Crossing from NGC to PCGS: are chances better without a specified minimum?

dan1ecu · December 7, 2003 4:08AM

Greetings, All -

I have a nice PR66 Liberty Nickel graded by NGC that I think would make PR66 by PCGS's standards. Do you think I'd have a better chance of getting a PCGS PR66 if I submit the coin with instructions to cross at any grade rather than if I specify PR66 as a minimum? My thinking is this: With a "cross at any grade," they'll probably remove the coin, grade it, and slab it (providing that they don't consider it to be a problem coin). On the other hand, if I submit the coin with a minimum crossover grade of PR66, they might not cross it unless it appears to be a very high end PR66. Does that make sense?

Dan

jdimmick · December 7, 2003 4:11AM

Dan,

I think youd be better of sending it in Raw. I know this is probably not true?, but sometimes I think PCGS see's other brand holders especially NGC and rejects it on the spot.

Russ · December 7, 2003 4:13AM

<< Do you think I'd have a better chance of getting a PCGS PR66 if I submit the coin with instructions to cross at any grade rather than if I specify PR66 as a minimum? >>

No. If given the opportunity, PCGS will be more than happy to stick an MS66 coin in an MS65 holder. The only way it would grade MS66 is if it's really an MS67. Even if they remove it from the holder, the computer still tells them what the grade was before removal.

If you really believe the coin is a 66 by PCGS standards, crack it out submit it raw and remove the possibility for bias.

Russ, NCNE

dan1ecu · December 7, 2003 4:19AM

Well... it sounds as if we might not always get the fair grading that we're paying good money for. I'll probably just leave it in the NGC holder. The crossover game sounds like it can be maddening!

Russ · December 7, 2003 4:22AM

<< Well... it sounds as if we might not always get the fair grading that we're paying good money for. >>

Are you new?

Russ, NCNE

coinkat · December 7, 2003 4:32AM

leave it in the NGC Holder... be happy with the coin and not the plastic.

Placid · December 7, 2003 6:01AM

If the coin is a 66 by pcgs standards they will cross it as 66. If you don't want to risk it coming back a lower grade then use cross at same grade only.
I have only used cross at same grade or hhighe on one order of 3 ngc graded coins and all 3 crossed.

I usually use cross at any grade for coins of lower value and have had about 60% of ngc graded coins cross at the same grade and the other 40% 1 point lower.

Pcgs does not crack out cross at any grade coins before grading because if the is found to have a ng problem pcgs can't get it back in the ngc holder.

For me I would only crack a ngc coin before submitting if I was hoping for a higher grade than ngc graded it.

Boom · December 7, 2003 8:03AM

Fellas-if I may.Every coin (so far) that I submitted for crossover (NGC 66) has come back PCGS 66...except for one-and that one came as no surprise! Now there are instances that I would say cracking the coin out would be in order..Example 1932-S SEGS 62 ...cracked it out...a highly superior coin, much better than a 62 . I'd be foolish to submit a coin that could grade 63 or 64 in a SEGS 62 slab! The same holds true for NTC coins. Immediately they are looked upon with bias, therefore cracking them out and submitting them raw would also be in order. Personally, I always buy the coin-not the slab! Much of my Registry Set is a result of successful crossover and I find no bias on PCGS' part toward NGC or PCI. From first hand experience let me convey the following...on your invoice-depending on the coin- you must clearly state to re-holder/re-grade only if the coin crosses to the same grade!

bigbadchad777 · December 7, 2003 8:03AM

Don't crack it out!
I learned the hard way.

jdimmick · December 7, 2003 8:22AM

Ill tell you why I think there is some bias.

I have sent three crossovers into PCGS and they were all DNC, yet when I recieved them back, I broke them out and all three came back the exact same grade that they were in in the NGC holder. Now, why would a coin all of a sudden be holderable at PCGS, but wasnt the first time around submitted under crossover?

And this is not a bash towards PCGS, just statin facts? as they are my service of choice, my collection continues to be 100% PCGS. However, I think that PCGS only allows a certain percentage of other brand slabs to cross??

jim

sumner1984 · December 7, 2003 8:42AM

If and when I crossover, I always specify cross at ANY grade, since my main purpose is to get the coin in a PCGS holder. I sent in recently a NGC PR64 1941 merc dime and it crossed into a PCGS holder at PCGS PR64. Then I sent in what I thought was a nice NGC MS65 1923 Peace Dollar and it crossed into PCGS MS64. The Peace $1 also had a small lamination peel on the surface wich was NOT present in the NGC holder.Still, the coin looks better in a PCGS holder. So I just NEVER buy NGC any more,Who needs crossover head aches and worry.But I would recommend cross at any grade, since the coins trade for more in a PCGS holder any way, and have more respect.But if we were talking about a very expensive coin were a point might mean hundreds of dollars, I would think twice before buying it in a NGC holder, unless you happen to be a NGC fan.Maybe buy the holder not the coin isnt such a bad idea..(just kidding, to some degree)

eagle7 · December 7, 2003 8:51AM

If you are talking from the perspective of a collector, and if you want only PCGS coins then it makes sense to mark cross at any grade. However I think it makes much more sense to buy only PCGS coins to start with unless you are an expert grader in the series you collect. Not all people on this forum are experts. For those who are not I strongly suggest buying the holder you want from the beginning. It will save you money in the long run.

