1905-O Dimes in VF...Hmmm.....!

MrEureka · October 25, 2003 9:53AM

Simple coin. Not a great rarity. Bid is $32. In my opinion, that's about right. Now, here's the tricky part. If you had a year to do it, how much would it cost you to buy a roll of them? My best guess is $4000, $80 per. Any thoughts?

Baley · October 25, 2003 10:00AM

when you specify a grade, it makes it kind of tricky.

Same could be said of trying to buy a roll of 1924-S quarters in exactly F-15,

or a roll of any late date V nickel in precisely EF40,

or any number of coins.

I think your premise is correct, it's a lot more complicated and expensive than the simple

Price x number of coins in a roll.

MrEureka · October 25, 2003 10:41AM

when you specify a grade, it makes it kind of tricky.

Not really. I can deliver a BAG of 81-S Morgans in MS 65 in less than a year and I can do it for less than a 15% premium to "bid".

Baley · October 25, 2003 10:45AM

sure, you can do it with MS Walkers and Morgans and probably Saints too.

but a specific date coin in a specific mid grade circulated condition is a lot scarcer and harder to locate than a generic BU coin, because fewer are for sale at any given time.

but we're making the same point, aren't we

DaveG · October 25, 2003 11:10AM

Andy,

If you're making the point that coins that are priced as "common" really aren't exactly common and that taking 50 of them off the market in a relatively short time (such as a year) would cause the price to triple, I would have to say that, for coins that are collected as a series (which Barber dimes are, but Seated dimes aren't), I agree with you.

Just try finding mid-grade circulated mint-marked Mercuries and Walkers from the '20s, for example!

Coinosaurus · October 25, 2003 11:13AM

Well, it just goes to show you that price doesn't always equate with rarity. I recently purchased an AU58 1861 quarter for $200. Sort of a common date, but this is one of THE most original, unmessed with seated coins I have ever seen. You could walk the bourse floor all day at a big show (& I certainly have) and not find anything similar. A roll of them in this state of preservation? Don't think so, doesn't exist. BUT - they are not expensive if you can find them, unless you are trying to buy mine, which isn't for sale anyway

tradedollarnut · October 25, 2003 11:39AM

Just because I couldn't put a roll of 1994 quarters in VG together in a year doesn't mean the darn things, as a date, aren't common!

MrEureka · October 25, 2003 11:45AM

Just because I couldn't put a roll of 1994 quarters in VG together in a year doesn't mean the darn things, as a date, aren't common!

No. It just means that you're stinkin' rich, wear expensive clothes, and won't ruin your pants carrying a roll of 94 quarters in your pocket for a year.

Edited to say "Where ya gonna find a roll of unc 05-O dimes?"

Coinosaurus · October 25, 2003 12:00PM

TDN-

I think the point that Eureka was trying to make is that there are a lot of "collector" type coins out there which, despite their price, are not easy to find. While I wouldn't get excited about an 1994 VG Washington either, surely you would admire something like an original matched set of circulated Barber dimes (such as Eureka suggests), even w/o the 94-S. If not, we may have to make you start collecting Lincolns from circulation and plugging holes in Whitman albums

ARCO · October 25, 2003 12:06PM

1905-O Dimes can be found with some frequency. In VF the seem to average about $40.00, but to finish it within a year (if enough specimens could be found) then yes probably $50-$80 per to make sure you didn't miss any.

I would be willing to bet that a nice roll of original, uncleaned and problem free 1894 Barber halves in VG10 or Fine (20 coins) could not be found in under a decade. These are $50-$70 dollars in VG10-F12 retail with an original mintage of 1,148,972. I have seen one VG10 and a VG9 worth buying in four years. If anyone is up to the challenge I would pay you double the retail price...if you could get yourself to sell them.

Tyler

tradedollarnut · October 25, 2003 12:13PM

My point was that even a common coin can become uncommon if a certain grade is dictated.

Geoman · October 25, 2003 12:18PM

Reminds me of a recent visit to my local dealer in town. He knew I had picked up a 1938-D Walking Liberty Half for my circulated set. He asked if I was interested in trading that in, and upgrading it. He has a customer that is putting together a roll set of circulated Walkers in the VG-F range. Don't know why someone would do this, but to each their own. I did end up trading up from a F to a VF for very little cost.

Russ · October 25, 2003 12:26PM

<< <i>I think the point that Eureka was trying to make is that there are a lot of "collector" type coins out there which, despite their price, are not easy to find. >>

Yeah, like 1866 Two Cent pieces in MS62RB to MS64RB. Help me!

Russ, NCNE

MrEureka · October 25, 2003 12:27PM

My point was that even a common coin can become uncommon if a certain grade is dictated.

Try to find 100 05-O dimes in ANY grade in the next year. BTW, the choice of coins was almost random. My point is only that many very cheap coins cannot be bought in any meaningful quantity without dramatically increasing prices.

Coinosaurus · October 25, 2003 12:43PM

<< <i>My point was that even a common coin can become uncommon if a certain grade is dictated.

>>

Well, to take your example of VG 1994 quarters, I will give you as many as you want at 30c each

I have a feeling I could "come up" with them if I really needed to

tradedollarnut · October 25, 2003 1:03PM

My point is only that many very cheap coins cannot be bought in any meaningful quantity without dramatically increasing prices.

Oh, so price is a function of supply AND demand?

MrEureka · October 25, 2003 1:30PM

Oh, so price is a function of supply AND demand?

