 3rd party service changed your opinion of your beloved coin.
I'd still keep it though. >>

What they all said- you should keep it for sentimental reasons, regardless of what the plastic might say. If it's in an ANACS net-grade holder, break it out and put it in a nice Airtite. Then you can enjoy it for its own sake without the plastic bothering you.

I still have my pride and joy from my younger collecting days in the 1970's- it's an EF45 1827 Bust half, and a lovely coin, though it'll never do anything but bodybag or net grade if submitted... even PCI red-labeled it! It's got a rim bump and was cleaned by [*ahem*coff coff*] some dumb unnamed kid who should have known better. It's retoned with some gorgeous colors, though, over the years.

I dropped out of the hobby for seven or eight years, between the time I moved off to college and the time I was settled into my first marriage. (Maybe "settled" isn't the right word, there, LOL). There were three coins I always kept, regardless, and these were all either unslabbable or "why bother" material:

1) A VG 1936 Merc dime; my very first collector coin- the one that started it all, on Thanksgiving Day, 1976.2) An AU58 but beautifully prooflike 1878-S Morgan dollar, given to me by my grandmother, who reportedly found it in my great-grandmother's desk.3) The 1827 half I mentioned above. I always figured I'd pass these down as family "heirlooms"- they're old enough to be interesting, and they have sentimental value, but they're not worth too much, so my heirs aren't likely to sell 'em off in the next generation or two! I have already passed the Morgan dollar on to my first nephew- my sister's firstborn. The half I will give away in 2027, when it is 200 years old- and I will have held it for fifty years by that time- a nice round figure.

Don't give away your "heirloom" treasures- you may regret it later. That old net-graded quarter eagle might end up being more significant to you than any of the other more valuable/higher grade pieces you will own later on. Technical grade and monetary value ain't everything. Nice of you to think of it as a giveaway, though.

Tell ya what- if you're bound and determined to give away some gold, I doubt anyone will stop you!

But keep the $2.50 and give away a modern 1/10 oz. eagle or something.

(... or a nice holed $5, $10, or $20 Liberty from the 1800's, maybe...)

1jester · December 24, 2003 6:40AM

Great Day! I don't know why everybody is insisting that RYK keep the coin. To me, it seems like a case of him wanting a divorce. Why would you keep your ex wife-around after a divorce?? Goodness! Get on with your life and throw away all vestiges and memories of that coin! I understand. I would want to get rid of it too, since it's an obvious reminder (in your face, even) of having been cheated. If your wife cheats on you, you get rid of her. For good.

Pardon the analogy, but I think it will help clarify the situation a bit more.

Besides, it is a fantastic move to give it to a young collector; it will absolutely make his/her day.

Good choice to dump the bad memories, RYK.

lordmarcovan · December 24, 2003 9:28AM

Hmm. Well, not ALL of us are so sentimental, now that Jester mentioned it...

1jester · December 24, 2003 9:45AM

Well, I'm sentimental about some things, like the Monroe Doctrine half I got from my uncle's small estate when he died when I was 8. It's in AU condition, and it always was the pride of my collection. Never mind that it's worth all of $10 today. I won't get rid of it for its sentimental value. Same thing with the 1968 Panama proof set my mom gave me nearly 20 years ago; I was born in 1968.

But RYK's coin is a different story, I'm sure.

oreville · December 24, 2003 2:39PM

RYK: Do you have any children?

If so, why not give the coin to your child (or grandchild) on some important ocassion. It does not matter if the coin has been cleaned or not.

Also isn't the coin worth at least the same if not more today than when you bought it in 1977 despite the overgrading? Can you say that about most other gifts to you from your Dad?

I agree, don't keep it but pass the buck but to one of your loved ones!

fountainheadgold · December 24, 2003 2:52PM

RKY, Keep the coin you will be happy you did

JamieB · December 24, 2003 3:10PM

I am 32. I lost my grandfather this May. He was 93. He, on several occasions gave me worthless coins that are now priceless.

He gave me a 1921 Morgan. He wanted me to wait a minute so he could clean it with silver polish ;( I wouldnt let him do it -not that it mattered since it had been cleaned before.

Another time, right after I purchased my first metal detector - I caught him down in the yard burrying something. He then leads me to the spot and goes into deep thought - scratching his head. " I think I remember loosing something over here a while back."

Of course I get the object in about 3 seconds. It was an old, poor counterfit of a roman coin. It looked like pot metal someone soldered together. Nasty thing to look at really - but - I will never forget how cute it was and what a good laugh we all got from him doing that.

Neither item will ever leave my collection.

KEEP THE COIN

Jamie B

clw54 · December 24, 2003 3:25PM

Crack it out and give it to a family member.

stman · December 24, 2003 3:27PM

As someone that has had many loved ones pass away I can understand what the originator of this thread feels. Yes it's Nice to have keepsakes from our dear beloved that have passed.... But sometimes, and after a while the material things that we once held so close are not necessary any more, and no one can really tell someone how they should handle a situation. We don't rehearse some things in life.

We hold our loved ones in our hearts forever and that's what really counts. Boy did I just say all that mush?

lordmarcovan · December 25, 2003 9:07AM

<< We hold our loved ones in our hearts forever and that's what really counts. Boy did I just say all that mush?

>>

Well-spoken.

You're allowed to say such things on Christmas.

mgoodm3 · December 25, 2003 9:16AM

Hurry up and give it away before people get too weepy.

eminem · December 25, 2003 9:24AM

If you do have a contest please post it as a the $2.50 gold contest. I would like my 5 year old to get a shot at it. He is already an avid collector...all circulated modern stuff.... He has all the folders and attacks me every day as I walk in the door. He rifles through my pockets for coins. At this point he doesn't understand the value of money but loves to add to his "collection". Lately he's been collecting bills. He has 1's 2's 5's 10's and this Christmas he has added some 20's to his "collection" . I told him to hit up grandma for the 50 and 100!!

A numismatic wrong made right--updated

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