Set Discussion of the Week - 1952 Topps Baseball

Virtualizard · October 19, 2003 11:27AM

Since nobody else has officially posted it, I'll do it.

Let the discussion begin.

JEB.

Virtualizard · October 19, 2003 11:29AM

Here is the link to the beginning of this discussion.

Griffins,

Please post a scan of the Gus Zernial card. I'd like to see it.

Thanks.

JEB.

LJB17 · October 19, 2003 11:29AM

I was just going to go through the posts with the hopes that this one was being discussed. I am interested in the Black vs. Red backs.

RobE · October 19, 2003 11:30AM

Is it possible to complete the set with one color back?

Virtualizard · October 19, 2003 11:32AM

Rob,

I believe that only the first series cards have the black/red variation. Maybe someone else can confirm this.

I don't collect this set, but I am always interested in any discussion of it.

JEB.

jackstraw · October 19, 2003 11:33AM

i think it's awesome how the collector scored the palfko psa 10. i remember reading the story i believe the smr. i guess there was an unopened pack at his local card shop for 900. he finally bought the pack and after months of debating with himself he opened and perfectly preserved between the top two and bottom two was the palfko. for some reason i remember that story probably not accurate but close.

The53Kid · October 19, 2003 12:11PM

JEB,

Here's a picture of the Zernial.

Sorry I can't offer much insight into the 52's. But just wait til we hit the 53's, you won't be able to shut me up. I do have a good article bookmarked about the print runs of 52, I will attach it from work tomorrow.

Thanks,
Bruce

Virtualizard · October 19, 2003 12:15PM

Bruce,

Thanks for the scan. Here it is for anyone else interested:

Where is The52Kid?

JEB.

jaxxr · October 19, 2003 12:15PM

Regarding "Ozark Ike " Gus Zernial on his 52 Topps card......

I believe he tied the AL mark for HRs in in three straight games, thus the six balls stuck to his bat. Why does Larry Jansen #5, show a seven fingered sign ?? Whats up with Jerry Priddy #28, swinging five bats, while seated ?? Several other cards from the great 52 Topps set show non-traditional poses.

A begining of an era for Topps or any card company or the hobby itself. Mass distibution and colored photos and a new larger size cardboard slab. Some, like me, feel the 52 Bowman set is a bit more attractive but will admit the Topps set is the real classic and trend-setter

The53Kid · October 19, 2003 12:38PM

JEB,

I don't have enough "coin" to support The52Kid. So you want to start a 52 set in 8? Think about these stats for a minute.

#1Pafko $15000
#311 Mantle $35000 (Hummm, Mantle or new 4Runner??)
#407 Mathews $18500

and we are just getting started:

How about those high number commons? About 90 of them at $700.00 a piece. And that's not even considering low pops and bidding wars, and Branca!

All together, 407 cards in PSA 8, SMR = $275,255

What I'd really like to know is what it would really cost you to put this set together, considering the low pops and competitive bidding. I guess that's why you don't see many new folks building this set in 8 coming up the ranks.

CW · October 19, 2003 12:59PM

Since I can't offer any personal knowledge of this set, I'll provide
links for everyone to click on (all from PSA's Library):

Excellent article on 1952 Topps set

Article about Bob Moynihan, who has assembled 2 complete sets

Old article about 1st graded PSA 10 Pee Wee Reese '52 Topps card

A collector reminisces about collecting 1952 Topps as a kid

I'm still trying to find a nice, affordable '52 Topps Bob Feller card
to add to my collection. I also like the Mays card -- in so many of his
cards he's wearing that "Sey Hey Kid" smile, but on this card he looks
like he's about to kick someone's a**. I like it!

