Dilemma
HavanaJoe
Posts: 155
Hi all. I'm brand new to this site, and relatively new to collecting. I only collect Silver Eagles, I currently have 58 in different presentations (i.e. PCGS slabs, mint boxes, Airtites, mint rolls, etc.).
Here is my dilemma, I’m hoping for some good advice. Recently I bought an eagle (2003 PCGS PR69 DCAM) online. The price was a bit high ($37), but I wanted the coin and it was payday, so I bought it. Everything went smoothly, the coin arrived quickly and was beautiful. It was a nice, clean transaction. About 5 days after I received the coin I received another package from the seller, and inside was ANOTHER 2003 PR69 eagle. My first thought was that I had been charged for two, but after checking PayPal and my bank account I realized that it was a shipping error.
I contacted the dealer and they confirmed that it was a shipping error. They then told me I had two options- one, I could send it back, or two, I could send them a check for $37. I did not think either option was fair to me, considering the fact that I never asked for this item to be sent. My first thought when I got the coin was to return it, but now I am having second thoughts. If I return it I will have to pay the postage, and that’s not fair since I never ordered the coin. I can’t send it C.O.D. because the only address I have is a PO box. I don’t want to buy it since I just bought one and I think the price is a little steep.
A friend of mine told me that if a company sends you something “unsolicited” in the mail it is yours to keep free of charge and you are under no obligation to return it or pay for it. Even if it was sent to you in error you can keep it, as long as you did not execute any “trickery” to get the seller to ship it or make any offer (written or verbal) to pay for it. Since this was a shipping error and I never intended to order this item I feel it was “unsolicited” to send it to me. Part of me feels that is not fair to the dealer who sent it, since it was simple human error. But I did not feel as if there was any exceptional customer service when I notified them of the error- in fact, the woman I spoke to was a little rude with me. The other part of me feels that since I never ordered it I should not have to pay to return it or pay full price for it.
So, what should I do? Pay to return it, return it and request reimbursement for shipping, keep it for free as an “unsolicited mailing”, send a check for $37, or send an offer to “split the price” since neither me nor the dealer wanted to enter into this transaction in the first place? Thanks for any and all advice!
Silver American Eagles ROCK
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Comments
If not, send it back and ask for postage.
The price isn't that bad, either.
My take on your delimma - the seller should eat the postage for sending it back. I personally wouldn't keep the coin and I wouldn't buy it either, but since it was the seller's mistake, they should pay for the mistake (i.e. the shipping both ways).
Total Copper Nutcase - African, British Ships, Channel Islands!!!
'Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup'
<< <i>A friend of mine told me that if a company sends you something “unsolicited” in the mail it is yours to keep free of charge and you are under no obligation to return it or pay for it. >>
Doing so in this case would make you a thief. It was a simple error on the seller's part. Send it back.
Russ, NCNE
If they were rude on the phone then I wouldn't play the nice guy and pay for shipping and hope for a reimbursement.
Tell them to send you a self adressed prepaid return envelope. Leave the ball in thier court and see what happens. If no envelope comes then they just dropped the ball.
Tom
I am pretty certain that the law about keeping unsolicited merchandise does NOT apply to errors. That law is designed to protect people from being sent items along with an invoice, then being on the hook to either pay for it or return it. And even if it does apply, it's still not the right thing to do.
Are you sure you can't return it COD to a PO Box? If you can't, why not tell the seller that returning the coin costs $X in postage and they can Paypal that amount to you? If they don't want to do that, just tell them you're keeping it. At that point I think you've done all you can do. In any case it shouldn't come out of your pocket.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
If you consider keeping it as "unsolicited" (I've heard that rule before but know nothing about the legalities of it) then I would contact your local post office and ask them to see in writing what the rules/laws actually are for keeping things that arrived in unsolicited mail. You might also want a definition of "unsolicited mail" from the USPS. Get the post office to give you copies of the rules and definitions. That way, when whoever sent it to you finally comes after you to return it or pay for it and eventually threatens legal action, you'll be able to quote official USPS laws governing unsolicited mail and your rights as a consumer.
