New $20 bills - coming currency devaluation?

roadrunner · October 11, 2003 10:19AM

I read with interest Cliff Droke's aricle on the www.321gold.com website concerning the potential "upcoming currency devalution." While this topic has no doubt been discussed elsewhere before this,
it was the first time it was presented to me in a nice concise and clear format.

The upshot was that the FED is moving towards a 2 tier currency system where the usual greenback will circulate overseas and the new peach colored bills will be for domestic use only. The long range plan some say is to prohibit/limit the exchange of domestic dollars into other foreign currencies and commodites. Seems like a not too far fetched idea considering what will happen if the US dollar continues to get whalloped by other currencies. The stated reason for the new currency is counterfeits, the other is to ultimately support a 2 tier monetary system. Don't know that I buy the counterfeiting logic as the FED prints so much money now with no backing that it must dwarf (by a factor of 100 or a 1000?) what is counterfeited. How many counterfeiters print billions of dollars? No, the FED is doing a fine job of devaluing the currency all by themselves.

Gold is also discussed in the article and the magic 15% number appears. That is that the potential exists for the FED to outlaw bullion gold ownership down the road. Numismatic coins with less than 15% premium could be confiscated. In fact they go so far as to predict that the number may be raised even higher and to protect oneself consider only holding coins with 30-50% permiums to intrinsic value. Wheat cents at least will be safe. Now if only I can find a C5 transport to move my holdings to the buyer. Even MS62-63 Saints may not be safe, Along with all this will certainly be additional reporting requirements to ensure that dealers and collectors don't benefit too much from rising coin prices while US Dollar related investments tank. The FED will want everyone but the financially/politically connected to participate in the misery as misery loves company. Sounds like 1984....or 2004.

Interesting reading to anyone who buys gold and silver coins as well as bullion coins or is used to switching assests back and forth in varying currencies.

roadrunner

sinin1 · October 11, 2003 10:26AM

It is not the FED who is devaluaing the dollar but the federal fiscal policy - only they can spend more than bringing in year after year....

If the government decides to confiscate gold bullion, they better have a darn good reason - and I can't think of any

So many corporations are now multinational with production coming from other countries (NAFTA and GATT) that a 2 tier system will not be possible

When it the US Mint start having coins prodwuced overseas????

The US currency is being devalued on a daily/weekly basis - no need for a quick change

DCAMFranklin · October 11, 2003 10:29AM

GET REAL!!

We ARE the Jones'es !! We are the standard and that isn't going to change anytime soon.

wayneme · October 11, 2003 10:45AM

get real !!!!!
the government has done this before with less reasons
[pull gold]
don't think it won't happen now
we all may lives in our ivory towers but look around
50000 to 75000 jobs a month are lost in this country
and were printing our way out of these problems
money moves 7 to 9 times for each job lost do the math
your closer then you think
now we have our white collar jobs going over seas as its cheaper
to hire them over their
do you realize the Jones have lost 14% of the valve since july

fcloud · October 11, 2003 10:59AM

The sky is falling!!

wayneme · October 11, 2003 11:16AM

NOPE
ITS just changing colors

wayneme · October 11, 2003 11:17AM

if the facts worry you just buy something from walmart
don't be surpized when it says made in china on it

roadrunner · October 11, 2003 11:21AM

This was not meant to be a sky is falling thread. Just some ideas.
Sometimes ideas become reality. The govt needs no reason to do anything, just a majority vote by a several hundred legislators in Washington that are owned by special interests (big business). And in some cases, the president himself can dictate policy (Iraq). Big business overseas could get around the 2 tier system since the greenback will be used outside the US. The only real policy I know of is that the Govt wants to continue to transfer wealth from the Jones' and give it to the Haliburtons, ExxonMobils and Enrons of the world. Mr. Jones has no one in Congress or the Senate looking out for him.

Our democratic system is no longer that. We have essentiallya one party system with 2 different names......all with the same goal to keep the Jones' in check at the expense of the well-connected.
Wishing it ain't so won't change anything. Say it ain't so Mr. Jones.

roadrunner

indianabyron · October 11, 2003 11:33AM

The same issues were brought up the last time the currency was changed. Hello when the Euro was adopted in Euro countries the fear was exactly the same. Nothing is going to change there isnt going to be a 2 tier money system. This is going to be brought up anytime things change. As a country we are afraid to change our currency.

The gold issue was brought up the past 2 times the currency was changed. Its nothing but fear mongering. Dont buy into it. And if you do I have some high value land at the bottom of the Alantic ocean I have for sale. Contact me for information.

