The great Morgan Dollar Xray experiment. - updated.

mgoodm3 · October 13, 2003 4:30AM

I had promised to try to xray a Morgan Dollar to see if I could read the date. This was to attempt to identify the date of a GSA dollar without opening the package. So far it's a bust. I have been unable to get a decent image so that the date can be read. Mammography seems to have the greatest potential for success. I have some further ideas. I'll update this if I find out more. If I ever get a good picture I will post it. There may not be enough relief on the dollars to get enough contrast for the pic.

jbsteven · October 13, 2003 4:34AM

<< <i>Mammography seems to have the greatest potential for success >>

I know someone can come up with a witty line for this somehow! Where is Russ when you need him?

keep up the work on trying to find out those dates!

Bochiman · October 13, 2003 4:34AM

Thanks for trying...
As I read the thread on this this weekend, I thought about XRays as well, then I saw later that some had the same thought. I am glad you are checking on it to see.

The other question, and I hope it isn't too silly, is that: Could you see if the package had been opened then glued back together? What I mean is that if it had been opened very carefully, there still should be some tearing of the wood fibers, right? Whereas if it was an original seal, then just the glue would be there.

Does that make sense?

(I now own an unopened one which is why I ask....I bought from a reputable source, but he didn't own it for the last 30 years, so I am still curious).

Ron

DragonAzz · October 13, 2003 4:35AM

What about MRI or Sonagram?

mgoodm3 · October 13, 2003 4:43AM

Metal and MRI don't get along well. The metal causes a lot of distortion and doesn't create any useful signal. Ultrasound may be OK, but there will be an air gap from the paper to the plastic and from plastic to coin. Ultrasound and air don't get along well.

supercoin · October 13, 2003 4:51AM

Cool, it'd be interesting to see your first attempt if there's any detail at all to be seen.

I wonder also if you could use an orthoscopic (term?) device like those used to snake into your body to look around. If they are available small enough, or if you custom-made one for this purpose, maybe you could easily conceal the damage to the box.

Owners of unopened GSA boxes might want to sell them at a premium before technology improves any further.

mgoodm3 · October 13, 2003 5:00AM

The problem with Xrays is that silver is dense and difficult to penetrate. Once you get enough power to penetrate it you tend to get a lot of scatter which degrades the film. Also, there isn't much difference in the thickness of metal between the relief and the planchet. that thickness difference is what provide all the contrast for an image. I think it can be done, but I just don't know if the usual radiographic equipment will do the job.

mgoodm3 · October 13, 2003 7:45AM

Somewhat good news. I brought back a half dime and a buffalo nickel after lunch to try out. The buffalo made an OK picture and the half dime marginal. I will post them later today when I get home. I chose the buffalo because of the high relief and not silver. The half dime just because it's small and thin.

airplanenut · October 13, 2003 7:46AM

Just open the box... it'll be easier

mgoodm3 · October 13, 2003 7:50AM

For the GSA's I think you are correct. I think I will make one of the pictures my icon. 15th is icon upload day.

Barry · October 13, 2003 8:02AM

Maybe some dental xray equipment would work with something dense like a coin.

mgoodm3 · October 13, 2003 8:06AM

Might. I don't much about dental films, but they are high resolution.

DCAM · October 13, 2003 8:23AM

Can you get a CT slice of just the face of the coin? Or combine multislices for an image, or try a scout film on the box.

mgoodm3 · October 13, 2003 8:28AM

It may be difficult with CT also. Metal can throw up some nasty artifact on CT also. The resolution you would need to see the date would probably limit CT. A scout film from CT again probably doesn't have the resolution needed. I think the main problem with Morgans is the lack of subject contrast, thick planchet without too much relief.

MadMarty · October 13, 2003 8:38AM

You never know you might make the first GLOW IN THE DARK GSA!!!

RGL · October 13, 2003 10:03AM

Hmmmm ... no wonder you have to wait forever for your tests. Some sucker is back there employing sophisticated, expensive medical technology on ... coins.

As for the mammography suggestion, quite titillating.

cosmos66 · October 13, 2003 10:46AM

<< <i>Mammography seems to have the greatest potential for success. >>

Yeah ... be sure and keep us abreast of the situation LOL

Paul in Pine Hill

dddangerousdan · October 13, 2003 10:52AM

<< <i>

<< <i>Mammography seems to have the greatest potential for success >>

I know someone can come up with a witty line for this somehow! Where is Russ when you need him?

keep up the work on trying to find out those dates! >>

OK I'll try Mammography will only work with BUST dollars

DAN

mgoodm3 · October 13, 2003 10:59AM

Who needs Russ when you have all of the quality mammo comments coming out.

Trooper · October 13, 2003 11:23AM

The dental xray thing won't work. I tried it last time I went to the dentist. The dentist got a kick out of doing it for me after I told him what might be in it. He tried different levels of intensity and all you could make out was a round disc. I actually have the Xray somewhere. It's probably at the bank in the deposit box or just under a pile of stuff.
Tom

ccr · October 13, 2003 11:53AM

Man you lucky dog!

Sounds like you have a better Morgan Dollar then I got!

Trooper · October 13, 2003 12:15PM

CCR
The round GSA's are the easy ones. It's those oval ones that are the toughies.

Conder101 · October 14, 2003 4:56AM

MadMarty has the answer with his comment about making a glow in the dark GSA. Your energy level isn't high enough with X-rays. What you need is a good neutron bombardment source. That gives you two options. One, a longer term lower energy bombardment followed by a loooong exposure to the x-ray film on the irradiated side. Or two, a higher energy bombardment with the film behind the coin.

In the first case the coin is briefly made radioactive and its reemmissions create an image on the x-ray film. In the second the neutrons have more penetration power than x-rays do and they will easily pass through the coin to strike the film. (You may actually have to use a flouresent screen insted as the neutrons may not react with the film. Any image seen in the second case will show both sides of the coin superimposed on each other.

bearcave · October 14, 2003 5:01AM

When he gets done with this will it be toned? If so would it be AT or NT?

Steve27 · October 14, 2003 6:10AM

I think it would be much easier to just read the inventory slip which the GSA sent with the coin.

The great Morgan Dollar Xray experiment. - updated.

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