Maybe it really is Legit....now I am going to start looking for Santa and the Easter Bunny....looks like I may even be buying you all drinks at ANA Yet I am still concerned because Western Union wants me to ship it to address below and Vivian wants to send couier to pick it up? Another thing, they have mentioned that they want this item as a Christmas gift and need it right away? Yikes I really am wound up way to tight.....
Dear Jon Lerner:
A $550.10 money order for payment of eBay item #2207051737 has been approved. Andrew S Yuen has chosen to use Western Union® Auction Payments for the speed of an online payment service from a name you can trust.
Should you decide to send the item while your money order is on its way to you, the buyer's shipping information is provided below. Your money order will be sent by the close of the next business day after you receive this email. First Class mail is typically delivered within 7-10 business days.
Shipping information: Andrew S Yuen 2-12 Kwai Fat Road, 11-A Kwai Chung, NT 00000 Hong Kong asyuen@netvigator.com
If the buyer has requested that the item be sent to any address other than the one provided above, please do not ship the item and notify us immediately. Go to http://www.auctionpayments.com/contactus.asp. Be sure to include the Western Union Auction Payments order number and the change of address the buyer has requested. Also, include "change of address" as the subject of your email.
Thank you for using Western Union® Auction Payments. We look forward to serving your online auction payment needs in the future.
Sincerely, Western Union Auction Payments --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL. IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS PLEASE VISIT http://www.auctionpayments.com/faqIndex.asp
This is from Western Union WebSite...good advice from them.....
Common Consumer Fraud Scenarios:
Be wary if you are required to pay a fee before receiving a loan.
Beware of sweepstakes, prize or lottery company representatives who tell you to transfer money to them in order to claim a prize you've won. There are many companies running fraudulent contests that ask you to transfer them money but give you nothing in return.
Beware of unsolicited letters or emails from a Nigerian or other foreign government official requesting assistance in the transfer of excess funds from a foreign country into your bank account.
Beware of telephone calls from the police claiming someone you know has been in an accident or arrested and is requesting money.
Beware of unsolicited letters or emails offering an unrealistic price for expensive or difficult to find merchandise.
Stay informed. Keep abreast of consumer fraud trends. A few excellent sources of information include your local newspaper and websites hosted by the United States Federal Trade Commission and the National Association of Attorney's General.
Contact your State Attorney General's Office of Consumer Affairs if you are uncertain or suspicious of a telephone, mail or email solicitation.
I would not send the coins until the money order is CASHED. DO NOT allow anyone the "Baron" sends to pick up at your home! YOU are the shipper, YOU chose how to send it. If he needs it so fast, tell him you will send it Fedx when the money order is cashed. Glenn
Tonights Chapter.....I received an email from Pam who is a ebay seller who has same concern.....I told her I would post her email to get the boards thoughts...she also doesnt know if she should ship or what she should do.... Jon
HI JON! WELL, I HAVE BEEREADING THE THREAD YOU SENT ME & I'M IN A TIZZY AS TO WHAT I SHOULD DO! THE PAYPAL ADD'Y THAT HE GAVE ME WAS:
ANDREW STEPHEN YUEN 30 KENNEDY ROAD 8th FLOOR HONG KONG, HONG KONG
I AM GOING TO WRITE TO HIM NOW & LET HIM KNOW THAT I WILL ONLY SHIP TO SOMEONE WITH A CONFIRMED E-MAIL ADDRESS THROUGH PAYPAL..HAVE YOU E-MAILED ANY OTHER SELLERS AS TO HOW THEIR SALE WENT? WISH ME LUCK! HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO YOU! THANX, PAM )
Well I have sold to South Korea,Japan,Germany, Italy and such. . My items were Western Electric Radio tubes. Big buck items. $350 to $500 for the better ones. They are used in High Fi audio systems that the tech heads build themselves. I have accepted Bidpay,Paypal and registered mail with cash. Never had a problem with each. Was weary about shipping overseas but they all were delivered. Loved Bidpay. The buyer was hit with the charges not me. Cash took the prize though. If your still leary, before you hit the bank with the check, I wonder if you could head over to a Western Union office and see if they can verify the check. There must be transaction numbers on the thing somewhere. Shipping with the US Post Office is a little tricky. Thier Global Express insured dealy thing only insures it to the county(ie Japan) After that they(Japan's postal service) takes over and it's up in the air at that point. I had to have the USPS teller explain that to me a couple of times because I was under the wrong impression with that one. Still am. Since I'm running out of tubes, but still have some left, one day i'll put the rest on. I'm going to have to check into a different shipping method. Tom
To anyone shipping out of the country---Get an irrevocable letter of credit from the buyer drawn on a US Bank, and the proceeds paid to you in US dollars---call your bank, its easy.
This is the first time I've read thru a 100+ thread in its entirety - besides making it a must read - this will help and alert many to possible scams abound.
My gut feeling is you should be buyung everyone drinks @FUN .....but not b/c you where wrong - I strongly believe they are making good on this transaction so he/she/they can go on and lure bigger fish without getting busted so quick. Good for you - Keep us posted.
