Collectors: Are you retail buyers?

MrEureka · October 21, 2003 3:03AM

In this business, the line between wholesale and retail is very fuzzy. This question is more about attitudes and semantics.

So tell us, collectors...

1. Do you consider yourself a "retail buyer"?

2. Are willing to pay more than the perceived "wholesale market value"?

3. Would you be offended if a dealer quoted you one price and he quoted a lower price to another dealer?

Please be honest, even if you don't think it's the politically correct response. Thank you.

mdwoods · October 21, 2003 3:03AM

Yes, yes, no.

Bubblehead · October 21, 2003 3:05AM

Yes, Yes, and Yes (if I knew about it)

mgoodm3 · October 21, 2003 3:06AM

yes, yes, no

MrEureka · October 21, 2003 3:07AM

Yes, Yes, and Yes (if I knew about it)

Bubblehead - You think dealers should quote each other retail prices?

jeffnpcb · October 21, 2003 3:11AM

I buy from a few local dealers if they have in stock at the time a coin I'm interested in getting. Large cents and half cents are hard to come by that aren't slabbed and over priced. I won't buy them unless they are graded from an auction sight, but in hand raw I don't have a problem.
Am I willing to pay more, it is possible because the price guides don't trully reflect the whole range of coins and unless they are key dates, the price never moves.{Coin World Trends have been flat-lined like PCGS' for several years. Greysheets are the same way except they do follow the market a little closer, but not much, and don't go higher than a 65!? So what is the true value above that price, whatever you feel comfortable with paying!}
As far as dealers in my area, with 1 MAJOR exception, they treat me fairly and what they do with other dealers is their business if I didn't make a strong effort to buy! He who hesitates is lost!

jbsteven · October 21, 2003 3:11AM

no yes no

sometimes I have to pay retail to get nice pieces which is part of the business.

keets · October 21, 2003 3:12AM

1. when there's no other choice. like everyone else, i go for the best price. wholesale often comes with a negative connotation which i think turns some off.

2. if it's something i really want and if i think i have a better idea of value than the "market" does.

3. i'm sure this happens quite often and is likely dictated by how much business a dealer or collector gives another dealer. higher volume translates to better prices.

al h.

SethChandler · October 21, 2003 3:15AM

Yes, I'd consider myself a retail buyer, but I do not feel that term is a negative in any way, as some people may associate those words with "sucker", as I once did. I do everything I can to get the best price on everything I buy. If a dealer gets a better price on a coin than me, I don't feel upset....just wish my negotiating tactics were better. Besides, I believe the emotional levels are different between dealer/dealer and collector/dealer. And we all know that emotions play a big part in EVERY negotiating process.

Seth "top-tick" Chandler

XpipedreamR · October 21, 2003 3:16AM

yes
yes
yes, but only because I'm cheap and greedy

dougwtx · October 21, 2003 3:23AM

Yes.
Yes.
No.

Bubblehead · October 21, 2003 3:23AM

Andy,
No, of course not!
But-if the item in question was being discussed in that manner, in my presence, after I had shown some interest, I would feel slighted.
'Ya know... "Throw ME a bone, now and then!.."
I dunno, that's just me, I guess.

mgoodm3 · October 21, 2003 3:28AM

Oh, thought of something else. I don't mind paying a little more for something locally. I would prefer to keep small businesses alive. That is, as long as I know and respect those businesses.

Shamika · October 21, 2003 3:28AM

Yes

Yes

Yes

kranky · October 21, 2003 3:48AM

<< <i>1. Do you consider yourself a "retail buyer"? >>

What choice do I have? No one will sell to me cheaper.

<< <i>2. Are willing to pay more than the perceived "wholesale market value"? >>

Pay more than wholesale? Yes.
Pay a 50% premium because the coin is "PQ"? No. I don't know enough to know when to do that, so I don't. I'd rather miss a coin than get buried.

<< <i>3. Would you be offended if a dealer quoted you one price and he quoted a lower price to another dealer? >>

Nope. That's how things work. Dealers sell to other dealers wholesale, and the public is going to pay somewhere between wholesale and retail for the most part.

