An ??ethical?? dilemma!!! Oh my.
keets
Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
This is tough, please help me figure it out.
I was arrested for stealing from my doctor
and went to the local attorney. He defended me adequately enough, but I suspected that he double-billed me, a time honored practice amongst that profession. Knowing he was a coin collector, I worked out a deal with him whereby I could pay him in rare coins, gold specifically. I made payment with the knowledge that the coins I gave him were to be taking a steep dive in price due to a collection which was going to be liquidated, holdered and subsequently offed in auction at the F.U.N. Show by a friend of mine.
Needless to say, my attorney ended up taking a big hit in the ol' pocket, essentially representing me for free!! Now he has threatened to sue me for my unethical behavior. Any suggestions on what I should do?? Any thoughts on whether I acted unethically?? Any suggestions on how I can stop laughing, my side's starting to hurt??!!!!
Al H.
I was arrested for stealing from my doctor
and went to the local attorney. He defended me adequately enough, but I suspected that he double-billed me, a time honored practice amongst that profession. Knowing he was a coin collector, I worked out a deal with him whereby I could pay him in rare coins, gold specifically. I made payment with the knowledge that the coins I gave him were to be taking a steep dive in price due to a collection which was going to be liquidated, holdered and subsequently offed in auction at the F.U.N. Show by a friend of mine. Needless to say, my attorney ended up taking a big hit in the ol' pocket, essentially representing me for free!! Now he has threatened to sue me for my unethical behavior. Any suggestions on what I should do?? Any thoughts on whether I acted unethically?? Any suggestions on how I can stop laughing, my side's starting to hurt??!!!!
Al H.
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Comments
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<< <i>Any thoughts on whether I acted unethically?? >>
It is universally accepted among all thinking people that there is no circumstance under which it would be unethical to screw a lawyer.
Russ, NCNE
al h.
I think you hit the soft under-belly of these professionals, greed!!!
NEVER LET HIPPO MOUTH OVERLOAD HUMMINGBIRD BUTT!!!
WORK HARDER!!!!
Millions on WELFARE depend on you!
As to your little problem, as a lawyer and retired police detective, I would have to say that your attorney would have a very difficult time in suing you for your deal. First of all, I'm sure that when he took your coins as payment he had no intention of declaring them as income, since it was a "bartering" situation. But he still has to declare them as income. Secondly, the value of the coins at the time they changed hands was what it was. Speculation as to their future value would be just that: speculation. As I see it, he got what he bargained for, and if the value went down in the future, that is the risk he took in accepting a volatile commodity such as gold coins. Perhaps you didn't do the "ethical" thing, but I belive you did not do an illegal thing. Besides, most lawyers deserve whatever they get anyway.
Gary
<< <i>Besides, most lawyers deserve whatever they get anyway. >>
Welcome aboard!
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>I made payment with the knowledge that the coins I gave him were to be taking a steep dive in price due to a collection which was going to be liquidated, holdered and subsequently offed in auction at the F.U.N. Show by a friend of mine. >>
The attorney in me replies: Actually, Keets, it is impossible that you could "know" there would be a "steep dive in price". Sometimes an increase in supply causes an increase, rather than a decrease, in demand and prices.
If the prices of the coins you bartered had increased, would you have shared in the attorney's profits? I doubt it.
No unethical behavior on your part, despite your valiant efforts.
Now, the non-attorney in me says.......
personally, i really have no axe to grind with lawyers. they serve a need. where we run afoul of each other is where i run afoul of most everyone, self-righteousness. with lawyers, that generally applies to matters of the law when looked at from a practical, common sense point of view. legality and ethical behavior aren't always the same thing. a quick look at the daily news should clear that mystery up.
this little.............exercise, grew out of another thread wherein a certain attorney believes that superior intelligence brings with it an inate understanding of ethical behavior. the twist being that ethics are a very personal thing which each of us needs to decide on for ourselves. while society may indeed have laws which govern it's smooth operation and interaction of it's members, ethics are entirely different. the other thread clearly outlines that with it's varied responses and explanations for same. in a nutshell, if what i do causes me to feel uncomfortable about having done it, or brings intentional and premeditated harm to another, it's probably unethical in the sense that it runs contrary to my personal set of moral values. if, on the other hand, what i do leaves me guilt free for having done it and the act itself isn't the result of harm to another, my actions are probably ethical. either that or i'm a sociopath!! details, details..........
Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night!! i need to go tighten a few reins and wax up the sled. lift off is only a few hours away. anybody have a link to that NORAD Santa tracking page??
al h.
I believe paying someone---whether attorney, minister or average joe--in coins you were certain would soon nosedive in value is pretty slimy. But, it's your conscience not mine.
This stereotyping of lawyers is lousy. Would you like to always be negatively pre-judged by everyone before you even open your mouth? I guess I take offense because my pop was an attorney for 40 some years and is an honest, decent man.
al h.
<< <i>This stereotyping of lawyers is lousy. >>
Hey! Take that away and all we would have left is blondes.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>grew out of another thread wherein a certain attorney believes that superior intelligence brings with it an inate understanding of ethical behavior. >>
What's with the personal attacks Keets? Where did I ever say that I for one had superior intelligence or that because of such I had some inate understanding of ethics? My posts were authored with the intent to inspire thought and debate, not attack. I don't remember ever attacking you or anyone else in the thread you linked to. Matter of fact I indicated my apology if I some how upset you or anyone else for that matter. And also indicated my respect for your views.
Why the need for the tirade and diatribe is beyond me.
<< <i>in a nutshell, if what i do causes me to feel uncomfortable about having done it, or brings intentional and premeditated harm to another, it's probably unethical in the sense that it runs contrary to my personal set of moral values. >>
It appears that you don't even live by your own stated rules of conduct.
Michael
i'm not feeling uncomfortable or guilty about anything. a mensa should be able to figure that out.
al h.
i'll get you in touch with my doctor.
He gives out colostomy bags for free.
Come on, this is the world since the dawn of time; if you think differently, be glad you live in a civilized, protected society or you would not survive. We always try to gain an advantage over the other guy-it's in our nature.
Edited to add: Although why you are posting this matter is beyond me-if you are engaged in litigation you are admitting to the world the very thing the lawyer is accusing you of.
is that you end up being governed by inferiors. – Plato
people who know that life and society are a sort of game and are the only ones who read the
rule book. In theory they command a great deal of respect. In practice there are many lawyers
who are every bit of nobility and deserve great respect. And there are many more who are some
sort of ambulance chasing stereotypes. I always assume the best and allow the individual to prove
me wrong.
Be this as it may, so long as you didn't cherry pick the bags there should not be too much of an eth-
ical dilemna.
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