<< <i>Open a new savings account and have him wire money into it and ship him his coins to Hong Kong.
Edit: Throw 90% of your fine print away, just stick to the facts and lose the commentary (and the part about the pumkin contest from 2 years ago) >>
Jon: This is the best advice I have read so far in this long, interesting thread. I have been watching your eBay auctions for four years now, but have never placed a serious bid. I enjoy your sense of humor, and remember some old descriptions when you mentioned how the coins came in to your shop, with a liberal use of the word "folks". However, I am personally turned off by auctions with more disclaimers than descriptions. It seems your "small itsy bitsy legal dept." has way too much space in your auctions.
I see that your "itsy bitsy" department has finally deleted the confusing invitiation to foreign bidders. However, they include a line saying that slabbed slabbed coins -- including Accugrade-- are guaranteed by the companyl
I have shipped over 7,000 items from eBay auctions I have posted, most of which were paid through Paypal. At least half of my PayPal payments include an unconfirmed address. I have never had a PayPal chargeback. On the other hand, my auctions (mostly for used computer parts) state in bold print that I ship to the U.S. and Canada only. Perhaps one out of 200 items I ship are to winning bidders who ignore the bold print, and none have been for more than $120.
I look forward to reading the rest of this thread and seeing how this plays out. So far, it's too confusing for me to call.
"Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity" - Hanlon's Razor
after all this FOLKS, I think I am the one who needs a drink.....this morning chapter keep on reading....... I wrote yesterday We have received notice that a payment is on its way ...
Your money order will be sent by the close of the next business day after you receive this email. First Class mail is typically delivered within 7-10 business days.
I will be in touch with you when we receive payment... thank you... Todays morning email.....
Dear Mr. Lerner,
I have instructed Western Union to deliver your money order by next day express service. Please confirm upon receipt.
Thanks and regards, Vivien Au-Yeung Assistant to Baron Yuen of Aveley
I don't see why everybody seems ready to call this buyer a fraud when the buyer has so far done everything asked and has offered good suggestions on how to pay and keep the seller happy.
My limited experience with foreign buyers is that many are well-heeled and pay silly-high prices for stuff that we think is not worth that much (silver rounds for one is in this category). The notion of "have to have it at any price" seems commonplace in some circles. My two cents is that the seller ought to send Vivian a note thanking her for being so effective in putting it all together.
I had a guy from italy tell me he was going to buy several laptops from me for a few grand...........i got a very professional looking email staing western union is sending a money order...............well it never came. he had a link to a western union looking site...not the real one though.
i went to the real site and the tracking number or invoice number he gave me did not come up as valid.
he went away and stopped sending emails and i never got my money....and he never got his laptops.
WAIT for check/money order to be cleared then send it.
Family, kids, coins, sports (playing not watching), jet skiing, wakeboarding, Big Air....no one ever got hurt in the air....its the sudden stop that hurts. I hate Hurricane Sandy. I hate FEMA and i hate the blasted insurance companies.
HI EVERYONE! I am the gal who Jon wrote about that about the sale of the coin to "his highness"...lol I did take a chance & asked him to please get a confirmed address & then send through paypal which he did right away so i sent the coin off today! Wish me luck OK? & I will keep you posted as to what happens Happy Holidays to all! Pamster
Today I think we are getting to the end of the book.....we received a Western Union Check...I am going around the corner this afternoon to a Western Union center and I will try to cash it....... looks like Im buying a lot of at ANA this spring.....
PS: We even got a new member to the boards out of this......welcome PAM...
if the check clears, how are you going to ship?? FED EX, UPS, USPS? or do they have a courier that will pick it up at your door?
I like the new format on your fine print - much easier to read
I also liked your book you had for sale that coin dealers don't want you to know about - not $250 worth or even $80 worth - but did find one on the net that will hopefully show up at my door for $20
When I get rich, I think I will have a personal assistant - just think of the time Vivien spent so far in trying to complete this transaction
do you have a personal assistant? or did you do all of the work on your own?
I realize it is a big pain in the rear - but by limiting to only US customers, you will lower your ending sales prices some - I have no idea how much - just 1 more bidder, that may not even win the item - could bump up final value $50 on something like that Franklin mint set
if the check clears...I will ship usps global express I think it is called takes about 5-7 days and my estimated cost from the post office for an 8lb box was around $40 dollars + I dont remember the exact wait but it will be pretty close.... Glad you all like the new format...if I have time I will try to improve it a bit more...tighten it up etc...and lose the part about all the other slab companies.... the book was fun...its very interesting and I was almost sad that I sold it...one of those things that I may want for my self.... guess if I sell enough I can get my own personal assistant...Vivien is very good...most people probably would have given up on me long time ago.... yes I think the limit of US does cut my price...but thats ok sometimes just making a fair amount easy is better than squeezing every last penny out of it...funny thing is I got an email this morning from a guy in France who wants to bid on one of my items...so I guess if someone really wants something they will still email and I can make seperate arrangements.....well its been quite an interesting thread....and I think it will finally fade away now....thanks again everyone...I will let you know if anything else interesting happens....