No, I'm not telling you to keep it, but you should cover your butt and get the facts from those who know. As long as you know what your legal options are, you're good to go.
<< <i>Your friend is right about postal regulations, if you get something unsolicited, it's yours to keep. >>
I find it highly unlikely that the regulation applies in this case, but even if it does that is not an ethical justification for keeping the coin.
Russ, NCNE
Keeping it is not right, regardless of how the seller treated you. They should have been nicer, but then one shouldn't keep something wrongly because of that.
As it was thier error, you should not have to eat the shipping to send it back. Give them another call, and tell them that you want to send the coin back, but need them to send you either a prepaid mailer, or a UPS call tag. And that once you do, you'll be very happy to help them correct their shipping error.
Myriads
reputation is everything in business, it was a simple mistake of $37.
Some good thoughts so far. I don't think the company was TERRIBLY rude to me, just didn't give me the warm and fuzzies when I called. I was expecting "sorry about that, it was a mistake and here is what we can do to correct it..." vs. "Well, you can send it back to us or you can send us a check". I was not looking for a parade or a medal for notifying them of their error, but certainly a little more service than was provided. It got me feeling as if they really didn't care one way or the other about the coin.
Silver American Eagles ROCK
<< <i>My take on your delimma - the seller should eat the postage for sending it back. I personally wouldn't keep the coin and I wouldn't buy it either, but since it was the seller's mistake, they should pay for the mistake (i.e. the shipping both ways). >>
I think ccrdragon summed it up perfectly.
Silver American Eagles ROCK
Silver American Eagles ROCK
<< <i>
<< <i>Your friend is right about postal regulations, if you get something unsolicited, it's yours to keep. >>
I find it highly unlikely that the regulation applies in this case, but even if it does that is not an ethical justification for keeping the coin.
Russ, NCNE >>
That's why I suggested he ask the seller for a postage pre-paid envelope to send it back. Any honest seller who made an honest mistake would be happy to do so instead of putting the expense on the customer. If the seller isn't willing to do that, then the customer has fulfilled any ethical considerations required and is free to keep the coin and that doesn't make him a "thief".
<< <i>A friend of mine told me that if a company sends you something “unsolicited” in the mail it is yours to keep free of charge and you are under no obligation to return it or pay for it. Even if it was sent to you in error you can keep it, as long as you did not execute any “trickery” to get the seller to ship it or make any offer (written or verbal) to pay for it. Since this was a shipping error and I never intended to order this item I feel it was “unsolicited” to send it to me. >>
your friend's advice is dead wrong. something sent to you in error is not yours to keep. check the package for the postage they paid, add a few pennies for your time and effort and have them to send you thant amount of $ so you can return it promptly. btw, there is no po box exclusion at the usps web site for cod's.
<< <i>
<< <i>A friend of mine told me that if a company sends you something “unsolicited” in the mail it is yours to keep free of charge and you are under no obligation to return it or pay for it. Even if it was sent to you in error you can keep it, as long as you did not execute any “trickery” to get the seller to ship it or make any offer (written or verbal) to pay for it. Since this was a shipping error and I never intended to order this item I feel it was “unsolicited” to send it to me. >>
your friend's advice is dead wrong. something sent to you in error is not yours to keep. check the package for the postage they paid, add a few pennies for your time and effort and have them to send you thant amount of $ so you can return it promptly. btw, there is no po box exclusion at the usps web site for cod's. >>
I didn't see the exclusion either, but then again if it's a PO box then no one would physically be there to make payment. That's why I decided to ask for the postage paid mailer to be sent to me vs sending it out COD and having it come back
Silver American Eagles ROCK
<< <i>but then again if it's a PO box then no one would physically be there to make payment. >>
They put a notice in the box and the recipient must pay in order to receive the package.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>but then again if it's a PO box then no one would physically be there to make payment. >>
They put a notice in the box and the recipient must pay in order to receive the package.