Chuck

sellerman23 · October 19, 2003 1:00PM

I just started collecting the set earlier in the year.
I think it's a great set. I never thought I would start it because of the expense and the fact that everyone and their uncle seems to be going after these cards. But I just couldn't help myself.
Here is a link to my set:

My 1952 Topps set

I'm just under 10%, but am just putting together a submission of 80 different cards that I picked up mostly at the National. Most will be about PSA 4 and 5. This is how I'm doing the set affordably. And it's not super expensive that way, either. I'll worry about the Mantle, etc. when I get there. Hopefully by that time, I'll be a millionaire anyways.

About the Jansen card, I think it's along the same lines as the Zernial card, but it relates to some type of pitching feat from the previous season. I'm not sure about the Priddy card, but I know that Johnny Mize also has numerous bats on his shoulder in his horizontal card.

One of the things I like about the cards is the use of all the colors for backgrounds. You literally have all shades of the rainbow in the various backgrounds, including pink, purple, bright green, bright pink, bright yellow, and others. And there are a few cards that have half yellow and half red backgrounds separated with a diaginal break. I belive that Johnny Sain and Herman Wehmeier are examples of this.

One more thing I think is attractive but no one seems to pick up on is the width of the borders. I have never seen an issue with so much white on the edges. I don't know how this would be classified as "attractive" but when you get a card with perfect centering, it just looks so great! Some of the high numbers also seem to have wider than usual borders, it seems.

This is such a classic set.
I am very excited about it.

Dave
sellerman23

CW · October 19, 2003 1:16PM

I can see exactly what you're saying about the borders, Dave. It seems
to be both a blessing and a curse, which I'm sure you've experienced in
digging for these cards. Since these cards seem so tough to find
perfectly centered, once you find one that *is* perfectly centered
the beauty becomes even more evident.

Good luck with your set!

Davalillo · October 19, 2003 1:18PM

Black and red backs are for first series only and (very) serious collectors try to collect both.
I consider this the greatest of all postwar sets as it is Topps first set and a classic. While both the Mantle and Mays rookie cards were in the 1951 Bowman set, these two cards(particularly Mantle) are the highlights of the set. The first and last cards of the set(Pafko and Matthews) are very difficult in high grade.
Perhaps because it is so expensive to collect in 8 or better, I do not sense that there are many collectors trying to put together psa 8 and better sets. Hence, some of thye low pop commons have actually come down in price(Wehmeier,Crandall,Maxwell).
I have about 320 in psa 8 or better currently but the last 87 will be tough and expensive.
I think the first series is the most difficult(1-80) perhaps in part because some collect both red and black versions. I believe it was the last series which Topps reportedly threw mass quantities into the ocean.
On the registry, the BIG 4 collectors all have complete sets with over an 8.0 rating. Charlie Merkel has an unbelievable 8.73 set rating. I have contributed modestly to that.
I may add more later as its getting late.

Davalillo

murcerfan · October 19, 2003 2:12PM

Gus is posed with 7 baseballs stuck to his bat to honor his record Home Run streak

gemint · October 19, 2003 2:38PM

I am casually building this set in PSA 8 (will probably take 200 years to complete). I look for high end 8's from the more affordable series' for the time being. Is it just me or do the grading companies go a bit easier on the '52s? I've seen some dog ugly 8s out there (mostly in the '0XXXXX..." serial numbers). I shy away from any card that has a diamond cut, which is not an insignificant percentage for this issue. That's why I will probably never complete the set.

Griffins · October 19, 2003 2:44PM

I think Jansen is holding up 2 fingers on one hand and 5 on the other because he had won 25 games the season before.

Davillilo-
I assume from your post you consider the set complete at 407 + 80 red/black. Will you also add 2 for the Page /Sain wrong back errors (do these come in red and black variations each as well?) and the Mantle variation (stitching on the baseball in back horizontal and vertical)? The set is tough enough, add in another 85 variations including Mantle and this one will be tough in 8.

The story I had read about the high numbers was that Topps had got them out too late and the stores didn't want them late in the season. What they had were mostly distributed in Canada, but there were lots left over. About 1960 they took them off Long Island and dumped them in the ocean.