Wow. It's surprising when a (probable)reputable buyer uses all of the scam tricks just to fool you. He may have decided to pay just because the scam was figured out. Ya never know what might happen to more trusting seller in the future.
Well, this has been a fascinating story! The good part is now that you know how to ensure good funds on international shipments, you can be one of the few sellers who sell out of the US!
Congrats on a happy ending, and give my best to Vivien.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>Well, this has been a fascinating story! The good part is now that you know how to ensure good funds on international shipments, you can be one of the few sellers who sell out of the US! >>
No, actually more than 50% of eBay seller do ship internationally when I ask politely even if they write that they do not in their descriptions.
I still don't understand why ScarsdaleCoin started this thread when he clearly has some responsibility to recieve a bid from outside U.S. If you want to bid from outside US you MUST USE PAYPAL FOR PAYMENT! ALSO YOU MUST DOUBLE THE STATED SHIPPING COSTS While he wrote he won't ship internationally, he also wrote above in his description and it's VERY confusing. Did Mr. Yuen really do something wrong that deserves to be bashed on the public space???... with his e-mail revealed??
And seems like this seller got more than $50 for shipping and insurance. In his description, he says that international buyers should DOUBLE THE STATED SHIPPING COSTS and the stated cost is $10 for a item under$1000..so the shipping/handling should be $20 in this case. What is this? Is this cheating?
What really upsets me is a seller like this scares other seller and make them stay away from shipping internationally when the buyer did nothing really wrong.
NOW WE KNOW WHY I GOT PAID.....YOU FIGURE IT OUT..... READ ANOTHER CHAPTER
Dear Mr. Lerner,
I am glad that you have cashed the cheque. Now that you have received your payment, I would appreciate that you retract the message you left on Collectors Universe. Baron Yuen is not yet aware of this message as he is travelling. However, I am sure he would not be amused when he finds out about this. He has actually alerted our legal staff to take action against you should you write anything that might affect his reputation. I hope you understand the severity of the issue although you did not mean to do anything to hurt Baron Yuen's name. But if the press or the House of Lords pick up the message, it may cause some un-necessary explanation on Baron Yuen's part.
Thank you very much for the understanding. I just wish to settle this matter before it gets out of hand.
Kind regards, Vivien Au-Yeung Assistant to Baron Yuen of Aveley
<< <i>...Baron Yuen is not yet aware of this message as he is travelling. However, I am sure he would not be amused when he finds out about this. He has actually alerted our legal staff to take action against you should you write anything that might affect his reputation. >>
hmmm, Vivien is slipping, methinks.
why would he alert the "legal staff" if he is "not yet aware" of the message?
I don't think she is "slipping". Early on in the saga, Jon (Scarsdalecoin) quoted part of his "fine print" about "you scammers have gotten me once before...." and sent that to the "Baron". The response that was posted was one that the "baron" said he took offense to. If completely legit (and, it looks like it may be), then he could have alerted any legal staff just in case Jon did more that was similar and not wanted.
Jon, I am glad you got your money.
Pam, I hope all goes well with your stuff too as you had the paypal route.
Jon....if he doesn't turn out as a scammer, you could have "alerted" many of the sellers he was buying from unnecessarily. I hope you also let them know that you got paid and that he did follow through with you. I don't think it is finished until you at least do that. Personally, I also think you should send Vivien and the baron email and say you are happy things worked out, everyone learned new things from the "hassle" and tell them thanks. You went to a lot to protect yourself (and that is good) that also had her/him jumping through a lot of hoops...which they did to each one.
Fascinating story. Although much ado over nothing. The paranoia and accusations, not only by the originator, but others also. I am stunned that this was made public, when it should have been handled privately. Confusing longwinded policies, filled with contradictions. The main cause of all this. This man, obviously takes his position seriously. Nothing wrong with that. Paid exactly as asked to in the confusing rhetoric. And then paid again! Upheld his end of a simple? buy. Seller received his money. Buyer will receive his goods. A simple retraction requested. "I will ignore this message, have a nice day." ???? Possibly a lost customer(s) Business must be good. Won't always be.
The great use of life is to spend it on something that will outlast it--James Truslow Adams
I can't wait for the next chapter in "International Intrigue and Royalty", maybe it will be "Scarsdalecoin Gets Extradited to Hong Kong" to face trial in the mean Barons court------What do you think the next chapter will be titled?---------------------------------------------------------------BigE
My response to the Most Royal Holiness Highness Right Honorable His Excellency and most righteous Barron Von Onion and his assistant Vivian:
" We do not respond to threats from so-called royalty regarding free speech restriction vis. a vis. the first amendment. You see, dearest barron, we live in a constitutional republic and do not respond to orders from those who inherit bestowed titles, We therefore recomend that his royal highness fly the perverbial kite"
The Barron Von Onion has a hard time with listening skills. If you recall, when you initially emailed him letting him know that you did not take international bids. He said " Ok, I 've initiated the bidding process", Its like talking to a wall. You are civil in your discourse, but he tries to flatter you and do the exact opposite. This is the mark of a true scam artist. What he has done is earn your trust on the first run, subsequent to this, he will try to scam you. These are tactics employed by the Nigerian gangs and the Russian mafia. They are expert at gaining confidence on the first run, then they flatter, and subsequently take the money on further auctions and run. Hey Barron: Three questions: 1. Can you spell "CYBERTERRORISM" ? 2. Can you spell "DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY" ? 3. Can you understand that the seller's description reads. " No international buyers or shipments"
Take that to your legal department and ask them about breach of contract.!!!!!!!!!!!