Byron

wayneme · October 11, 2003 11:39AM

this has nothing to do with the currency change this has to do with the
printing of us dollars with no backing to buy us out of our problem
get real as it has been said!!!

Russ · October 11, 2003 11:42AM

Now, a site called www.321gold.com wouldn't have any kind of agenda, would they?

Russ, NCNE

fcloud · October 11, 2003 11:48AM

We have a "Republic." This country is founded on business being able to succeed. The democrats think it is screw big business and tax us 'til we bleed. Well, without business most of the slugs like me don't have employment. All the entitlements the democrats want to hand out continue to hurt this country in many ways. Most people have no clue that the reason our country is so great is because of all the wealth generated from all the big business. Even as our economy is improving, the left on the hill continue to criticize our president.

To keep it in line with coins--I'll put it this way.
It has always amazed me how so many people think that if a coin dealer makes a profit they are screwing the customer. I will take the way this country was setup over any other type of government in the history of this world.

Wake up. Money make the world go ‘round. And even the whiney democrats know they can’t push too far to the left. Socialism and communism don’t work. You are being sucked in by the left and the biased media.

wayneme · October 11, 2003 11:48AM

the whole problem is stated on this thread we just can't believe were not the center of the world
we are in for changes like it or not
free trade china Mexico nafta
we are in times that are moving to a new order and we will not be in the lead
we are the biggest debtor nation in the world why would we be the richest
if it's free trade
you'll need to even the playing field and we owe the most
HELLO!!!!!

fcloud · October 11, 2003 11:52AM

The Sky is falling!!!

wayneme · October 11, 2003 11:55AM

it has always amazed me how so many people think that if a coin dealer makes a profit they are screwing the customer.

IF I DON'T HAVE A JOB WILL I BUY YOUR STUFF
AND YES YOUR SKY WILL FALL TO
THATS THE POINT!

fcloud · October 11, 2003 12:01PM

That is exactly what the democrats and most of the media want you to believe. The economy is recovering, but they keep spouting that it is getting worse. I wonder how long they will not be able to continue their coverup. Business and industry is improving, yet we keep hearing how bad it is. Maybe we just need more handouts.

roadrunner · October 11, 2003 12:04PM

Russ, open your wings a bit and read what the contrarian side is saying before you pooh pooh it. Your local newspaper and CNN isn't the only view out there. Also try safehaven.com and financialsense.com. There is more truth here than in your newspaper's financial section.

While nothing has happened during previous currency changes, this time we are in far deeper financial straights than at any time since 1929. Printing money and easy credit will not work forever. The FED wants us to consume our way out of debt. Does anyone buy this? We can always pay back our debts by just printing more $$$.
We have gone from a nation offering a strong manufacturing base to one that sells financial services and products. And now even those services can be done more cheaply overseas.

Our current course of action will take us out of the game.

roadrunner

michael · October 11, 2003 12:04PM

the golden rule

thems with the gold makes the rules

michael

wayneme · October 11, 2003 12:05PM

ha!!! HA !!!
well mister Bush
i think were doing fine things are looking great
i could care less who has the white house
who has our jobs makes me wonder

BigE · October 11, 2003 12:09PM

Most people don't realize that when the Federal government needs more money , they simply print it---------------BigE

wayneme · October 11, 2003 12:11PM

i like the tree guy

Deadhorse · October 11, 2003 12:13PM

<< ha!!! HA !!!
well mister Bush >>

That would be President Bush.

You should be concerned about who is in the White House.

Al Gore's tax plan would have cost me an additional 14K a year. He would have likely apologized to the Saudis for our buildings getting in the way of their student pilots.

I care a great deal when the differences were so great.

fcloud · October 11, 2003 12:15PM

Roosevelt pulled us off the gold standard in the 1930's, and our money has not been backed by silver since the 1960's. And, simply because we change the color of the ink, we panic. We should have paniced in 1933, and 1964 respectively.

Our paper isn't going to be backed up by paper of another color. Get real man.

Russ · October 11, 2003 12:15PM

<< Russ, open your wings a bit and read what the contrarian side is saying before you pooh pooh it. >>

RR,

I have read it - the same thing over and over from the gold bugs for the past 20 years. Sorry, but the mantra simply no longer has any credibility.

<< The economy is recovering, but they keep spouting that it is getting worse. >>

Tony is precisely correct. It bottomed in May of this year and has begun the climb upward. If you really want to know what is happening in the economy, ignore the ivory tower prognosticators and get out and talk to your small business community.

