Why do you hate cleaned coins so much?

cladking · November 20, 2003 12:28AM

As a rule collectors won't buy cleaned coins except at a steep discount. Usually
this discount seems ludicrously large. Cleaned XF indian cents can sometimes sell
at about the price of a VG even though the coin would lose all traces of having been
cleaned if it were worn down to VF.

I don't like harshly cleaned coins because they are not original and look unnatural.
With better dates one might worry that something is being hidden by the cleaning.

What types of discounts do you think are appropriate?

nwcs · November 20, 2003 12:37AM

Well, obviously the discount is proportionate to the damage caused by the cleaning. I suppose it also depends on how eye appealing the coin is. The more appeal, the less the discount.

KollectorKing · November 20, 2003 12:46AM

Because collectors & the public have been brainwashed by the numismatic community that cleaned coins are inferior, doctored, altered, and should be avoided at all cost.

However there is a minority that thinks otherwise, and have been subjected to ridicule for "rocking the boat."

JohnZ · November 20, 2003 12:52AM

Cleaning can mean a lot of different things. I've certainly used acetone to clean coins on occasion - does a good job on fingerprints and haze without damaging the coin. I've even dipped some ugly silver coins. I would never touch a nicely-toned coin, however, and I abhor whizzing. I won't pay a dime for a whizzed coin.

JoyofCollecting · November 20, 2003 12:56AM

I agree...whizzing for me is absolutely off limits.

paigowjohnny · November 20, 2003 1:22AM

Cleaned coins are okay if:
1. They're advertised as such and not priced at full retail for the "details" grade. ANACS generally net grades down one category, and that's a good point to start the pricing
and/or
2. You're smart enough to identified a cleaned coin and know how to bargain down the seller.

What I hate are folks that sell overdipped or cleaned coins as BU to unsuspecting and inexperienced newbs (including me countless times) at "discount" prices that are still way too high for what you get.

sinin1 · November 20, 2003 1:35AM

cleaned coins are okay, until you sell them ( or try to )

Cam40 · November 20, 2003 1:39AM

Is it bad to rub the dirt off a coin with a shirt tail ?
100% soft cotton shirt ofcourse.
I,m speaking of nickels mainly that you,d get in rolls from the bank.
Personally I feel its ok since no chemicals are involved.
It seems to help some coins. Others do sometimes look whizzed from this type of treatment depending on
how worn the coin is and how much rubbing is done.
Isnt that a better way to clean circs as opposed to useing a chemical dip?
Dipping nickels is about as bad, I think, as dipping copper.
99 out of 100 times you get an adverse reaction to the coin alloy with dipping, excluding acetone.

ARCO · November 20, 2003 3:07AM

For me the reason I collect coins is for that old time antique look. That is why I pay money for a little piece of metal. the date on the coin is not interesting, nor is the mintmark any more so. It is the overall look that makes the coin look like a piece of art.

As for discounting them, that is irrelevant to me because once cleaned it is an uncollectable piece that would only detract from my overall set. Sacrifice a beautiful original for a date and mintmark? Oh the horror

Note: by cleaning I mean chemically where the surface is altered as in copper, and for gold and silver, physical cleanings that have scratched, and damaged the coin, giving it a washed out, unnatural look.

Tyler

oreville · November 20, 2003 3:12AM

I love cleaned coins especially when they come at a discount to face value or in the case of silver coins, at a discount to the 3x silver bullion premium!

I just found a lovely cleaned 1964-D dime in circulation at face value. Correction, my wife found it but I checked her change.