The most honorable Barron Von Full Band. Assistant to the Prince of 16D Subordinate to the jurisdiction of Micro-s.
I love to give folks the benefit of the doubt, but this is starting to border on the absurd with the amount of labor involved in this one transaction for $500. I am all for a global economy, but he has no reason to threaten Scarsdale with legal action because Scarsdale started this thread. Nothing has been said that was derogatory and the so-called barron is the one who legally breached the contract by not following the seller's instructions on purpose.
I've seen many of your posts and have a lot of respect for you, but, your stance and words on this thread are, IMHO, ridiculous. I don't know if you have been taken in scams or from someone in Hong Kong or something, and that is why you are saying what you are, but I think it is sad with what you are stating. For instance, you keep on that this is a scam and that Jon is being set up for another scam. What is this baron guy pays everybody he just bought from? Are they all being set up? Now that Jon knows the western union bit, and how to get the cash from it, don't you think that if the baron did try to buy from him again that Jon would go the same amount to be protected? I think Jon is smart enough to do that.
Also, as has been stated a few times, Jon had set it in his auction from ebay to state no non-US bidders BUT in his "fine print"...since changed....he also stated that shipping to non-US addresses would cost double the stated shipping charge. Now, have you dealt with many non-US people? His English seems written very well, but maybe that is very time consuming. He probably read that no non-US bidders were wanted, wanted to ask anyway in case it was a shipping cost thing, or whatever, and while waiting for a reply, read in the fine print that shipping to non-US would be double.
YOU don't find that confusing? The fact that the auction stated no non-US were wanted but at the same time, it mentions (in what the seller would have had to put in the description..not what ebay has a checkbox for) that non-US bidders could pay double the shipping???? I have dealt with our Asian counterparts, in business, for the last 7 years. I am always amazed at how some of them seem to grasp our language (much better than I grasp theirs) and yet small things seem to pop up that cause consternation. At first, I thought they were doing it on purpose (and, some of them probably do), but I have found that most of them honestly miss the connection or thoughts on some things or just don't understand.
Brian...warnings about scams are fine, and joking is fine, but, I think you have taken things in a mean way on this....other than Jon (and Pam), no one on this thread has had any contact with this baron. We don't know how "refined" he is. We don't know if he is honest or a scammer. We know nothing but that which Jon has posted (and, Jon has seemed to want to post both sides, so that is cool).
I just don't think "we" should further carry on like this is a scam or say things like you have said in your latest posts (where YOU have actually misread or taken things out of context.......ie...the part about him bidding anyway AFTER being told by Jon not to bid).
<< <i>The Barron Von Onion has a hard time with listening skills. He probably has a hard time with English If you recall, when you initially emailed him letting him know that you did not take international bids. He said " Ok, I 've initiated the bidding process", Its like talking to a wall. Like was previously stated, English is not only probably not his native tongue and hard for him, but Jon's ebay posting was contradictory You are civil in your discourse, but he tries to flatter you and do the exact opposite. And, you have never tried to do that to get something you wanted? Especially if you couldn't find it anywhere else? Ever try to flatter your GF/wife to "get something"? This is the mark of a true scam artist. True, scam artists do this. They are not the only ones though. I think Jon has handled the financial part well and won't be scammed What he has done is earn your trust on the first run, subsequent to this, he will try to scam you. These are tactics employed by the Nigerian gangs and the Russian mafia. They are expert at gaining confidence on the first run, then they flatter, and subsequently take the money on further auctions and run. True again, but if Jon handles anything the same way for payment, then I don't think he will be scammed
Hey Barron: Three questions: 1. Can you spell "CYBERTERRORISM" ? 2. Can you spell "DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY" ? 3. Can you understand that the seller's description reads. " No international buyers or shipments" English is MY first language, but I don't get why you put #1 and #2 here.....for #3, I will repeat.....READ THE SELLER'S ORIGINAL DESCRIPTION AGAIN YOURSELF! It had contradictory/confusing messaging about international buyers. Take that to your legal department and ask them about breach of contract.!!!!!!!!!!!
The most honorable Barron Von Full Band. Assistant to the Prince of 16D Subordinate to the jurisdiction of Micro-s.
