Cleaned And Re-toned.... a closer look.... Capped Bust Half CAUTION long and boring

stman · October 20, 2003 11:29AM

This is my feeble attempt to try and contribute something I hope is a bit educational. First let me say that while I prefer original unmolested surface coins, this is not to knock others choices, just maybe to inform or help someone if they are not sure what to look for.

I see many coins posted here with this type of look so I bought this one just to study it, because when I'm at shows I only take a quick glance at something like this and pass.

Looking at the colors, the tale tale sign of the goldish brown and the red just tells me it just doesn't look right. Closer inspection.... the red color just doesn't sit on the surface like original toning and is clear it's secondary toning. Now the blue that you can't see very well on obv in the center.... it kind of just floats on the surface not really grabbing anything. It doesn't go into the crevices of the hair or anything. Also notice the denticles... the tone is not grabbing inside and actually they look pretty clean. An original tone would have some nice looking dirt clinging in there.

Now to view the surface for hairlines, take a good loupe and keep turning the coin in different directions just like we should when grading a piece. I see very fine hairlines scattered every direction as I keep turning, and looking at it in different directions.

IMO, this piece was toned at some point, cleaned, and then the secondary toning. Hey, some pretty good print lines on this one as well. This coin is in a Anacs holder graded AU details, cleaned and re-toned xf45 net.

Now here is more of an original look.

The toning just looks right imo on this one. Although this has had a wipe in left obv field... IMO it happened before it had toned and that's why the toning looks original. This is in a NGC slab graded AU58. I bought it for AU55 money.

And then we have what I call the ultimate for originality on my newest addition. Yeah, I know I've posted it but it just fits into the thread.

Please feel free to add to this thread, and I hope I've maybe helped at least one person and not bored everybody.

This one is in a PCGS slab and graded correctly at AU58.

tjkillian · October 20, 2003 11:36AM

Thanks for sharing, the first bust half looks cleaned to me too. Although nice, the draped bust half just does not do it for me.

Tom

coinkat · October 20, 2003 11:57AM

great thread and what can be said about that 1806 Draped Bust? I wouldn't mind seeing the coin in person just to say I agree or even disagree with the AU58 grade. From the scan, it looks as if it was graded appropriately, but part of me is saying it is MS and has alittle cabinet friction. The strike is superb... for both the obverse and reverse which is somewhat unusual for the date. The color is good... and it looks original. WOW what a coin!!

Dog97 · October 20, 2003 12:01PM

I pretty much agree with all that, stman.

XpipedreamR · October 20, 2003 1:06PM

Neither boring nor feeble...thanks!

agentjim007 · October 20, 2003 1:54PM

just wondering stman did you buy that PCGS coin raw?

fountainheadgold · October 20, 2003 2:14PM

That was a great thread and yes i learned a little more, thanks

stman · October 20, 2003 2:46PM

To answer a couple questions on the Draped Bust half. It has just a touch of rub on the very high points. I like it in the AU58 holder as is. Even if I were able to get it in a MS holder it just wouldn't be the same to me. If I were to sell, it would be said it has a bit of rub and probably would get the same price as I would as is.

I bought it in the holder it's in. I also understand there are very few on the board that appreciate a piece like this. I'm OK with that. I just like to show the other side once in a while. These things just don't tone up like a mint set Franklin, or bag toned Morgan. If they do there is probably a reason for it.

agentjim007 · October 20, 2003 4:24PM

These things just don't tone up like a mint set Franklin, or bag toned Morgan. If they do there is probably a reason for it.

There is nothing mystical about an 1806 50c that make it tone up differently than any other silver coin that would have been subject to the same environment. That coin like any other coin is a product of it's environment. Might be that environment was artifficial induced or natural. Review the Benson coins to see what can happen to coins as old as this with entirely different toning.

stman · October 20, 2003 4:33PM

I see your point but perhaps you misunderstood mine. My point was many people don't like this type of toning because it's not all lit up with bright neon colors. Like the Mint set toned Franklin's and bag toned Morgans I used as an example. My point also was some don't appreciate this type of original toning.

Nothing more to it than that.

agentjim007 · October 20, 2003 4:59PM

Those pics of your 1806 above wouldn't happen to have been taken by coingame2000?

stman · October 20, 2003 5:22PM

<< <i>Those pics of your 1806 above wouldn't happen to have been taken by coingame2000? >>

Yes, I bought it off Mike DeFalko (coingame 2000) In case you're wondering I feel it's a very good representation of the coin. Actually it has some more colors and better iridescence in person. Did you used to own this coin?

agentjim007 · October 21, 2003 12:21AM

No, never owned it. His pictures all have a certain look. I did own one of his coins once and the coin was nice . The colors were not as vibrant in person. He can get the best side of a coin on film.

sinin1 · October 21, 2003 1:42AM

Very helpful thread - I only wish I would have seen it a couple years ago when I got some cleaned and retoned (just like your picture) seated dollars.

Cleaned And Re-toned.... a closer look.... Capped Bust Half CAUTION long and boring

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