Russ, NCNE >>
Good thought! Why didn't I think of that?? lol... I'll remeber that for the next time. Thanks Russ!
Silver American Eagles ROCK
Maybe, but the guy is such an asshole.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Email him/her and tell them to mail you a money order for the postage. Don't keep it, because if you do, you wouldn't be able to sleep with a sound conscience...
Point well taken!
Silver American Eagles ROCK
A company sends you a gift in the mail--a ball point pen, a key chain, a tie. But you didn't order it. What do you do? If you are the type of person this company is looking for, you may feel guilty about accepting the item without paying for it. Don't feel guilty! It's yours, and you are under no obligation to pay anything.
You, the consumer, may only legally be sent two types of merchandise through the mail without your consent or agreement:
Free samples which are clearly and conspicuously marked as such.
Merchandise mailed by a charitable organization that is soliciting contributions.
And in these two cases, you can consider the merchandise a gift if you wish. In all other situations, it is illegal to send merchandise to someone, unless that person has previously ordered or requested it.
These rules are codified in Title 39, United States Code, Section 3009. That section of the Postal Reorganization Act of 1970 incorporates these protections for American consumers and makes the mailing of unordered merchandise unfair methods of competition and unfair trade practices under the law.
If you do not wish to pay for unsolicited merchandise or make a donation to a charity sending such an item, you may do one of three things (in each case, by law, you have no obligation to the sender):
If you have not opened the package, you may mark it "Return to Sender," and the Postal Service will return it with no additional postage charged to you.
If you open the package and don't like what you find, you may throw it away.
If you open the package and like what you find, you may keep it for free. In this instance, "finders-keepers" applies unconditionally.
Furthermore, it is illegal for a company that sends you unordered merchandise to follow the mailing with a bill or dunning communication.
If you are aware of violations of the federal law prohibiting the mailing of unordered merchandise, or if you have personally had difficulty with such items--especially if you are sent statements demanding payment for the merchandise--you should contact you local postmaster or the nearest Postal Inspector.
Verd;
The P.O. regs and a sound conscience, which USUALLY wins? Here's a good one for ya HavanaJoe! Guy buys a razor auction for $158.75 total. He sends me a money order and I deposit it. The following week the guy sends me another money order for the same item same amount. Razor's goin' to town in his skull on this one...keep it and hope he doesn't realize he screwed up or do the right thing so I could sleep easier a night, return it. Welp, I chose to sleep better at night. No big tadoo from the fellow at the other end. Furthermore, my EGO didn't say the guy owes me because I am this great fellow for returning it. I simply said to myself...This is a IMPROVEMENT compared to the individual I used to be...
The word "gift", in my mind, at least, implies intent and knowledge on the part of the sender. If it doesn't, fairness and decency dictate that it should.
If one reads the regulation literally (see below), it sounds as if it is ILLEGAL, for instance, to ACCIDENTALLY send two of an item, for which only one order is received. Very poor wording, as, in this case, the seller likely did not mean to send a free sample or solicit anything. Yet, according to the wording below, "in all other cases, it is illegal....."
<< <i>You, the consumer, may only legally be sent two types of merchandise through the mail without your consent or agreement:
Free samples which are clearly and conspicuously marked as such.
Merchandise mailed by a charitable organization that is soliciting contributions.
And in these two cases, you can consider the merchandise a gift if you wish. In all other situations, it is illegal to send merchandise to someone, unless that person has previously ordered or requested it.: >>
What a sales strategy...send people stuff they haven't ordered and expect them to pay for it??? I don't think so. The onus is on them.
<< <i>The regulation cited appears to be addressing items that are intentionally sent, in order to elicit something (such as $ or business from the recipient) and not those which are sent in error, with no ulterior motive. >>
Maybe, but the P.O. isn't going to make a distinction. People who use unsolicited mail as a marketing tool are of course going to claim it was a mistake so there's no way to tell what the real intent is. Therefore, the P.O. isn't going to make a distinction. If you get something unsolicited, it's yours, period. Now, for what it's worth, this company probably did make an honest mistake in sending the extra Eagle coin, but who really knows? The proof of that in my opinion is the willingness of the seller to promptly send a postage prepaid envelope for him to return the coin. If they aren't willing to do that, then he keeps the coin in my opinion.