------------------------- Brian Ostro ANA R-179758 ~Advanced collector of the finest PCGS Mercury dimes in MS66-68~ . >>
edited to fix a typo, add that the bolded parts in the quote by Brian are actually my comments in that quote, and to apologize for how long the post is....
Yes, yes, yet, all very cudly and politically correct and nice warm fuzzy, but missing the point that Scarsdale is right and Barron Von Onion is wrong. Not to mention that Scarsdale is being threatened with legal action because of putting up this thread. So some are preaching tollerance of language barriers and international bidders, but everyone seems to be missing the point that a good board member is being threatened by this moron of a barron with legal action. This is when my threshold for tollerance ends.
Comments
Yet I am still concerned because Western Union wants me to ship it to address below and Vivian wants to send couier to pick it up? Another thing, they have mentioned that they want this item as a Christmas gift and need it right away? Yikes I really am wound up way to tight.....
Dear Jon Lerner:
A $550.10 money order for payment of eBay item #2207051737 has been approved. Andrew S Yuen has chosen to use Western Union® Auction Payments for the speed of an online payment service from a name you can trust.
Should you decide to send the item while your money order is on its way to you, the buyer's shipping information is provided below. Your money order will be sent by the close of the next business day after you receive this email. First Class mail is typically delivered within 7-10 business days.
Shipping information:
Andrew S Yuen
2-12 Kwai Fat Road, 11-A
Kwai Chung, NT 00000
Hong Kong
asyuen@netvigator.com
If the buyer has requested that the item be sent to any address other than the one provided above, please do not ship the item and notify us immediately. Go to http://www.auctionpayments.com/contactus.asp. Be sure to include the Western Union Auction Payments order number and the change of address the buyer has requested. Also, include "change of address" as the subject of your email.
Thank you for using Western Union® Auction Payments. We look forward to serving your online auction payment needs in the future.
Sincerely,
Western Union Auction Payments
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL. IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS PLEASE VISIT http://www.auctionpayments.com/faqIndex.asp
Common Consumer Fraud Scenarios:
Be wary if you are required to pay a fee before receiving a loan.
Beware of sweepstakes, prize or lottery company representatives who tell you to transfer money to them in order to claim a prize you've won. There are many companies running fraudulent contests that ask you to transfer them money but give you nothing in return.
Beware of unsolicited letters or emails from a Nigerian or other foreign government official requesting assistance in the transfer of excess funds from a foreign country into your bank account.
Beware of telephone calls from the police claiming someone you know has been in an accident or arrested and is requesting money.
Beware of unsolicited letters or emails offering an unrealistic price for expensive or difficult to find merchandise.
Stay informed. Keep abreast of consumer fraud trends. A few excellent sources of information include your local newspaper and websites hosted by the United States Federal Trade Commission and the National Association of Attorney's General.
Contact your State Attorney General's Office of Consumer Affairs if you are uncertain or suspicious of a telephone, mail or email solicitation.
J&J Coins
website
Wild Ebay Toners for sale
The big O
<< <i>looks like I may even be buying you all drinks at ANA >>
You're welcome. I'll be at FUN. I only drink 1787 Chateau Lafite, a Bordeaux.
Glenn
HI JON! WELL, I HAVE BEEREADING THE THREAD YOU SENT ME & I'M IN A TIZZY AS TO WHAT I SHOULD DO! THE PAYPAL ADD'Y THAT HE GAVE ME WAS:
ANDREW STEPHEN YUEN
30 KENNEDY ROAD
8th FLOOR
HONG KONG,
HONG KONG
I AM GOING TO WRITE TO HIM NOW & LET HIM KNOW THAT I WILL ONLY SHIP TO SOMEONE WITH A CONFIRMED E-MAIL ADDRESS THROUGH PAYPAL..HAVE YOU E-MAILED ANY OTHER SELLERS AS TO HOW THEIR SALE WENT?
WISH ME LUCK!
HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO YOU!
THANX, PAM
<< <i>I drink 1787 Chateau Lafite, a Bordeaux.
>>
I wouldn't wash my CAR with a 1787 Chateau Lafite
Silver American Eagles ROCK
2 delivery addresses! do NOT ship, return ALL money, report him to eBay immediately!
Glenn
I have sold to South Korea,Japan,Germany, Italy and such. . My items were Western Electric Radio tubes. Big buck items. $350 to $500 for the better ones. They are used in High Fi audio systems that the tech heads build themselves.
I have accepted Bidpay,Paypal and registered mail with cash. Never had a problem with each. Was weary about shipping overseas but they all were delivered.
Loved Bidpay. The buyer was hit with the charges not me. Cash took the prize though.
If your still leary, before you hit the bank with the check, I wonder if you could head over to a Western Union office and see if they can verify the check. There must be transaction numbers on the thing somewhere.
Shipping with the US Post Office is a little tricky. Thier Global Express insured dealy thing only insures it to the county(ie Japan) After that they(Japan's postal service) takes over and it's up in the air at that point. I had to have the USPS teller explain that to me a couple of times because I was under the wrong impression with that one. Still am.
