How in the heck do people count reeds on the edge of a coin without losing their mind?

lordmarcovan · November 25, 2003 5:13PM

Even if one found a way to safely mark the place where you'd begun, you'd still go blind or have a headache by the time you got back around to it, no?

hoardmonster · November 25, 2003 5:21PM

who on earth counts reeds??

smprfi · November 25, 2003 5:23PM

You have to have it before you lose it.

clackamas · November 25, 2003 5:35PM

The question should be why do people count reeds on the edge of a coin? Have they lost their mind?

Placid · November 25, 2003 5:39PM

To make sure they are all there?

lordmarcovan · November 25, 2003 5:42PM

There are some varieties that differ in reed count. I can't think of any off the top of my head, but there are some. I always wondered about that.

I think the 1916 SLQ is one of the coins had a different reed count (correct me if I'm wrong). If it's true, I think that's one of the diagnostics people use to determine if a dateless Type 1 SLQ is a 1916 or a 1917. Of course, by the time a SLQ gets worn to the point of datelessness, there ain't much left of the reeding, either.

There are better examples of why people count reeds, but I can't think of them. I think it would drive me nuts.

Placid · November 25, 2003 5:46PM

Maybe thats why it takes pcgs so long to grade some coins

Baley · November 25, 2003 5:51PM

I don't count no reeds, and my fat fingers don't like no little coins, either. Gimme quarters, half dollars, and dollars, and I'll look at em all day, and just let me push my little gold dollars and half dimes and trimes into an album hole and not deal with it no more. Oh, if i got one of those dates with a valuable reed count, maybe I'd give it a try, just put a little pen mark with a fine point sharpie every ten reeds and it would just take a minute.

lordmarcovan · November 25, 2003 6:05PM

<< <i>How in the heck do people count reeds on the edge of a coin without losing their mind? >>

So I guess the conclusion we have come to so far is: they don't.

People who count reeds have apparently already lost their minds.

Bet if there was a $500 difference between two varieties, and you needed a reed count, you'd get out the Sharpie pen and go to work, though.

What I wonder is who discovers this kind of stuff...

Veridicus · November 25, 2003 6:10PM

<< <i>There are some varieties that differ in reed count. I can't think of any off the top of my head, but there are some. I always wondered about that.

I think the 1916 SLQ is one of the coins had a different reed count (correct me if I'm wrong). If it's true, I think that's one of the diagnostics people use to determine if a dateless Type 1 SLQ is a 1916 or a 1917. Of course, by the time a SLQ gets worn to the point of datelessness, there ain't much left of the reeding, either.

There are better examples of why people count reeds, but I can't think of them. I think it would drive me nuts. >>

They use reed counts to authenticate CC and O coins of particular years. It seems that although the dies were made at Philly, collars were made locally and different mints have different reed counts.

1jester · November 25, 2003 6:42PM

Many counterfeit coins also have incorrect reed numbers. I've tried to count reeds sometimes, but it's really maddening. An easier way is to have the coin in question, and a real one, side by side and simply line up the reeds and check for deviations. Or, place the two coins together like gears, and roll them together. Differences in reed spacing will quickly become apparant.

silverandvinyl · November 25, 2003 7:09PM

Here's a way of doing it. As long as the reeds are not smooth. Tie black thread around the coin(divide it in half)then count each half with a mag.glass.

kranky · November 25, 2003 11:02PM

Take a (very) tiny piece of Play-Doh and plug the space between two reeds. Take another piece of Play-Doh and roll it out flat. Set the edge of the coin lightly in the flattened piece and roll it through the Play-Doh making a full revolution. Count the indentations, using the plugged space as your start/finish mark.

hoardmonster · November 25, 2003 11:12PM

<< <i>Take a (very) tiny piece of Play-Doh and plug the space between two reeds. Take another piece of Play-Doh and roll it out flat. Set the edge of the coin lightly in the flattened piece and roll it through the Play-Doh making a full revolution. Count the indentations, using the plugged space as your start/finish mark. >>

Brilliant!!

Barry · November 25, 2003 11:16PM

If all you're trying to do is determine regular vs. wide reeding, either hold it next to another coin known to be wide or regular for comparison, or use landmarks such as the space between a couple of letters in AMERICA and count the reeds between those letters.

LUCKOFTHEIRISH · November 25, 2003 11:17PM

What if the reeds have a cud on them? How could you count them if they are not there?

1957joe · November 25, 2003 11:24PM

I think they lost their minds BEFORE they started counting!

keoj · November 25, 2003 11:44PM

keoj · November 25, 2003 11:48PM

Yes, I admit it. I have counted reeds in the past (and yes, it was to prove a die/collar variety). This is how I do it (could this be an even more arcane topic!!!): I used my kids silly putty and rolled the coin for one rotation. Usually, I can find a diagnostic to start/end from and just count them out.

keoj

oreville · November 25, 2003 11:51PM

Never a problem! I give the coins (a la Cosby) to the kids and they spent hours counting up to four!

newbiecollector · November 25, 2003 11:53PM

LordM.......... a foolish question.
I thought everyone would just send the coin to your local reed counter shop...

nwcs · November 25, 2003 11:55PM

I've wondered this, too, when reading about authentication. I don't think I could do it very easily without some aid.