But for real collector coins, the only cleaned coins any collector should like are the mistake coins we had to fool with in our youth. They bring back awesome memories.

keets · November 20, 2003 3:21AM

cleaned coins are a bummer when collectors can easily identify them as such. what's ironic about cleaning coins is that what starts as an effort to improve something, many times ends in damage, which is probably where the blanket statement "never clean a coin" came from. better to err on the side of caution.

the most annoying cleaned coins to me are the ones which are absent luster as a result---MS63 details with VF30 luster.

al h.

mgoodm3 · November 20, 2003 3:52AM

I think Keets has the right idea.

aRabidChipmunk · November 20, 2003 4:33AM

JohnZ: I'd pay a dime for any whizzed coin with a face value of at least $0.10

A coin is worth at least face value if it is legal tender. You can always spend it!

mercurynut · November 20, 2003 5:42AM

Cleaning=surface damage

dorkkarl · November 20, 2003 5:51AM

depends on the cleaning method / harshness. i'd rather have a coin cleaned w/ a light wipe than a light dip most times, especially circ's.

the paranoia over cleaned coins is definitely excessive. some people just need to get over it. sheeeeeez. like gee, in the past 200 years, some coins have been cleaned. good golly, get over it already. worse things happen!

K S

Russ · November 20, 2003 5:56AM

Here's an example of why I dislike, (hate is really too strong a word), cleaned coins:

That Morgan is flat-out beautiful. Besides the nice color, it has a ton of luster and fantastic surfaces. But, it is hairlined from an early cleaning. It makes me sad.

Russ, NCNE

keets · November 20, 2003 6:12AM

hey Russ

do you think any of the color on your Morgan resulted from the cleaning??

al h.

shirohniichan · November 20, 2003 6:32AM

But for real collector coins, the only cleaned coins any collector should like are the mistake coins we had to fool with in our youth. They bring back awesome memories.

I must not be a real collector. I collect rare date cleaned coins if I either can't find or afford uncleaned examples. I looked for 3 years for a coin, and the only one I could find was polished. I guess I could have turned my nose up at it, but since it was the only one I could find didn't look bad and was priced right I bought it.

There are times when I specifically look for cleaned coins, especially when they're significantly less than uncleaned coins and are to be used in frame displays. If someone breaks into my house and steals them, it won't be much of a loss.

paigowjohnny · November 20, 2003 6:40AM

Shiro...you're right...as long as you know you're getting a cleaned coin and you're paying an appropriate price.

I've been burned too many times in my newbieness...buying say an XF Morgan...all the details there...and paying full XF price....only to find out later that I have a cleaned coin worth fractions of the price. And once I know it's cleaned, having been screwed, I can't stand to look at the coin...

NJCollector · November 20, 2003 6:53AM

While opinions on cleaning vary, there is one thing some people have backwards. They feel that cleaning is a way of hiding something bad on the coin. It's just the opposite. Cleaning will expose whatever there is to see. It's an uncleaned coin that may be hiding something.

You can also debate if dipping is cleaning, but it is for this reason that many (myself included) say that a raw circulated coin should never be dipped.

Just my 2 cents

coinkat · November 20, 2003 9:54AM

I think I have posted enough on this issue to the point where I will remain silent

Pushkin · November 20, 2003 10:09AM

To get really brillant rainbow colors you've got to clean them first.

There's nothing an oxidization reaction hates worse than an already oxidized surface - unless you're iron.

hamiltonjh · November 20, 2003 11:40AM

I have an 1879S Morgan, grades about AU53, that has been cleaned. It is a nice coin, but looks dull. The high points are nice and shiny, and some of the field is shiny, but around the profile of Liberty, in the recesses of her profile, around and "inside" the letters and numbers where the cloth or whatever wouldnt reach, it's a very flat and dull. Light grey...hard to describe, but just looks terrible. That is the obverse and reverse. Same on both sides. The coin just has a "rubbed" look.

I like the coin, but the eye appeal is just not there. I guess if a coin was cleaned and it didnt have these problems, I wouldnt care much. but, I'd want a cleaned coin that you couldnt tell has been cleaned. Does that make sense? Cleaning can also scratch or make a coin appear hazy depending on method.

I'm still pretty new to collecting, but I stay away from obviously cleaned coins because of the eye appeal disparity.

Why do you hate cleaned coins so much?

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