Since I'm running out of tubes, but still have some left, one day i'll put the rest on. I'm going to have to check into a different shipping method.
Tom
This is the first time I've read thru a 100+ thread in its entirety - besides making it a must read - this will help and alert many to possible scams abound.
My gut feeling is you should be buyung everyone drinks @FUN .....but not b/c you where wrong - I strongly believe they are making good on this transaction so he/she/they can go on and lure bigger fish without getting busted so quick. Good for you - Keep us posted.
Marc
<< <i>Open a new savings account and have him wire money into it and ship him his coins to Hong Kong.
Edit: Throw 90% of your fine print away, just stick to the facts and lose the commentary (and the part about the pumkin contest from 2 years ago) >>
Jon: This is the best advice I have read so far in this long, interesting thread. I have been watching your eBay auctions for four years now, but have never placed a serious bid. I enjoy your sense of humor, and remember some old descriptions when you mentioned how the coins came in to your shop, with a liberal use of the word "folks". However, I am personally turned off by auctions with more disclaimers than descriptions. It seems your "small itsy bitsy legal dept." has way too much space in your auctions.
I see that your "itsy bitsy" department has finally deleted the confusing invitiation to foreign bidders. However, they include a line saying that slabbed slabbed coins -- including Accugrade-- are guaranteed by the companyl
I have shipped over 7,000 items from eBay auctions I have posted, most of which were paid through Paypal. At least half of my PayPal payments include an unconfirmed address. I have never had a PayPal chargeback. On the other hand, my auctions (mostly for used computer parts) state in bold print that I ship to the U.S. and Canada only. Perhaps one out of 200 items I ship are to winning bidders who ignore the bold print, and none have been for more than $120.
I look forward to reading the rest of this thread and seeing how this plays out. So far, it's too confusing for me to call.
I wrote yesterday
We have received notice that a payment is on its way ...
Your money order will be sent by the close of the next business day after you receive this email. First Class mail is typically delivered within 7-10 business days.
I will be in touch with you when we receive payment...
thank you...
Todays morning email.....
Dear Mr. Lerner,
I have instructed Western Union to deliver your money order by next day express service. Please confirm upon receipt.
Thanks and regards,
Vivien Au-Yeung
Assistant to Baron Yuen of Aveley
immagic
Hello , He made the payment with paypal, I think he is ok . Actually I have chatted with him. I would say so far so good.
I don't see why everybody seems ready to call this buyer a fraud when the buyer has so far done everything asked and has offered good suggestions on how to pay and keep the seller happy.
My limited experience with foreign buyers is that many are well-heeled and pay silly-high prices for stuff that we think is not worth that much (silver rounds for one is in this category). The notion of "have to have it at any price" seems commonplace in some circles. My two cents is that the seller ought to send Vivian a note thanking her for being so effective in putting it all together.
I keep hearing how you Westchesterites think we are from another world altogether!
But then Army's (West Point is in Orange County) football team finishing 0-13 might just prove it?
I had a guy from italy tell me he was going to buy several laptops from me for a few grand...........i got a very professional looking email staing western union is sending a money order...............well it never came. he had a link to a western union looking site...not the real one though.
i went to the real site and the tracking number or invoice number he gave me did not come up as valid.
he went away and stopped sending emails and i never got my money....and he never got his laptops.
WAIT for check/money order to be cleared then send it.
I did take a chance & asked him to please get a confirmed address & then send through paypal which he did right away so i sent the coin off today! Wish me luck OK? & I will keep you posted as to what happens
Happy Holidays to all! Pamster
Welcome to the boards.
I have my fingers crossed for both of you.
Jerry
PS: We even got a new member to the boards out of this......welcome PAM...
if the check clears, how are you going to ship?? FED EX, UPS, USPS? or do they have a courier that will pick it up at your door?
I like the new format on your fine print - much easier to read
I also liked your book you had for sale that coin dealers don't want you to know about - not $250 worth or even $80 worth - but did find one on the net that will hopefully show up at my door for $20
When I get rich, I think I will have a personal assistant - just think of the time Vivien spent so far in trying to complete this transaction
do you have a personal assistant? or did you do all of the work on your own?
I realize it is a big pain in the rear - but by limiting to only US customers, you will lower your ending sales prices some - I have no idea how much - just 1 more bidder, that may not even win the item - could bump up final value $50 on something like that Franklin mint set
the book was fun...its very interesting and I was almost sad that I sold it...one of those things that I may want for my self....
guess if I sell enough I can get my own personal assistant...Vivien is very good...most people probably would have given up on me long time ago....
yes I think the limit of US does cut my price...but thats ok sometimes just making a fair amount easy is better than squeezing every last penny out of it...funny thing is I got an email this morning from a guy in France who wants to bid on one of my items...so I guess if someone really wants something they will still email and I can make seperate arrangements.....well its been quite an interesting thread....and I think it will finally fade away now....thanks again everyone...I will let you know if anything else interesting happens....
hand clerk check..... she calls bidpay and its good and hands me the $ 550
here is the laugh...she never asks to see my ID, never has me sign the back of the check.....
good thing Im honest or I could just claim I never got it..LOL
Have a great Weekend.....I need a drink
Congrats on a happy ending, and give my best to Vivien.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>Well, this has been a fascinating story! The good part is now that you know how to ensure good funds on international shipments, you can be one of the few sellers who sell out of the US! >>
No, actually more than 50% of eBay seller do ship internationally when I ask politely even if they write that they do not in their descriptions.