Bkritz · October 19, 2003 3:34PM

I am about 80% or so finished with the 52 set. I am # 13 on the registry. This set has been a blast to grade and upgrade. I am B and R's 1952 set on the Registry (my father and I are doing it together.) If anyone has any of the 60 or so I need in PSA 7 NQ, I am interested. I have about 50 or so raw 52's that I have upgraded. If anyone is interested in psa 4 or 5 and some 8OC quality commons from all the first 3 series, let me know. I would be happy to sell or trade for the PSA 7's I need. Other serious trade offers will also be considered. Here is a list of the overflow that I have at the moment.
15 red back (pesky), ,16, black back 26 black back (Irvin 8 MC), 44 black, 58 red, 60 black, 61 red, 63 red, 81, 85, 93, 97, 99 (woodling), 100, 109, 110, 125, 132, 134, 137, 138, 139, 145, 157, 160, 167, 176, 180, 192, 194, 198, 208, 213, 219 (Schantz), 226, 229, 240, 244, 255, 258, 269, 275, 276, 278, 285, 295 (Cavaretta), 300, 302.
Email me at briankritz@aol.com if you are interested

Thanks

Brian

murcerfan · October 19, 2003 4:41PM

Deja Vu all over again

RonD · October 19, 2003 6:31PM

Still one of my favorite cards from the set.

RayBShotz · October 19, 2003 9:15PM

Jaxxr - My guess on the Jansen thing would be this. Think of the Jansen card from his perspective and hold up those fingers. Thats 5 on your left hand and 2 on your right hand. Look at it for your self. That's 52 as in 52' Topps. Just a hunch. Anyone else know for sure?

RayB69Topps

Davalillo · October 19, 2003 9:21PM

Griffins,

Consider Page/Sain variations and having 1-80 in both black back and red back for a "true" complete set. Not the Mantle variation which frankly I have never heard of. I am just trying to get to 407 cards in psa 8 or better but without the Pafko and Matthews and the need to upgrade Mantle from 8 o/c it is a daunting(and expensive) task.

You may well be right on the dumping story.

My mother's favorite card in this set is 253-John Berardino(not sure if this is right number and spelling) who played Dr. Hardy on General Hospital for many years.

Davalillo

jaxxr · October 19, 2003 9:25PM

Murcerfan,
Gus has six BBs stuck to his bat, not seven. I think 6 was the record for HRs in 3 consec. games at the time.

I will guess Jansen has 7 fingers up to verify the number of kids he has, noted on the card back info.

Also interesting is the fact that 407 cards issued in the 52 set was duplicated in 1957 by Topps, the year the now "standard" size for sportscards was begun.

Ullr · October 20, 2003 12:17AM

The '52's are one of the all-time best card designs.
I am a big fan of the horizontal cards.
Here is my only 1952 topps card and one of my favorites.

murcerfan · October 20, 2003 1:05AM

Jaxxr,
although only six balls can be seen on Ole Ozark Ike's bat.....

......I'm gonna stick with my original reply.

» May 17, 1951: Gus Zernial hits his 7th home run in four successive games to tie the major-league record set by Tony Lazzeri in 1936, as his A's beat the Browns 7–6.

let's dis....Gus this some more

Griff-
I have heard the same stories of the hi-series dumping (although I never heard it was in L.I. Sound), I heard that the printer delivered the last series behind schedule and this exacerbated the late distribution issues.

I too have heard the Jansen thing was based on 25 wins...being his 15 minutes of fame and all.

The opposite hand stitching on the little baseball logos on the back was done, I am told, to both the Mantle and Robinson cards that were added to the bottom right hand of the sheet to fill it out. I also "heard" that the way the sheets were handled many of the corner cards were damaged during production.
On all these points I could be wrong (disclaimer), but it makes for interesting lore at any rate.

The53Kid · October 20, 2003 4:05AM

Here is a link to an interesting article on 52's and 53's. Some of the information is repeated from above conversations, but I thought it was a fun read...

