Need Buffalo Help - Grading, Greysheet

JohnZ · October 4, 2003 9:13AM

I went to a local dealer today and looked at two 1913 type I nickels, one slabbed by NGC, the other one raw. The raw one, pictured below, exhibited a much better strike than the one slabbed at MS65. Unfortunately, my scan stinks. I've been fiddling with it for half an hour to bring out all the detail to no avail. I've GOT to get professional photography equipment.

Just trust me that this coin is significantly sharper than the slabbed MS65. I'm wondering if the NGC coin is overgraded, or if I've found a nice sleeper. Can anyone help me with a good pic of MS65+ Buffalo Nickels, and does anyone have greysheet bid and ask for this coin at 65,66, and 67?

And if in fact my coin is better than a 65, what would you guys expect to pay for it raw?

I won't say what I paid for it until I get your input. Then we'll find out if I suck or if I'm just a sucker.

Edited to add that there is about a 10 degree die rotation.

My lousy scan that makes it look EF:

jdimmick · October 4, 2003 9:24AM

1913-P Ty I buffalo is 105/115 in Ms-65.
Youll have to get someone with a blue sheet to give you values on the 66/67 level. I dont carry the bluesheet, becuase I dont buy sight unseen or bulk.

Added:

Typically Ty I 13-P buffalo's come with better than average strikes, there is sometimes weakness in the prephiery and LIBERTY. As far as the NGC-65, as long as the coin does not have a poor or weak strike, it should not interfere with a coin grading 65 on the surface prservation and marks.

Your photo does not look like a 65 coin to me, but then again its a photo. In fact as you mentioned, looks more like an AU coin with late die characteristics. It is possible that your coin may be better struck and have a better look than the NGC-65 becuase the detail gives the impression of a higher graded coin, but not necessairly be as well preserved.

jim

JohnZ · October 4, 2003 9:28AM

Thank J. The dealer was asking $130 for the slabbed MS65, so that's within reason.

I'm wondering if I should send this one in. Again, apologies for the inadequate scan.

BigD5 · October 4, 2003 9:36AM

Judging just from your scan, and as usual, that can be awfully tough, the pictured coin looks no better than ms/64. It's "ticky", with "soft" obv. detail. The reverse is lacking head detail, and the tail could be better. The coin doesn't look very lustrous, although that is probably a byproduct of the scan.
Not a bad coin, but probably cost you $60-$70ish. No ms/65.
1913 T1 buffalo's are easy to find fully struck and lustrous. Not so with other dates in the series.

JohnZ · October 4, 2003 10:03AM

BigD, thank you. Let me assure you that there is nothing soft about the coin compared to the MS65 I saw today. In fact it's much sharper. It's all in the sh/t-ass scan.

Also, the coin has a nice original luster - another thing scans can't capture.

I paid $65. Damn, you're good!

jonesy · October 4, 2003 10:38AM

Hard to tell from that scan. With a full date and Five Cents added with being able to see the full liberty, it might grade higher. Can we see another scan??

JohnZ · October 4, 2003 10:53AM

It won't do any good, Jonesy. I've been trying to get a good scan all night. Like I said, I need professional photo equipment.

If anyone's got good pics of 65+ Buffalo Nickels, I would love to see them.

Also, anyone out there with bluesheet bid/ask on 66 and higher?

jonesy · October 4, 2003 11:10AM

Heritage has a 65+ NGC

JohnZ · October 4, 2003 11:46AM

Hmmm. OK. Heritage has an NGC MS66 and a PCGS MS67. Their pics show a great deal more luster than my silly scan, but not very much more detail, especially in the feathers.

Well, I guess I'm decided. It's going in with my next submission, and we'll see where the chips fall.

BigD5 · October 4, 2003 12:25PM

Don't send that coin in. Well, you can do as you like, but I really don't see that coin grading higher than a 4. To chalk up any more money into that coin, will just bury you further into it. "Bury" may be an incorrect term, but you just don't have to spend any more dough on that particular coin. If your slabbed 5 (where are those pics?) is "softer", my guess is that the luster is superior to the imaged coin, and and it has less marks.

Bulldog · October 4, 2003 12:30PM

Methimsk that Big D is spot on, with his info!

Bulldog

JohnZ · October 4, 2003 12:41PM

Don't send that coin in. Well, you can do as you like, but I really don't see that coin grading higher than a 4. To chalk up any more money into that coin, will just bury you further into it. "Bury" may be an incorrect term, but you just don't have to spend any more dough on that particular coin. If your slabbed 5 (where are those pics?) is "softer", my guess is that the luster is superior to the imaged coin, and and it has less marks.

I don't have the slabbed 5. I compared this one to the slabbed 5 at the dealer, and found it to be a better strike, with about the same luster. Sorry. I couldn't possibly give you a better pic of the slabbed one anyway. Screw scans. Ignore the scan entirely. The scan sucks, and by the way, it's a bad scan.

I know it's all you guys have to go on, and I very much appreciate the help. If I've learned anything from this, it's that I need to get that pro photo stuff and learn how to really take good pics.

caitlin · October 4, 2003 11:04PM

Hi John
I've always found it very hard to judge the grade of an coin from a scan. To many variables, luster ,dings, detail etc. From the scan I'd say maybe ms62-63. Here's an image of my 1913 ms63 buff hope this helps. If you need or want any other ms64-66 buffs posted just let me know. Heritage archives is a great reference as well. I'd be more than willing to post images.Good luck.

MacCoin · October 4, 2003 11:22PM

I would have call it a 64 from the scan but the only MS buffs I have are from my reg type set and a few bu raw ones I pick out of a bargan basket years ago when the were cheap.

Shamika · October 4, 2003 11:38PM

JohnZ,

Although the strike on your coin does look pretty good, the luster looks lousy. 1913-P type 1's have really nice luster so you shouldn't settle for anything less.

I have a PCGS 65 and a PCGS 66 that both have super luster besides a great strike. I wish I could show them to you.

darktone · October 5, 2003 12:11AM

Hi John, I thought you and others would find this one I got a few months ago interesting to compare to your coinLINK. I am not really much of a Buffalo grader but I think the luster will be the determining factor on the grade of your coin. The strike on your coins looks like it's from worn dies and does appear to be on the weak side. I'll let you know what mine graded after you get a chance to look over the pictures. mike

Shamika · October 5, 2003 3:24AM

Darktone,

If your Buffalo is mint state (looks AU-55), I'd guess it graded MS62. I'm just not seeing the luster. Maybe it's the scan.

I hope I'm wrong. (fingers crossed)

JohnZ · October 5, 2003 8:09AM

Thank you all so much for your help! It's greatly appreciated. My coin does have some luster, but not as much as I've seen in your pics, and the Heritage auctions. At any rate, it's a very respectable addition to my Dansco Type album. If I were to pay $1400 for an MS67, it would certainly stay in the slab.

Need Buffalo Help - Grading, Greysheet

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