I still don't understand why ScarsdaleCoin started this thread when he clearly has some responsibility to recieve a bid from outside U.S.
If you want to bid from outside US you MUST USE PAYPAL FOR PAYMENT! ALSO YOU MUST DOUBLE THE STATED SHIPPING COSTS
While he wrote he won't ship internationally, he also wrote above in his description and it's VERY confusing.
Did Mr. Yuen really do something wrong that deserves to be bashed on the public space???... with his e-mail revealed??
And seems like this seller got more than $50 for shipping and insurance. In his description, he says that international buyers should DOUBLE THE STATED SHIPPING COSTS and the stated cost is $10 for a item under$1000..so the shipping/handling should be $20 in this case. What is this? Is this cheating?
What really upsets me is a seller like this scares other seller and make them stay away from shipping internationally when the buyer did nothing really wrong.
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me. . . . . . .
NOW WE KNOW WHY I GOT PAID.....YOU FIGURE IT OUT..... READ ANOTHER CHAPTER
Dear Mr. Lerner,
I am glad that you have cashed the cheque. Now that you have received your payment, I would appreciate that you retract the message you left on Collectors Universe. Baron Yuen is not yet aware of this message as he is travelling. However, I am sure he would not be amused when he finds out about this. He has actually alerted our legal staff to take action against you should you write anything that might affect his reputation. I hope you understand the severity of the issue although you did not mean to do anything to hurt Baron Yuen's name. But if the press or the House of Lords pick up the message, it may cause some un-necessary explanation on Baron Yuen's part.
Thank you very much for the understanding. I just wish to settle this matter before it gets out of hand.
Kind regards,
Vivien Au-Yeung
Assistant to Baron Yuen of Aveley
I will ignore this message and you have a nice day.......
<< <i>...Baron Yuen is not yet aware of this message as he is travelling. However, I am sure he would not be amused when he finds out about this. He has actually alerted our legal staff to take action against you should you write anything that might affect his reputation. >>
hmmm, Vivien is slipping, methinks.
why would he alert the "legal staff" if he is "not yet aware" of the message?
hmmmm...
<< <i>But if the press or the House of Lords pick up the message, it may cause some un-necessary explanation on Baron Yuen's part. >>
The press? The House of Lords? Must be pretty boring in Hong Kong this time of year.
Russ, NCNE
I don't think she is "slipping".
Early on in the saga, Jon (Scarsdalecoin) quoted part of his "fine print" about "you scammers have gotten me once before...." and sent that to the "Baron".
The response that was posted was one that the "baron" said he took offense to.
If completely legit (and, it looks like it may be), then he could have alerted any legal staff just in case Jon did more that was similar and not wanted.
Jon, I am glad you got your money.
Pam, I hope all goes well with your stuff too as you had the paypal route.
Jon....if he doesn't turn out as a scammer, you could have "alerted" many of the sellers he was buying from unnecessarily. I hope you also let them know that you got paid and that he did follow through with you. I don't think it is finished until you at least do that.
Personally, I also think you should send Vivien and the baron email and say you are happy things worked out, everyone learned new things from the "hassle" and tell them thanks.
You went to a lot to protect yourself (and that is good) that also had her/him jumping through a lot of hoops...which they did to each one.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Although much ado over nothing.
The paranoia and accusations, not only by the originator, but others also.
I am stunned that this was made public, when it should have been handled privately.
Confusing longwinded policies, filled with contradictions.
The main cause of all this.
This man, obviously takes his position seriously.
Nothing wrong with that.
Paid exactly as asked to in the confusing rhetoric.
And then paid again!
Upheld his end of a simple? buy.
Seller received his money.
Buyer will receive his goods.
A simple retraction requested.
"I will ignore this message, have a nice day." ????
Possibly a lost customer(s)
Business must be good.
Won't always be.
My response to the Most Royal Holiness Highness Right Honorable His Excellency and most righteous Barron Von Onion and his assistant Vivian:
" We do not respond to threats from so-called royalty regarding free speech restriction vis. a vis. the first amendment. You see, dearest barron, we live in a constitutional republic and do not respond to orders from those who inherit bestowed titles, We therefore recomend that his royal highness fly the perverbial kite"
Hey Barron:
Three questions:
1. Can you spell "CYBERTERRORISM" ?
2. Can you spell "DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY" ?
3. Can you understand that the seller's description reads. " No international buyers or shipments"
Take that to your legal department and ask them about breach of contract.!!!!!!!!!!!
The most honorable Barron Von Full Band.
Assistant to the Prince of 16D
Subordinate to the jurisdiction of Micro-s.