Boom · December 7, 2003 9:45AM

I suppose I've been fortunate in that some really key dates ,such as NGC 61 1932-D, NGC 66 36-S, NGC 66 37-D 32-P, NGC 65, 37-S NGC 64, 42-D NGC 66, 43-S NGC 66, 44-D NGC 66 etc etc -many more, have all crossed with absolutely no problems to the correspondind PCGS grade. I bought these coins at considerably less than what I would have paid had they been in PCGS slabs thereby increasing the value of my set! Right now PCGS has 11 coins to cross and I have no doubt they will. Don't let me leave out a PCI 65 35-D or another 37-S NGC 65 that crossed-AGAIN making each coin and the whole set worth more than what I have in it! If the coin is a true 66 it will come back 66,contrary to rumors of PCGS being concerned with population,however I wrote on my invoice to actually re-holder/crossover only if they met the grade. I would not want to LOSE money by going from a 66 in NGC to a PCGS 65. As I stated earlier, I always handpick my coins-EVEN RAW ONES- and are quit pleased with the results when a coin I picked up at a real good price icreases in value many times over! I keep referring to a SEGS 62 1932-S. I SCRUTINIZED THIS COIN and found no evidence of being altered or being a problem coin! It would be very foolish to submit a SEGS 62 for cross in a SEGS slab. Imagine my sheer glee when the coin I bought for $300 came back PCGS 64! In some cases, human behavior being what it is- there are times,such as this when cracking the coin out and submitting it raw was the right thing to do! A lot of people, for whatever reasons ,do not care for NTC,yet there are many treasures to be found and put into PCGS slabs.You do not have to crack them out-you cansimply say ,grade and put in PCGS slabs regardless of the grade. Sometimes cracking them out will help attain higher grades as then there is no bias!

airplanenut · December 7, 2003 12:43PM

<< So I just NEVER buy NGC any more,Who needs crossover head aches and worry >>

I hope you don't call yourself a coin collector... just a plastic collector...

Catch22 · December 7, 2003 1:44PM

We've all heard the stories of the same coin submitted repeatedly getting grades ranging from 64 to 66. Given that this clearly shows that you really don't know what you are going to get, i'd keep it in the NGC slab and be happy with it...that is unless you are willing to submit several times.

If I were going to give it a go, there is no way I would crack it out and I would certainly specify a minimum cross grade. PCGS wants nice coins in their holders. If it should be worthy of a cross, the pros far outway the cons of crossing it to their slab.

sumner1984 · December 7, 2003 1:49PM

<< 

<< So I just NEVER buy NGC any more,Who needs crossover head aches and worry >>

I hope you don't call yourself a coin collector... just a plastic collector... >>

I am a coin collector, I collect coins that are housed in PCGS holders only. I am a much more happier person also, my life is simplified.besides, the PCGS holder looks better, the coins in my experiance are of higher quality and problem free. I still inspect all PCGS coins for eye appeal as well before I buy. But it only takes just alittle more effort to hunt down that coin in a PCGS holder, rather than the NGC slab the coin dealers seem to always be pushing. This is just my experiance, but I really like PCGS alot.

roadrunner · December 7, 2003 2:36PM

Regardless of what you think, PCGS grades PF coins tougher than NGC. The chances of that coin coming back PF65 from PCGS is a possibility. I would cross the coin at the same grade. It only costs $25 and you have little downside. The PCGS is probably worth $50-$75 more than the NGC one.

Friends don't let friends crack out.

roadrunner

Newmismatist · December 7, 2003 3:44PM

<< If you are talking from the perspective of a collector, and if you want only PCGS coins then it makes sense to mark cross at any grade. However I think it makes much more sense to buy only PCGS coins to start with unless you are an expert grader in the series you collect. Not all people on this forum are experts. For those who are not I strongly suggest buying the holder you want from the beginning. It will save you money in the long run. >>

While I understand and appreciate your point, particularly if you're doing a registry set, but wouldn't it be better to buy the COIN you want?

Crossing from NGC to PCGS: are chances better without a specified minimum?

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