Russ, NCNE

roadrunner · October 11, 2003 12:17PM

Michael,

I agree with you on the gold. Hence a good reason why down the road, Mr. Bush may want to take away the gold from Mr. Jones and
Mr. Roadrunner. If we don't own it, we have no power. Gold doesn't play into the FED's role of manipulating the economy. Sort of explains why the FED, central banks and financial houses (Morgan, Lehman, et al) have done everything in their power to keep gold off the radar for so many years. If they cannot keep the gold price down, they will seriously consider taking it away from Mr. Jones but not Mr. Morgan.

Mr. Roadrunner

Deadhorse · October 11, 2003 12:19PM

Roadrunner,

I posted the entire article here earlier in the week and it was met with the same poo-pooing that you see now.

I am hesitant to ever post anything regarding bullion or economics on this forum again.

While I don't think we will see a two tier currency, the possibility of bullion being banned as a financial hedge isn't so far fetched.

The Hunt brothers were wiped out by the US government and it's illegal, 11th hour rule changes, not the bullion market.

wayneme · October 11, 2003 12:22PM

<< ha!!! HA !!!
well mister Bush >>

That would be President Bush.

the statement was for state of our finances not the state of our
world presents i support Mister bush on the Iraq war and our out look on the world
BUT we need to look at our finances in this country i believe he inherted these
problems from mister clinton but non the less we need to address the problems
to much money being printed to many jobs over seas

michael · October 11, 2003 12:28PM

roadrunner you are onto something

one of the better threads on here and also many good ideas and opinions to give you some food for thought and something to think about

i do not see any kind of gold recall or restriction !!??!!

just maybe a currency adjustment!!!!! LOL

within the next few years

michael

zardoz51 · October 11, 2003 12:30PM

The big danger sign of the eventual tanking of the dollar is the day that Russia will require payment for their oil in Euros, not dollars. It's just a matter of time before the arabs follow suit.

Now with China holding so much US debt, sooner or later, they will wake up and cease buying our paper that has devalued almost 20% against other currencies.

The picture ain't pretty folks

BigE · October 11, 2003 12:31PM

Will gold production keep up with dollar production, I think this is the answer----------BigE

roadrunner · October 11, 2003 12:32PM

Russ,

I kept on reading for 20 years that Modern Coins had no potential
and were worthless. Same for confederate currency. I finally believed it all too. Look at them now! Wonder if it makes any difference that the FED's policy since 1980 has been to keep gold down and the dollar strong?

Does 20 years of manipulation really predict the future? Free markets went by the wayside in 1980. Can the govt's policies really continue to steer markets to prevent a backlash effect? Does it make a difference that the central banks have sold off so much gold to depress the gold market? Is there enough left to do it for 20 more years? Or even 5 years? Or 1 year?

roadrunner

zardoz51 · October 11, 2003 12:33PM

Deadhorse

Keep posting, sooner or later, reality hits even the village idiot

Deadhorse · October 11, 2003 12:42PM

Zardoz51,

I believe the Russians have already stated that they are going to require Euros as an exchange medium for their oil and the Arabs States are openly talking about changing over to the Panda as their required exchange for oil.

If Venezuela makes a similar move towards the Euro, then the sauce may hit the airscrew sooner than anyone thinks.

fountainheadgold · October 11, 2003 12:42PM

This country learned that to get out of a recession you have to spend your way out. it is called the Lord -------- theory. Sorry I cannot remember his name, He was a Brit, who convinced our goverment that to end the great depression we had to spend our way out. It worked great. it worked so good yhat our goverment has used it several more times to get us out of recessions. every time it takes more and more and more to get it fixed. if it works this time i dare say it will be the last. and no the sky is not falling but it may be toning

wayneme · October 11, 2003 12:44PM

Now with China holding so much US debt, sooner or later, they will wake up and cease buying our paper that has devalued almost 20% against other currencies.

What if the allow them to buy gold with THEIR Dollars
O i guess they are
NEVER MIND

zardoz51 · October 11, 2003 12:58PM

<< If the government decides to confiscate gold bullion, they better have a darn good reason - and I can't think of any >>

Such blind faith in the Govt. !!!

Are you aware of the new reporting provisions that went into effect on Oct. 1 ?

Thanks to the "Patriot Act", the government now is certain that "terrorists" have a keen interest in bullion purchases, and bullion sellers are now required to report all "suspicious" sales. Of course, what is interpreted as "suspicious" is vague and I'm sure will be defined at a later date.

Do you homework. Research is a wonderful, but scary thing.

roadrunner · October 11, 2003 12:59PM

It was Lord John Maynard Keynes' philosophy who the US has been following since the 1930's. Basically: INFLATE, INFLATE, INFLATE!

GOOD POINT ON HOW MANY MORE TIMES THIS WILL GET THE US OUT OF A JAM.

