AU 58 to MS 63?

fcloud · November 7, 2003 12:13PM

On average, how many submissions does it take for an AU 58 to make MS 63?

darktone · November 7, 2003 12:36PM

I hope you don't think if you submit an AU58 a few times it will eventually grade 63? Most AU's will never be in an MS holder. I collect $5 and $10 liberty's and I have yet to see an AU58 that would upgrade to 63 in a PCGS or NGC holder. mike

Baley · November 7, 2003 12:42PM

depends on the coin. for a modern coin, never, at least not at a reputable service.

if it has wear, it will always au58 at a top tier. if you mean how many different services you have to try, well, I'll say 5 or 6 down the list and you'll get your "grade'

if you're talking about a 150-210 year old coin, I'll say an average of 3 times.

this one's an MS 63 now, was a pcgs au58 (old holder) last month:

fcloud · November 7, 2003 12:53PM

The question was actually tonge and cheek, but I see Baley had one grade upwards. I think the au58/ms coins are the toughest coins to grade. The slightest mark/rub could keep it at 58! I have seen a few 58 coins that I can't find a mark/rub, so I thought I would ask the question.

thanks,
Tony

Coinosaurus · November 7, 2003 1:07PM

This is a fuzzy area. Lots of possibilities. Questions to ask:

* How much luster is on the coin? A 58 w/no luster won't make it even if it has no wear and no marks.

* Is it PQ? A 58 with totally choice surfaces and color can get up to 61/62 even w/subdued luster.

* How much rub? A little rub can still make 63 if the coin is super outstanding in every other way. More likely 62 for such a coin though.

* How good is the strike? Add one point for excellent strike, subtract one for crappy strike. Not a hard and fast rule, but just a guide. I have seated quarter, for example, in 62 which has 63 or 64 luster but is weakly struck.

I like what QDB said in CW this week - regardless of what the holder says, it can't change the coin. Judge the coin yourself for the attributes above and buy what you like!

stman · November 7, 2003 1:14PM

<< <i>this one's an MS 63 now, was a pcgs au58 (old holder) last month: >>

Baley, naw... say it isn't so. I thought you put it in your album? Or maybe you just calling it 63? Or maybe you're a sly dog?

I like the coin either way.

Bikingnut · November 7, 2003 1:19PM

I think the au58/ms coins are the toughest coins to grade.

I agree. Of the five Washington's I have in PCGS AU 58 holders, my 45D and 46S look MS to me. In fact, the 45D looks better than some of the MS 65's I have. I can't see any rub or wear at all. maybe the grader was temporarily distracted

fcloud · November 7, 2003 1:26PM

I have a fully struck 1931-S Buffalo that was graded 58. I think they didn't like the color on the coin. I can't see a mark or flaw on the coin. The obverse has a nice look, but the reverse doesn't have good color.

stman · November 8, 2003 3:19AM

Well Baley????????

Shamika · November 8, 2003 4:51AM

"how many submissions does it take for an AU 58 to make MS 63?"

I would hope that an AU58 WOULD NEVER "make" MS63.

jdimmick · November 8, 2003 5:04AM

Bout the only way youd ever get a 58 to go to 63, is if PCGS made a bad judgement when the coin was holdered first go around. Possibly by looking at luster breaks and misreading as slight wear or possibly a darker toned coin that was mistakenly holder as slightly circulated becuase it was difficult to tell if that was actual wear under the toning?

Mikey · November 8, 2003 5:10AM

I think David Hall's criticism of coin grading is resubmitting coins over and over. I think it's a waste of money to keep sending the same coin in over and over.

link

fcloud · November 8, 2003 5:20AM

<--- That dime right there was a NCG MS61. Sent into PCGS for crossover at a Minimun grade of MS60. According to them it did not meet the requirements of an MS60; therefore, the coin in there opinion was AU. After studing the coin for about three weeks, I decided to crack it out and send it in. The 1923-S dime then graded by PCGS MS63! So they do misgrade truely MS coins as AU. I revert back to the original question.

On average, how many submissions does it take for an AU 58 to make MS 63?

In this case it was twice.

Check this link to David's reply on AU58 to 62

Tony

Edited to add link

Dollars · November 8, 2003 8:00AM

As a newbie this is what scares me the most. Sending a coin to various grading services until the grade can be received that the holder is looking for. As someone said this is a very hard thing to learn AU/MS. Guess I will keep buying cheap coins until I can get so that I trust myself.

Buy the coin not the slab
Buy the coin not the slab

I must repeat this daily

Dave
In Laurel
MD

XpipedreamR · November 8, 2003 8:44AM

58 and 63 are flip sides of the same coin!

Pun intended.

AU 58 to MS 63?

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