291fifth · October 21, 2003 3:59AM

There are no bargains in coins. If a collector wants nice coins they are going to have to pay retail. My definition of retail is the amount a collector has to actually pay to obtain a coin. It is not the amount found in any published price guide.

The dealer has a completely different mind-set. His only concern is profit margin. This past week I offered some truly prime Indian and Lincoln cents to a couple of dealers I know. These are choice coins I know will sell easily. Both dealers passed on all 20 coins offered as they knew I wasn't giving them away. eBay has changed the market. I used to have to sell at whatever the dealers offered. No more. I will now sell the coins myself on eBay. Increasingly, I am losing interest in even bothering with the local dealers at all.

cosmos66 · October 21, 2003 4:05AM

1. YES
2. YES
3. YES

I purchase most of my coins from ebay or fellow members of these boards. I have purchased a couple of coins from a local coin dealer but I try to not make a habit of it.

WorldTypeSet · October 21, 2003 4:28AM

1. no
2. yes
3. no

Newmismatist · October 21, 2003 5:08AM

Andy

I buy coins from you. Does that qualify?

(You know my answer to #3 - we discussed that at the ANA)

coachleonard · October 21, 2003 5:12AM

1. yes 2. yes 3. no

python · October 21, 2003 5:15AM

Yes,Yes,No

MrEureka · October 21, 2003 5:24AM

I buy coins from you. Does that qualify?

Like I said, the line between wholesale and retail is very fuzzy. But in your case, yes, you're big-time retail, with a capital "R".

BTW, I'm only asking because I'm trying to determine how much of a turn off the "r-word" (retail) is to most collectors. Would it be better to call a retail price something else - maybe "collector club price" or "public ask" or whatever - or are most people too smart and unemotional to let semantics matter?

MadMonk · October 21, 2003 6:27AM

Yes, and no...I have paid retail for some of my coins. usually after looking at many coins, lots of digging, and much dissappointment. Then a specialist dealer will pull one out of his hat, and boom, its a great coin. So, considering what I've been through trying to find a nice example, I've dished out the retail price. I've paid over retail once, and it is still the most appealing of the date and mint mark I've ever seen.

CalGold · October 21, 2003 6:57AM

The collector is the bottom of the food chain in the coin business and all collectors should expect to pay retail when they buy and to receive wholesale (or less) when they sell. I suppose that if you are a big enough spender, dealers may offer you high priced consigned coins and take a commission that makes your price as close to wholesale as you can get. Otherwise if a dealer offers a coin to a collector at a "wholesale" price, its usually because the coin is a dog (so why buy it) or the coin is a slow mover (common date in common condition in an unpopular series) and the dealer just wants to get his money out of it to invest in better inventory. Or the sheets are out of sync with the real market and you are paying the true retail price–after all the dealer paid wholesale and his price to you includes his mark-up.

Sure you see type in common condition go for wholesale at auction but auction prices for nice coins in popular series are just as likely to be at retail as wholesale, especially if there is internet bidding. A number of dealers have observed that coins often sell at auction for more than the retail price on bourse floor.

As far as a dealer offering a coin to another dealer for less than his reatil price--doesn't offend me at all. Happens all the time. Dealers do this reciprocally to maintain their sources of inventory. Its a business. Any collector who can't live with the reality of the coin business should find another hobby.

CG

relayer · October 21, 2003 7:12AM

Yes
Yes
Yes

Lakesammman · October 21, 2003 7:37AM

1. The stuff I'm looking for is getting to be in such short supply that I'd pay above perceived retail.

2. Yes - why should I get the volume discount when buying one coin?? What other business works that way??

3. No - see #2.

jjroll · October 21, 2003 7:39AM

yes, yes, no

haletj · October 21, 2003 7:50AM

No to #3, but the other two are hard to answer. I collect all coins from 1934-2003 and pennies back to 1856, so on tough early date Lincolns I just pay whatever is asked (within reason) if the coin is nice (and it is impossible to even say if that price was a retail or wholesale price). I'm not working as hard on IHC, so I only buy them if I get offered a nice one for a cheaper wholesalish price (and I've managed to get a quarter of the set this way so far!). As for the newer coins, if I see one sight seen that is exactly what I want, i.e. a well struck gem coin I won't ever need to upgrade, I have no problem paying retail (as I just did last week on a 44 Walker), but if I have extra money and start looking on ebay to fill in some dates I need, I only bid wholesalish due to 1) the risk of postage on returns 2) the ease in finding most of these coins (most, but something like a well struck S walker is not easy and I bid very high!) 3) wholesale bids can win a lot!