52 Topps Printing Runs and more

PlayBall · October 20, 2003 5:41AM

Waittilltheytrytosell weighs in on high numbers

And Curmudgeon....

Marshall Fogel story of set break

Hopefully these links work.

RayBShotz · October 20, 2003 6:17AM

I have always felt that this was the set to build. The "holy grail" of baseball card sets. I bought a few cards in the low grade arena; a couple of PSA 3's and 4's initially. Although having the cards in hand was an otherworldly experience I really wanted to have somewhat nicer examples.
I sold them.
Recently I took a strong measure of what would satisfy me in terms of grade from this set and settled on trying to find strong PSA 6 and occasional 7 examples. Studying the market for these and taking a few shots at winning them on ebay I quickly realized that the 52's may well be the most aggressively sought after card in this grade level out there. Prices realized are generally very strong. Good news - inherent value. Bad news - Not easy to acquire inside the constraints of my budget.
So between the high price/strong competition of just the basic commons, the "do I collect the high numbers?" dilemma, and the not affordable in my preferred grade stars, I elected to drop my quest for the time being.
So now when I want to gaze at those 52's I just break out my Topps coffee table book that displays the complete sets and turn to the appropriate page and dream! :-)

I sure like the looks of those 54's though. Stay tuned.
RayB69Topps

sagard · October 20, 2003 7:57AM

Part 2 of Fogel Story

Virtualizard · October 20, 2003 8:00AM

<< <i>Still one of my favorite cards from the set. >>

Ron,

Could Clyde King be Adam Sandler's father (or uncle, maybe)?

JEB.

murcerfan · October 20, 2003 8:58AM

When Topps launched the baseball-card strategy, Berger was chosen as its point man. The first year, 1951, was a disaster. "The finish smelled like kerosene," he says. They were actually game cards, not very interesting graphically, and no match for the rival 1951 Bowman cards.

Berger dramatically improved the design for '52 and it sold so well, Topps decided to produce a second series. "By the time it came out, it was World Series time. We learned that kids don't buy baseball cards at World Series time because football is starting," Berger told the Associated Press last year. "We had a lot of cards left over, packed in boxes in our warehouse." Berger hired a garbage boat, loaded the cards and rode with them as a tugboat pulled them off the New Jersey shore. In a flash, the cards were dumped into the Atlantic Ocean. "I don't know how many cards there were, but it was enough to make you a millionaire," he said. "We didn't know."

Topps information for the masses

koby · October 20, 2003 9:17AM

Great article. This was sad to read:

"Topps is now a publicly-owned company, with worldwide distribution of candy and novelty cards. Its revenue in the last fiscal year was more than $374 million. Pokemon cards generated $170 million in sales in the first three-quarters of the current fiscal year."

Buccaneer · October 20, 2003 10:47AM

This is a great thread, thanks for starting this.

TWINRON · October 20, 2003 12:14PM

MY MASTER SET (#6 ON THE REG) CONSISTS OF 500 CARDS AS EXPLAINED IN MY LEAD-IN PARAGRAPH. MY ANALYSIS AGREES WITH GEORGE VRECHEK WITH THE 6 PRINT RUNS WITH 2 100-CARD SHEETS. I HAVE IDENTIFIED WHAT CARDS WERE SINGLED-, DOUBLED-, TRIPLED- , and QUADRUPLE- PRINTED. THE FIRST PRINTING HAS CAUSED ME THE MOST DIFFICULTY WITH 40 TRIPLE PRINTS and 40 DOUBLE PRINTS. IN RED AND BLACK. THE SAIN and FAIN ERRORS ARE IN BLACK ONLY AND THE COLOR VARIATIONS ARE ALSO ONLY IN THE BLACK BACKS. I HAVE 496 OF 500 GRADED WITH 234 PSA8's AND 231 PSA7's. I DON'T EVEN COME CLOSE TO THE MERKEL and FOGEL, ETC. , BUT I LIKE MY SET NONE THE LESS.

Set Discussion of the Week - 1952 Topps Baseball

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