The interesting thing (to me) is that supply and demand are both highly inelastic. If I waved a magic wand and all dated circ Barbers doubled (or halved) instantaneously, very few buyers would quit buying and very few sellers would quit selling. To a dealer, that makes for an "interesting" market.

tradedollarnut · October 25, 2003 1:36PM

The interesting thing (to me) is that supply and demand are both highly inelastic

Oh, I don't know about that. I got offered a nice pop 1 ms trade dollar at double market value and my demand was pretty elastic!

SethChandler · October 25, 2003 1:44PM

Apples to oranges...Can't compare.

MrEureka · October 26, 2003 12:19AM

Apples to oranges...Can't compare.

Correct. I was talking about cheap better date circ Barbers.

Supply and demand for expensive coins tend to be more elastic than that for cheap coins.

Supply and demand for coins that appeal to investors tend to be more elastic than that for collector coins.

Supply and demand for expensive coins that appeal to investors tend to have the greatest elasticity.

Finally, like TDN, most buyers will hesitate to pay double the perceived "market price". My point was that substantial changes in MARKET PRICES have little effect on the supply and demand for SOME coins.

sinin1 · October 26, 2003 1:36AM

I could find 100 1905-O dimes in any grade in the next year - there is at least 10 on eBay right now - so what about the micro O stuff?

Why would anyone want to?

MrEureka · October 26, 2003 2:01AM

Why would anyone want to?

Why do we buy any coins at all?

roadrunner · October 26, 2003 3:01AM

The comment on seated coins not being collected by series was interesting. For example how about VF 1853-0 or 1858-0 dimes?
I doubt if there are 20 of those in existence. As to how many you could find in a year at the lowly CDN prices of $28 or $55?
Probably zero. At double that price you might be able to scrape up 5 in a year. And as far as saying an XF 1853-0 dime for a CDN of $60? You might be able to buy 1-3 in a year at around double that price. The VF 1907-0 dime would be a cakewalk in comparison. Maybe 10 of those for every 1 VF 53-0/58-0 dime.

roadrunner

roadrunner · October 26, 2003 3:04AM

Oops, typed in 1907-0 rather than 1905-0. But both about the same. For giggles, I'd stack up the "shunned" 1858-0 dime in rarity up against the "grand behemoth" 1895-0 dime in all grades of VF and higher.

roadrunner

MrEureka · October 26, 2003 5:01AM

Brian - Do you think that Seated coins would sell better if we added a zero to every price in every grade? Maybe buyers would take them more seriously, dealers would market them more agressively, etc. Could it be that (for some coins) higher prices actually CREATE demand?

Baley · October 26, 2003 5:27AM

the problem with seated coins is that they are very very long series, and very very few collectors attempt or even contemplate assembling sets by date.

the vast majority collect seated coins by type, and while there will always be a premium paid for the scarcer dates, prices will be held down (especially in "collector" grades such as VF and EF) by the effect of only needing (1) no motto coin, (1) with arrows coin, and (1) with motto coin, of any date.

MrEureka · October 26, 2003 5:47AM

the problem with seated coins is that they are very very long series

Nowhere near as long as Lincoln cents.

Baley · October 26, 2003 5:58AM

yes, but the rest of the compound sentence was, "and very very few collectors attempt or even contemplate assembling sets by date.

which is not true of Lincolns.

is this what they call, "going off on a tangent"? or are we still discussing 1905-O dimes in VF?

roadrunner · October 26, 2003 7:50AM

Barber coins from 1892 to 1916 are a pretty long series too. Roughly 50 different coins (excuse my math). But I'll have to agree that 115 or so seated dimes by just date/mint is a more than a mouthful. If only the US Mint hadn't kept minting these after 1874, we'd have something here!

Hey but isn't the classic commem set 144 pieces! And large cents and bust halves by variety is no small feat either.

roarunner

roadrunner · October 26, 2003 8:09AM

I think Andy's point was really aimed at any relatively inexpensive
(compared to UNC's) circulated US coin that because of limited demand, has a currently limited price. So we could choose from a number of series (Lib seated included) that demonstrate the point.

How about 24-d, 25-d, and 26-d Buff nickels for $55 VF bid? Something tells me there aren't a whole lot of these out there either.
Make the same point.

roadrunner

XpipedreamR · October 26, 2003 8:11AM

Just think how tough it would be to put two rolls together!

Casey · October 26, 2003 1:40PM

What a coincidence. I just bought a nice VF 05-O two days ago for $42. There's another one off the market. Interesting thread.

MrEureka · October 27, 2003 3:16AM

Andy's point was really aimed at any relatively inexpensive (compared to UNC's) circulated US coin that because of limited demand, has a currently limited price.

I never said that the low prices were caused by limited demand. There's HUGE demand for these coins. In fact, I'd argue that the low prices are more the result of limited supply. It doesn't pay for dealers to bid the coins up because the higher prices won't attract many sellers.

Compare that to proof gold. If prices doubled, they would ALL be for sale. (OK, almost all.)

1jester · October 27, 2003 4:18AM

OK Andy, how does all this relate to your having recently pissed off all Canada by buying 100% of the supply of those 2 new one-off commemoratives???

MrEureka · October 27, 2003 5:03AM

OK Andy, how does all this relate to your having recently pissed off all Canada???

Hmm...you got me thinking! It would be WAY cheaper to corner the market for better date circ Canadian coins.

1905-O Dimes in VF...Hmmm.....!

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