Deadhorse keep posting. 2 years ago I too was totally blind to the mess we were getting into. At least now I see some truth.

roadrunner

sinin1 · October 11, 2003 2:19PM

it was my understanding the gov't sells more treasury bonds and treasury bills when they need more money to pay the interest on their previous debt

printing money is covered the same way isn't it?

Skipper53 · October 11, 2003 2:51PM

I've never understood how confiscating gold, or silver for that matter, can help
prop up an economy that's too undisciplined to keep within it's budget.
Finding new ways to squeeze taxpayers who are already working harder than
any other industrialized country to pay for the rest of the world's problems
will eventually cost a lot of politicians their jobs.

Robgetty · October 11, 2003 2:52PM

I think that people are spending a lot of time arguing about things that are not going to happen.

Not allow private bullion holding and only allowing coins with a "x" percentage value over spot??
Sounds like someone who is trying to sell a stack of MS65 $20 gold to people who are gullible enough
to believe what he is preaching. The question to ask when you hear something like this is "WHY?"
What rational benefit would the government get out of forbiding the private holding of bullion in this
day and age? It would make as much sense as someone claiming that the stock markets were going
to be closed next year, so you need to trade now before it is too late. THERE IS NO BASIS FOR BELIEVING
A REPORT LIKE THIS. The American Government issues bullion coins and encourages private ownership
of them. Heck, you are allowed to put them in IRA's.

2 tier currency with domestic and foreign US currency? You are talking about fairy tales. Yes, it would possibly
help with counterfitting. Yes, counterfitting is a problem that needs to be addressed. But let's look at
history. When we issued the new $100 and $50 dollar bills, one suggestion was to phase out the legality
of the old $50's and $100's. The philosophy was that many drug dealers, etc. keep large amounts of their
money in US $100's and $50's; by having a short window to exchange, they would be unable to launder that
many millions and would lose a lot. Actually, not a bad idea. The reason that we didn't do it is that every
piece of US currency is still good; backed by the faith and credit of the US government. The reprocussions of
having people out in the middle of nowhere with a single US $100 bill that suddenly becomes worthless was
not acceptable to the government. No one is going to do something that involves having legal tender notes
that can't be used out of a geographical boundary.

Deadhorse · October 11, 2003 3:38PM

The confiscation, melting and nearly 75% revaluation of gold helped FDR and the Congress inflate the U.S. economy during the mid and late 1930s.

This was one of many of FDR's failed policies in an attempt to get this country out of the depression. What finally got us out was WW II and FDR worked hard to get us into that too.

At that time many, many people including most of Congress considered it theft. However, Lincoln had shown the nation some 70 years previous that States' and individual rights were meaningless in the face of the federal monster with his war of northern agression.

Do I think there will be a similar confiscation? Not today, but who knows how screwed up things may be in the not too distant future.

Devaluation of the dollar? Seems more likely, but not today either.

Besides, there is no need to enforce confiscation if you simply make it worthless by making it illegal to sell by private citizens.

Cut to a federal prison in 2009.........

"What are you in for?" "Selling two ounces of cocaine, I got 5 years"

"You think that's bad, I got caught selling 4 ounces of Gold, I got 30 to life."

Yep, it's pretty far fetched, I agree. On the other hand....................this planet's currency valuation is overdue for a big shakeup and the US no longer calls all the shots, but they sure do call the shots when it comes to the citizens and our freedoms are a mere shadow of what they once were.

originalisbest · October 11, 2003 3:45PM

Why yes, I surely do feel less free nowadays, why, I'm afraid to go outside for all the ships spying on me. Git yer musket, maw, we're a-headin' fur the root cellar!

Waldo · October 11, 2003 3:50PM

1st. The new $20 is going to circulate overseas! The new $20 is replacing the old $20. The old $20 will be history in a few years.
2nd. The gov'mnt isn't going to take your gold. They are making a mint (pun intended) from selling gold coins!!!
3rd. The "paper" is backed by the full faith of the US government. This is good enough for foreign governments, it should be
good 'nuff for you.
4th, Gold sucks. Learn it, live it.

Deadhorse · October 11, 2003 4:01PM

<< 1st. The new $20 is going to circulate overseas! The new $20 is replacing the old $20. The old $20 will be history in a few years.
2nd. The gov'mnt isn't going to take your gold. They are making a mint (pun intended) from selling gold coins!!!
3rd. The "paper" is backed by the full faith of the US government. This is good enough for foreign governments, it should be
good 'nuff for you.
4th, Gold sucks. Learn it, live it. >>

Waldo, with all due respect:

1)Yes, I agree.