09sVDB · October 21, 2003 9:57AM

Yes, Yes, and probably not.

coinkat · October 21, 2003 10:03AM

I guess that because I am a collector that makes me a retail buyer by default. There are some coins that are worth reaching for and others that are over priced crap... the challenge is to find quality coins at fair prices and avoid the crap.

Dealers can sell coins to whomever they choose... and because dealers need to make a buck, I fully expect that they will be able to buy a coin at a better price and thats okay... I can live with that.

dollardude · October 21, 2003 10:44AM

No, yes, no. I try not to pay full retail (CDN greysheet ask?), and that is how I've come out ahead. I try to get as close to wholesale as possible to reduce the risk involved. I've found that I can win some eBay items for close to wholesale, I can pick up some items at shows for close to wholesale (motivated sellers or slow sales), and I can sometimes negotiate for close to wholesale. I don't, however, always pay completely wholesale (CDN greysheet bid?). I am sometimes willing to pay more than the greysheet bid or ask for a clearly undergraded coin or a key date that is hard to locate, regardless of price. This pricing thing was not really an issue a couple of years ago when I purchased the bulk of my collection. Since then, prices have skyrocketed, and you made a huge profit no matter what you originally paid. However, today, I am more cautious of pricing because the market is so hot. I am even more less likely to pay full retail now than I was a couple of years ago. You are more likely to lose money in today's hot market than a couple of years ago, so I expect to see some pricing falloff in the next year or two.

Newmismatist · October 21, 2003 3:19PM

<< <i>I buy coins from you. Does that qualify?

Like I said, the line between wholesale and retail is very fuzzy. But in your case, yes, you're big-time retail, with a capital "R".

BTW, I'm only asking because I'm trying to determine how much of a turn off the "r-word" (retail) is to most collectors. Would it be better to call a retail price something else - maybe "collector club price" or "public ask" or whatever - or are most people too smart and unemotional to let semantics matter? >>

How about just calling it the "Blue light special" - I think I can pick one of those portable flashing Blue lights up for you for your next show & you could sell coins and grade apples

fountainheadgold · October 21, 2003 3:23PM

no
yes
no

maybe

canadiancoinguy · October 21, 2003 3:35PM

Yes
Yes
No

roadrunner · October 21, 2003 3:35PM

Mr. Eureka, I had one dealer recently tell me that paying RETAIL wasn't enough! This was following a discussion of what he had for sale during the ANA show. This is real case of the R word.

When I intimated that I often pay retail for truly nice coins his reply was that he wanted "RETAIL RETAIL." So I guess that means "double retail." Another way of saying he didn't want to sell to me and had deeper pocket sellers who would pay more without being fussy. Forot to mention, that I did sell this dealer coins just the day before too. Interesting, huh? Sort of like "double secret probation."

So at times, paying RETAIL appears to be inadequate.

roadrunner

oldcameoproofsguy · October 21, 2003 3:45PM

1. Yes and No. It depends on the coin. I do purchase some of my coins through auction. I guess that would qualify as not retail.
2. Yes. The only coins worth buying have superb eye appeal worthy of a premium above retail.
3. No.

CarlWohlforth · October 21, 2003 11:38PM

I consider myself a part time dealer who sometimes has to pay up to get a coin with better than average eye appeal. I am not offended if I don't get offered a coin at the best possible price; I just pass. So that makes my answers:

No
Yes
No

DeepCoin · October 22, 2003 1:16AM

Coins are one of the very few places that americans will dicker over price. It is not part of our culture and it is an acquired skill to negotiate without making it personal. That said, like most collectors I like bargains, but sometimes when looking for a special coin I will pay more for it. Everything is negotiable and ebay makes selling my coins much easier, thus providing more funds for purchases.

tradedollarnut · October 22, 2003 1:25AM

I figure I must have "PIDGEON" emblazoned on my forehead since everyone keeps taking vicious shots at me. Does that make me a retail buyer?

Collectors: Are you retail buyers?

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