1879-CC Morgan new variety??

JeffB · December 22, 2003 3:13AM

All,

I'm new on this forum, so please excuse snafus, etc. I picked up a 1879-CC Morgan at a local auction about 10 years ago. The CC was actually centered between the "DO" of DOLLAR - all "known varieties" have the CC left of center. I assumed this was a fake (it was cheap) untill I saw one similar for sale (on ebay ... OK, there's also a 79-CC Trade Dollar on ebay ... just goes to show ya!). Anyone else ever see one of these?

Jeff in Marshall, Michigan

Placid · December 22, 2003 3:41AM

Sounds interesting. Have you tried looking at it for a seam around the mm?
Can you post a picture?

Wolf359 · December 22, 2003 4:09AM

Welcome! Yes, please post us a picture.

cosmos66 · December 22, 2003 4:13AM

I don't understand what you are saying about the CC. I have 6 CC Morgans here and all 6 have the CC directly between the D and O of the word DOLLAR. Are you saying this was unique to the 1879 Morgans?

Edited to change the date from 1979 to 1879 thanks to XpipedreamR

XpipedreamR · December 22, 2003 5:02AM

<< <i>I don't understand what you are saying about the CC. I have 6 CC Morgans here and all 6 have the CC directly between the D and O of the word DOLLAR. Are you saying this was unique to the 1979 Morgans? >>

Yes, this is a peculiar characteristic of the very rare 1979 Morgan dollar

Added: Oh yeah, now you change the date

JeffB · December 22, 2003 5:30AM

Yes, I've looked very carefully for a "seam" w/ 15 power and can't find one )although I expected one!) Very clean large MM. I will post a pic if I can figure out how ... attachment?

Also, yes, the 79-CC is unique in the fact that all known varieties are a bit to left of center ... that's what makes this one fun!

Jeff in Marshall, Michigan

Placid · December 22, 2003 5:31AM

Yes attachment. Thread here with directions.

coinguy1 · December 22, 2003 5:36AM

<< <i>OK, there's also a 79-CC Trade Dollar on ebay >>

JeffB - perhaps there is a typo? There are no 1879-CC Trade Dollars and, in fact, no business strike 1879 Trade dollars either. They were all struck as Proofs.

PS - welcome to the forums.

JeffB · December 22, 2003 5:40AM

Well, I attached a picture of one of the 1879 CC centered MM ... I wonder if we can see it??

Placid · December 22, 2003 5:47AM

JeffB · December 22, 2003 5:48AM

Mark,

Take a look at this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2211999072&category=11978

If it's real, you have to at least attribute the finding to me!!

Jeff in Marshall, MI

dollardude · December 22, 2003 5:50AM

Welcome to the forums. I am new this year myself.

This is a very good question. I looked at my 1879-CC PCGS VG08 (non capped die), and it indeed has a "CC" mintmark that is slightly to the upper left of the middle of the "DO". I never knew this. I checked my The Comprehensive U.S. Silver Dollar Encyclopedia by John Highfill, and it only explained the difference between the noncapped die and the capped die varieties. I highly recommend this reference if you collect Morgan silver dollars. This one has stumped me. I have no idea. You may want to check a VAM book. Good luck in the research.

dollardude · December 22, 2003 5:58AM

Jeff,

Concerning that trade dollar, there's no such thing to my knowledge. I'm 99% sure it's a fake.

Man, that seller's got lousy feedback!

Dan

coinguy1 · December 22, 2003 6:00AM

Jeff, I looked at the Ebay listing. It must be a fake, and one of a date that doesn't even exist, at that. I will NOT be bidding on it.

Placid · December 22, 2003 6:20AM

I could not find a match looking at about 40 of them.
Can you post the obverse also?

JeffB · December 22, 2003 7:03AM

J.S. here is the Obverse of the 79-CC. I have another set of pics of a similar coin (in about VG condition) from an ebay auction - I did not buy it as it went way too high.

Jeff

cosmos66 · December 22, 2003 7:12AM

<< <i>J.S. here is the Obverse of the 79-CC. I have another set of pics of a similar coin (in about VG condition) from an ebay auction - I did not buy it as it went way too high.

Jeff >>

Looks like the reverse to me but I could be wrong.

JeffB · December 22, 2003 7:15AM

Just wanted to see if you guys are as good as I thought (and now I will try to learn this system!! Here is the Obv ...

Placid · December 22, 2003 12:11PM

MrEureka · December 22, 2003 12:34PM

Interesting coin! From the photos, the reverse looks like it might be a real CC and the obverse looks like a 79-P or S. Perhaps it's a fake made from two coins?

Edited to say that however the coin was made, it's definitely fake. The obverse is not from Carson City.

dollardude · December 22, 2003 12:42PM

Jeff, I'm beginning to think it might not be real myself! I checked the more common internet web sites like VAMlink and Magnifications of Common VAMs for the more common VAMs, and came up short. You'll have to research this using a very detailed VAM book like the one at Comprehensive Catalog and Encyclopedia of VAM Morgan & Peace Silver Dollars. I just don't get into VAMs this deeply myself.

Edited to Add: Jeff, everyone here knows I'm a guy who likes to keep things simple. I took a step back and looked at your coin, and compared it against several of mine. I discovered that the rims are sharp when uncirculated, and become wide when circulated (as it wears down). Your obverse rim is sharp like it should be, but your reverse rim is wide. It looks like someone may have produced a counterfeit coin by simply slicing two coins down the middle, soldering them together, and tapping the reverse in place (then flattening out the reverse to even out the tapping marks). That would explain the problem with the "CC" mintmark in the wrong place. This is only a theory, of course.

Gilbert · December 22, 2003 8:18PM

I would be highly suspect of this reverse, as it matches none of the attributed descriptions, as you've mentioned.

Have you also checked just inside the denticles for seams; they aren't always put together along the rim.

If you have confidence in the coin's authenticity, submit it.

JeffB · December 22, 2003 9:55PM

It may be a fake, but probably not from 2 coins. I could "send it in" but this is too much fun. Take a look at this reverse of a 79-CC that was on ebay ... the condition, etc. matched the obv so it is a 79 (as best one can tell). The MM is not exactly the same but, again, not like any other I've seen; nice and centered: - Jeff

JeffB · December 22, 2003 10:48PM

Anyone subscribed to this thread please take a look at the new topcic "The 1879-CC Morgan IS A FAKE"

Thanks to all that helped! - Jeff

1jester · December 23, 2003 12:19AM

The knowledge of the people on this board never ceases to amaze me!!!

coinguy1 · December 23, 2003 5:51AM

I'm also happy to report that I contacted the Ebay seller who had listed the "1879-CC Trade Dollar" and he ended his sale.

He wasn't a bad guy - he just didn't know there was no such coin.

1879-CC Morgan new variety??

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