2)I agree, today. Can you predict the future? You must be a very wealthy man by now and I thank you for gracing us with your insight. What's that you say? Not rich beyond imagination from your psychic abilities? That's OK, you're just one of us regular folks, learn it, live it.

3)Here's the hitch in your belief system. It isn't any longer true. Keep up on world financial doings. You might be surprised at what you learn.

4)People who think that gold sucks remind me of the grasshopper in the Ant and Grasshopper story. I suppose silver, platinum and diamonds suck as well. How about oil? These are all common exchanges throughout the world, they can't all suck, can they?

Deadhorse · October 11, 2003 4:10PM

<< Why yes, I surely do feel less free nowadays, why, I'm afraid to go outside for all the ships spying on me. Git yer musket, maw, we're a-headin' fur the root cellar! >>

Self medication my be in order here. I understand you can buy Prozac over the internet these days, of course they may not accept US dollars in exchange. Your credit card can do the conversion and transaction for you anymore.

Or, drink less coffee, or drink more coffee, whichever seems to work best.

Personally, I feel a little more secure with my P-90 than a musket, but each to his own.

Waldo · October 11, 2003 4:16PM

[3)Here's the hitch in your belief system. It isn't any longer true. Keep up on world financial doings. You might be surprised at what you learn.

I do keep up! The dollar maybe down but that is normal historically. The government (read FED) wants the dollar down when the economy is down. A cheaper dollar makes US product more affordable and that increases sales of US products! More US products sold internationally boosts the US economy. More jobs!

4)People who think that gold sucks remind me of the grasshopper in the Ant and Grasshopper story. I suppose silver, platinum and diamonds suck as well. How about oil? These are all common exchanges throughout the world, they can't all suck, can they? >>

Diamonds suck!!!!! DeBeers is sitting on tons (literally!!!) of diamonds. They hold diamonds in vaults to artificially prop up prices.
Silver sucks!!! I sold all my silver at $35 an ounce (yeah, I know, I'm surprised at what I learn)
Oil is cool.

Waldo · October 11, 2003 4:20PM

<< 

<< Why yes, I surely do feel less free nowadays, why, I'm afraid to go outside for all the ships spying on me. Git yer musket, maw, we're a-headin' fur the root cellar! >>

Self medication my be in order here. I understand you can buy Prozac over the internet these days, of course they may not accept US dollars in exchange. Your credit card can do the conversion and transaction for you anymore.

Or, drink less coffee, or drink more coffee, whichever seems to work best.

Personally, I feel a little more secure with my P-90 than a musket, but each to his own. >>

I finally understand that old saying about beating a dead horse.

Deadhorse · October 11, 2003 4:31PM

I sold all my silver at about $40, but that was then and this is now.

You should know by now that you can't beat a Deadhorse..

zardoz51 · October 11, 2003 9:46PM

With all due respect to RobGetty

In 1972 , I owned (allegedly) a 1967 Canadian $20 Centennial gold piece. This was a criminal act. It wasn't that long ago and who's to say that doing so might not become a crime again?

Keep believing in the ferderal reserve notes folks. It's the belief that keeps the float floating.

Waldo's statement "The "paper" is backed by the full faith of the US government. This is good enough for foreign governments, it should be good 'nuff for you."

I agree! One very slight problem:

foreign governments are starting to look elsewhere for their reserves

Arab oil used to be priced in British Pounds. The exchange rate was $5US to One pound. It dropped to $2.80. With the talk of oil pricing being pegged to euros, perhaps a case of history repeating itself?

cladking · October 11, 2003 11:25PM

The drop of the dollar and the rise in gold relative to stable currency are not closely related.
The drop of the dollar against most other major currencies is more cyclical in nature than any-
thing else. It has been lower against most in the past and still has a significant way to go be-
fore there are new all time lows being set. Gold has been rising against all currencies because
the manipulation of its price has been faltering. Central bank sales are not sufficient to stem
its rise without selling unacceptable amounts of gold so it is being allowed to rise somewhat
before they step in again to stem its rise. There will be no more gold at that time but the higher
price will take more money out of the market.

While these are barely related, it is ludicrous to say that a change in design of the currency is
to somehow signal or cause a change in the nature of the country or the currency. These are
three nearly separate issues with their own driving forces which just happen to seem to coincide
to one man who wants to sell gold coins.

Of course with Aquarious rising in the east it might be a good time to buy clad coins.

1jester · October 11, 2003 11:35PM

Great posts by many, especially Roadrunner, Zardoz and Deadhorse.

New $20 bills - coming currency devaluation?

Comments

Leave a Comment