Gilbert · November 26, 2003 12:12AM

Well, several acceptable suggestions have been made HOW to count them. I must admit, I didn't think of the putty/clay idea, which seems to be the easiest so far, as long as you have a clear mark as to where you began.

As for the why, also mentioned, for die/variety attribution. The VAM Book lists the supposed reed count for each attributed die pair, not just P and CC coins. I suspect the reed count is/can be used to include/exclude other series' as possibly authentic or not.

There are only a few Morgan varieties for which the rarity is distinguished by the reed count, so, I don't ordinarily bother trying to count them.

Someone just needs to create a collar-like device with the supposed number of reeds for each denomination, so you could just insert a coin and check the reed count.

RGL · November 26, 2003 12:35AM

Blessed be the cents and nickels ...

razorface1027 · November 26, 2003 12:41AM

SLOOOOOOOOOWLY!Never a problem! I give the coins (a la Cosby) to the kids and they spent hours counting up to four!

Oreville; Are you trying to start a new way for HOME TONING coins? Kids= potato chip grease, choc. chip cookies and all that other kid munchie STUFF on their fingers.........

Rittenhouse · November 26, 2003 1:08AM

OK, I'll admit it, I've done reed counts. Mostly on Seated as part of a collar study. Veridicus hit it - dies made in Philly with collars made locally.

I've used the clay method but found it was easier to mark a reed with putty or clay, roll on an ink pad & then on paper. Then mark off the reeds as you count. Ink comes off with xylene. Like taking a finger print.

Wolf359 · November 26, 2003 3:55AM

Lord M: I read in the Morgan VAM book a method using graphite on the edges, rolling the coin on white paper then counting the paper marks. Supposed to be very accurate and easier.

Also on some Morgans the reed count differs on proofs versus business strikes for certain years. When in doubt...

Trooper · November 26, 2003 5:31AM

Just grind the reeds off. This way you won't have to count them..

or

Drill a hole through the coin and mount it on top in the center of the dining room table. Then draw a line from the center of the coin over each reed to the edge of the table. This way, with the spacing, the reeds will be easier to count.

oreville · November 26, 2003 5:36AM

<< <i>Drill a hole through the coin and mount it on top in the center of the dining room table. Then draw a line from the center of the coin over each reed to the edge of the table. This way, with the spacing, the reeds will be easier to count. >>

Trooper....ROFL. That is the answer that comes closest to LordM's heart. After all, he is a holey hole coin collector

dorkkarl · November 26, 2003 5:45AM

try counting reeds on a bust half some time...

reedcount is significant to early half-dime and dime varieties. check out your logan & greer books some time.

K S

Trooper · November 26, 2003 6:02AM

Oreville

Just wondering how many other people caught the reply.
I know from other posts he's a "Holy" collector.

Isn't there some kind of measuring device out there that would help. I know in stamp collecting there's a ruler that measure the indents from the preferations, because some stamps might look the same but are actaully more valuable because the perf counts are different.
Tom

SDCollector · November 26, 2003 6:07AM

I remember when I hit the section on reed counts in the VAM book. I couldn't believe that Van Allen and Mallis actually counted the reeds on Morgans. Unbelievable!

lordmarcovan · November 26, 2003 6:50AM

I'm a decent guy, but I'm not Holy. I'm holey with an "e" in there.

Great suggestion, Trooper, and it made me ROFL, but I don't drill my own holes- I only accept 100 year old (or older) holes on the Holey Coin Vest.

Ljr1964 · November 26, 2003 11:20PM

I have NEVER counted Reeds. If I had to though? Take a digital picture, or scan the coin in question. Blow it up as large as possible for output on an 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper. Print. Count. Sure will produce less eye strain and the Sharpie Marks you tick off won't effect the original. That's my two cents worth. Hope it's helpful.

Conder101 · November 27, 2003 12:34AM

One way it can be done is with a device called an edge mirror. The coin is placed in the mirror and then when you look straight down at it you can see the edge refected in the mirror all the way around the coin. Little tick marks can be placed on the mirror to help you keep from losing your place while counting, or you can photograph it and blow it up to make the counting easier. Professional edge mirrors are rather expensive but a cheap version can be made up using the reflector from an inexpensive flashlight.

razorface1027 · November 27, 2003 12:36AM

I'm a decent guy, but I'm not Holy. I'm holey with an "e" in there.

Rob, believe me, you're HOLY! All Scotsmen are HOLY!...

MacCoin · November 27, 2003 12:41AM

HE HEEE now you know why I'm known as the mindless wonder!

How in the heck do people count reeds on the edge of a coin without losing their mind?

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