What are the boys at CDN smoking these days?

Russ · November 17, 2003 2:46AM

ICG: 88.19%
PCGS: 82.51%
NGC: 79.89%
PCI: 58.11%
SEGS: 56.78%
ANACS: 55.40%
NCI: 34.63%
INS: 32.44%

ICG trading higher than NGC and PCGS? Pass that doobie!

Russ, NCNE

coinguy1 · November 17, 2003 2:51AM

Russ, there is at least one major dealer who has posted some very strong sight-unseen bids for certain ICG coins on CCE, an electronic trading network. That is probably largely responsible for the high ICG % you saw listed.

flaminio · November 17, 2003 2:53AM

<< <i>ICG trading higher than NGC and PCGS? Pass that doobie! >>

I don't even see why they still include NCI and INS -- when was the last time you saw one of those for sale? Must be some drug-induced hallucination, I'd guess.

greghansen · November 17, 2003 2:56AM

Its been that way for quite a while now. I posted a thread about it several weeks ago requesting information on the coin series used by CDN in arriving at their Certified Coin Market Indicator. Here's the prior thread:

Prior thread on ICG vs. PCGS ranking in CDN Weekly Newsletter

It's not an isolated instance. ICG has been consistently ranked above PCGS on this scale for a while now. I have found it quite interesting for awhile and perhaps your thread will generate more interesting comments as to why. I have noticed that in the last couple of monthly Bluesheets, ICG sight unseen bids (especially for Morgans) have taken some BIG percentage leaps upward.

ScarsdaleCoin · November 17, 2003 3:01AM

I heard that from a dealer recently that he snagged a icg coin in auction and knew he would get quite a bit for it....seems that some folks buy holders....he bought the coin

Russ · November 17, 2003 3:14AM

Greg,

I'm telling you, it has to be drugs.

I hadn't grabbed a copy since July, so today when I hit their site to download a new one I saw that on the front page and about choked. In the real world, ICG coins are lucky to bring half what their PCGS counterparts bring, and about two-thirds of NGC prices.

Russ, NCNE

paigowjohnny · November 17, 2003 3:31AM

ICG, PCI, and SEGS trading higher than ANACS....

MacCoin · November 17, 2003 3:31AM

finely the way it should be

wallstreetman · November 17, 2003 3:54AM

Now I,ve heard everything

kranky · November 17, 2003 4:28AM

The CDN has to be one of the most mysterious aspects of this hobby.

You can ask the most obscure coin question you can think of on this board and someone here will know the answer, but no one seems to know how the CDN comes up with those numbers, or why they still(!) quote prices for NCI and INS coins.

For some reason, the NCI/INS thing fascinates me. It's like the Kelly Blue Book quoting used car prices for Studebakers. There must be a reason they continue to print them, but what in the world could it be?

zenny · November 17, 2003 4:33AM

sample is 10 U.S. coins series, 2 grades each.

not particularly representative - although probably represents all of the nci/ins transactions...

tjkillian · November 17, 2003 4:39AM

I would bet a dollar that it has something to do with ACG/NTC and if they did any changes, somehow/somewhere they would have to include ACG and they don't want to do it. That is my theory, anyway.

Tom

keets · November 17, 2003 4:44AM

perhaps the CDN representative sampling is bigger than each of our samplings. perhaps they traded higher for whatever they sampled. perhaps they're wrong. whatever. why get so strung up on a particular service?? if one company sells lower and you can find nice stuff in their holders, buy. if not, don't buy.

i've found winners and losers in every holder. what would be an interesting thread is one where we could get the major crackout guys to give evidence of which company holderes they crack most looking for an upgrade. anyone want to speculate on an answer to that??

al h.

coinlieutenant · November 17, 2003 5:22AM

I saw an NCI coin the other day. Accurately graded too...

islemangu · November 17, 2003 5:31AM

Im probably off here but who submits coins to these other grading companies besides plotting dealers. Are their pops comparable to the big three P/N/A in quantities?

anyone want to speculate on an answer to that??

Id guess PCI just because of the timing of slabbed coins becoming more popular and their timing of direct submittal approach to the collectors instead of through dealers..??

Veep · November 17, 2003 6:20AM

I don't get it #1: Agree with Russ. What are they smokin'?

I don't get it #2: I'm always hearing how "the sheets" don't keep up with market value. Over the last several months, the percentages for all companies, except maybe ICG, have been declining. Doesn't that mean that the opposite is happening?

I don't get it #3: If these percentages are to reflect the ratio of sheet price that coins from the different services bring, then doesn't this mean that raw coins must be worth more? If slabs are bringing 70-80%, or so, of sheet price, there must be other higher sales at higher levels to produce higher overall sheet prices.

Ok, what am I missing?

wingedliberty · November 17, 2003 10:00AM

The real test is consistency. They have not remained there , nor will they. This is a temporary thing.
I'd like to see these sight unseen bidders put their money where their mouth is, but I don't want it on key date Bust halves in VF. Even I trust ICG on that, how about a PF69DCAM early Kennedy is the 60's or better yet, how about an early date matte proof Lincoln in 67 or 68. When they do that for 6 months straight, I'll take it seriously, in the meantime, since I quit smoking in 2000, I do occassionally miss my Newport Box in full flavor.

dragon · November 17, 2003 11:16AM

I have always considered the CDN publications a running joke in the coin industry. They're market commentary is a joke IMO, they are always way behind the real market in price increases and decreases, don't publish prices for many popularly traded common issues, and publish prices for stuff that virtually no one cares about. Yet many dealers and collectors still subscribe.

I think anyone with a little initiative and/or desire, a few connections with major wholesalers and dealers, and a good knowledge of the coin market could publish a weekly price sheet that would make CDN dry up and blow away.

dragon · November 17, 2003 11:24AM

Do they seriously still quote prices on NCI??? That is too funny, didn't NCI stop grading coins like 15 yrs. ago and their certs now considered novelties? I haven't even seen an NCI cert. in the last 5-7 years.

wallstreetman · November 17, 2003 11:25AM

keets, nobodys saying you cant find accurately graded coins in ICG holders, its the difficulty!

keets · November 17, 2003 12:23PM

hey wallstreetman

.......and i'm saying you can find inaccurately graded coins in PCGS/NGC/ANACS holders, and it's not difficult! so your point would be........??

al h.

kranky · November 17, 2003 12:32PM

<< <i>I think anyone with a little initiative and/or desire, a few connections with major wholesalers and dealers, and a good knowledge of the coin market could publish a weekly price sheet that would make CDN dry up and blow away. >>

dragon, I thoroughly agree. It would hardly be a monumental undertaking.

fountainheadgold · November 17, 2003 12:46PM

<< <i>Russ, there is at least one major dealer who has posted some very strong sight-unseen bids for certain ICG coins on CCE, an electronic trading network. That is probably largely responsible for the high ICG % you saw listed. >>

Quite possibly manipulation to raise their %

BigAl · November 17, 2003 1:32PM

So far, I've had much better luck cracking out ICG coins (morgans only) than I've had with ANACS crackouts. My next submission (waiting for a few more coins to arrive) will contain a 65PL ANACS & a 63PL ICG crackout. Hoping for a 64PL on the ICG, and worried that the 65PL ANACS will downgrad to 64PL. If this happens, it'll be a wash...

What are the boys at CDN smoking these days?

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