I know, instead of mailing them a nice Franklin Mint proof set, mail them an old yellow pages
I can only assume that they built a new Western Union center near you and paid you off in fake money as part of the elaborate hoax
and if they can't get $10,000 worth of stuff this year scamming, they can at least bulid their feedback and go for 100K next year
<< <i>vis. a vis. the first amendment >>
There are "some" restrictions to the First Ammendment.
AND
There are other cultures in this world different to ours. To do business in the world market demands you understand this.
I am all for a global economy, but he has no reason to threaten Scarsdale with legal action because Scarsdale started this thread. Nothing has been said that was derogatory and the so-called barron is the one who legally breached the contract by not following the seller's instructions on purpose.
I've seen many of your posts and have a lot of respect for you, but, your stance and words on this thread are, IMHO, ridiculous. I don't know if you have been taken in scams or from someone in Hong Kong or something, and that is why you are saying what you are, but I think it is sad with what you are stating.
For instance, you keep on that this is a scam and that Jon is being set up for another scam. What is this baron guy pays everybody he just bought from? Are they all being set up?
Now that Jon knows the western union bit, and how to get the cash from it, don't you think that if the baron did try to buy from him again that Jon would go the same amount to be protected? I think Jon is smart enough to do that.
Also, as has been stated a few times, Jon had set it in his auction from ebay to state no non-US bidders BUT in his "fine print"...since changed....he also stated that shipping to non-US addresses would cost double the stated shipping charge.
Now, have you dealt with many non-US people? His English seems written very well, but maybe that is very time consuming. He probably read that no non-US bidders were wanted, wanted to ask anyway in case it was a shipping cost thing, or whatever, and while waiting for a reply, read in the fine print that shipping to non-US would be double.
YOU don't find that confusing? The fact that the auction stated no non-US were wanted but at the same time, it mentions (in what the seller would have had to put in the description..not what ebay has a checkbox for) that non-US bidders could pay double the shipping????
I have dealt with our Asian counterparts, in business, for the last 7 years. I am always amazed at how some of them seem to grasp our language (much better than I grasp theirs) and yet small things seem to pop up that cause consternation. At first, I thought they were doing it on purpose (and, some of them probably do), but I have found that most of them honestly miss the connection or thoughts on some things or just don't understand.
Brian...warnings about scams are fine, and joking is fine, but, I think you have taken things in a mean way on this....other than Jon (and Pam), no one on this thread has had any contact with this baron. We don't know how "refined" he is. We don't know if he is honest or a scammer. We know nothing but that which Jon has posted (and, Jon has seemed to want to post both sides, so that is cool).
I just don't think "we" should further carry on like this is a scam or say things like you have said in your latest posts (where YOU have actually misread or taken things out of context.......ie...the part about him bidding anyway AFTER being told by Jon not to bid).
<< <i>The Barron Von Onion has a hard time with listening skills.
He probably has a hard time with English
If you recall, when you initially emailed him letting him know that you did not take international bids. He said " Ok, I 've initiated the bidding process", Its like talking to a wall.
Like was previously stated, English is not only probably not his native tongue and hard for him, but Jon's ebay posting was contradictory
You are civil in your discourse, but he tries to flatter you and do the exact opposite.
And, you have never tried to do that to get something you wanted? Especially if you couldn't find it anywhere else? Ever try to flatter your GF/wife to "get something"?
This is the mark of a true scam artist.
True, scam artists do this. They are not the only ones though. I think Jon has handled the financial part well and won't be scammed
What he has done is earn your trust on the first run, subsequent to this, he will try to scam you. These are tactics employed by the Nigerian gangs and the Russian mafia. They are expert at gaining confidence on the first run, then they flatter, and subsequently take the money on further auctions and run.
True again, but if Jon handles anything the same way for payment, then I don't think he will be scammed
Hey Barron:
Three questions:
1. Can you spell "CYBERTERRORISM" ?
2. Can you spell "DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY" ?
3. Can you understand that the seller's description reads. " No international buyers or shipments"
English is MY first language, but I don't get why you put #1 and #2 here.....for #3, I will repeat.....READ THE SELLER'S ORIGINAL DESCRIPTION AGAIN YOURSELF! It had contradictory/confusing messaging about international buyers.
Take that to your legal department and ask them about breach of contract.!!!!!!!!!!!
The most honorable Barron Von Full Band.
Assistant to the Prince of 16D
Subordinate to the jurisdiction of Micro-s.
-------------------------
Brian Ostro
ANA R-179758
~Advanced collector of the finest PCGS Mercury dimes in MS66-68~
. >>
edited to fix a typo, add that the bolded parts in the quote by Brian are actually my comments in that quote, and to apologize for how long the post is....
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I can think of a dozen reasons not to have high capacity magazines, but it's the reasons I haven't thought about that I need them.
So some are preaching tollerance of language barriers and international bidders, but everyone seems to be missing the point that a good board member is being threatened by this moron of a barron with legal action. This is when my threshold for tollerance ends.