<< <i>Postal regulations from their web site
Verd;
The P.O. regs and a sound conscience, which USUALLY wins? Here's a good one for ya HavanaJoe! Guy buys a razor auction for $158.75 total. He sends me a money order and I deposit it. The following week the guy sends me another money order for the same item same amount. Razor's goin' to town in his skull on this one...keep it and hope he doesn't realize he screwed up or do the right thing so I could sleep easier a night, return it. Welp, I chose to sleep better at night. No big tadoo from the fellow at the other end. Furthermore, my EGO didn't say the guy owes me because I am this great fellow for returning it. I simply said to myself...This is a IMPROVEMENT compared to the individual I used to be...
If the seller really made an honest mistake, then they should be more than happy to send him a postage prepaid envelope to return the coin. If they aren't willing to do that, then my conscience would be clear in keeping the coin. It's not my responsibility to spend my time, gas money, and postage to return something that I didn't order. My willingness to spend my own time and gas money, if they're willing to pay return postage, is about as fair as you can get. If they can't even be bothered to pay return postage for THEIR mistake, then too bad for them. About the extra $158 money order, yes I would return it, that's not even the same issue.
I am not a lawyer but I spent last night at a Holiday Inn Express.
Silver American Eagles ROCK
It's the same! My scenario was money. I received I returned! Joe's is the same. He received; therefore, he should return. I can't see rendering much more rhetoric about the simplicity of it....
<< <i>If the seller really made an honest mistake, then they should be more than happy to send him a postage prepaid envelope to return the coin. If they aren't willing to do that, then my conscience would be clear in keeping the coin. It's not my responsibility to spend my time, gas money, and postage to return something that I didn't order. My willingness to spend my own time and gas money, if they're willing to pay return postage, is about as fair as you can get. If they can't even be bothered to pay return postage for THEIR mistake, then too bad for them. About the extra $158 money order, yes I would return it, that's not even the same issue.
It's the same! My scenario was money. I received I returned! Joe's is the same. He received; therefore, he should return. I can't see rendering much more rhetoric about the simplicity of it....
It's not the same. If a COMPANY sends you MERCHANDISE, then their motive for doing so may be an honest mistake or they may be trying to stick you with something, hence the postal regulation which doesn't even try to determine motive. If they send it unsolicited, it's yours. The other example is a CUSTOMER sending another PAYMENT. Their motive is easy to determine, unless they're into self flagellation, they have obviously sent the extra PAYMENT by mistake and it should be returned. Two completely different things.
There were 44 replies to this thread before I posted. The fact is it was a mistake. Plain and simple. Asking for return postage is fine, but it was a mistake, a simple lonely mistake.
Forty-four people put their two cents worth into why or why not to return the coin. Forty-four. Over a mistake. Wow.
Return the coin, even if you don't get your postage back. Just knowing that I did the right thing, even if he didn't, is enough for me.
Nuff said
njcoincrank
DITTO: njcoincrank! do it "At the spped of lightning and the roar of thunder!" That's how UNDERDOG would do it!...
<< <i>After reading your post, two main things seem obvious to me. One, keeping the coin doesn't sit well with you. Two, the seller isn't appreciative of your honesty and lacks customer relations/service. My thoughts are to tell them you are more than happy to send it back after you receive the postage money. >>
You are right- it WOULD bother me to just keep the coin. However, since I have no emailed and requested a postage paid envelope I will sleep soundly- AND, if I never get the envelope I will enjoy my new coin!
Silver American Eagles ROCK
I guess that's fair, I would have preferred a prepaid mailer.
Any final thoughts?
Silver American Eagles ROCK