A detailed explanation of why I find a Hilter mustache on a Liberty (the Peace Dollar ) thread offen

wingedliberty · September 29, 2003 10:21AM

It boils down to this. I own Hindenburg Third Reich coinage with the swaztika as well as coins with Lenin, Caligula, and other notorious figures in history. There is nothing wrong with the pursuit of history through numismatics, but here is where the line should be drawn.
When you compare a Peace dollar mustache to a Hitler portrait, it diminishes and insults everything that our alegorical depiction of Liberty stands for and you diminish the memory of those brave men who died at Omaha beach being mowed down by German machine gun batteries. Or do we forget so quickly.
Pursue history through numismatics all you want, but comparing Liberty on a Peace dollar to a Hitler mustache in UnAmerican. Is nothing sacred anymore?, or am I going to hear more constitutional free speach arguments on how its ok to burn the flag. Just my opinion.

Bear · September 29, 2003 10:25AM

It is a matter of showing sensetivity and correctness is bestowing

nicknames to toned American coins. While I might criticise the US Mint

for producing shoddy designs, I am still proud of the Nation those coins

represent. I would not use a pejorative name such as Hitler, in connection

with anything American, whether coins , stamps or anything else.

coppercoins · September 29, 2003 10:31AM

<< <i>Pursue history through numismatics all you want, but comparing Liberty on a Peace dollar to a Hitler mustache in UnAmerican. >>

amen.

<< <i>Is nothing sacred anymore?, or am I going to hear more constitutional free speach arguments on how its ok to burn the flag. Just my opinion. >>

You're probably going to hear from that group, but we know it's that group that has ruined our country already.

wingedliberty · September 29, 2003 10:53AM

Coppercoins:
You are right, it is unfortunate that they don't get it.

SarasotaFrank · September 29, 2003 11:04AM

here is where the line should be drawn

in your opinion.

No one is comparing Liberty to Hitler, nor our country to Nazi Germany.

I am certainly not defending Hitler or the Nazis, however, the same crew that throws a fit at an inference to Hitler then jump in their Nissans and drive home to be amused by electronics from Japan.

The atrocities committed against American soldiers by Japan during World War II pale by comparison to the combat and POW treatment of Americans by the German Army.

Yup they were all out to kill each other in war for their country.

War criminals from Japan floated right back into life in Japan and many became captains of industry. War criminals from Germany were tried, convicted and hanged - as they should have been.

Military leaders from Japan who took part in the starvation, torture and random beheading of American POWs in the Pacific and had the blood of thousands of American soldiers on their hands took to selling us cars. The victims were our fathers, uncles, brothers and in some cases grand parents. POWs may have come back from Europe a little worse for wear, but at least the majority of them came back. The Pacific is strewn with the bodies of US soldiers murdered as POWs. Killed in combat is one thing - murdering prisoners is something else.

As an aside, I'll never forget the heroism of the World War II allied soldier. My icon is the insignia of the crack armored division of Patton's Third Army - the Fourth Armored Division - where my father served for five years. He landed at Utah Beach three weeks after Normandy and fought his way through 289 days of combat on the continent, including the Battle of the Ardennes, the Battle of the Bulge and the race to Bastogne, earning the Bronze Star and a Purple Heart in exchange for five of the prime years of his life. I honor his memory and his heroism.

flame away.

coinkat · September 29, 2003 11:07AM

Well, let's think about this for a moment... other examples could have been used such as Charlie Chaplin, Groucho Marx, Ernie Kovacs, Ben Turpin (probably few will even know who he is...) and to be political, it could have been called the Thomas Dewey Peace Dollar... The TR Peace Dollar? Why NOT? He did win the Nobel Peace Prize in 1905...

Louis · September 29, 2003 11:07AM

I agree SarasotaFrank.

Bear · September 29, 2003 11:09AM

Hey Saresota Frank, can we burn your toast.

wingedliberty · September 29, 2003 11:21AM

It would have been just as offensive compared to Hirohito.

PTVETTER · September 29, 2003 11:54AM

I'm not very well written, but I will say this" the freedom that we all have was paid for by those willing to pay the ulitmate price. We must all tolerate the views of others, weather you or I agree." Sometimes one chooses a wrong word or two by mistake, and some do it on purpoes, it's a fine line that we must try to understand.

relayer · September 29, 2003 2:55PM

Perhaps you are overly sensitive because you enjoy collecting Nazi memorabilia. Personally I find that offensive, considering the genocide of the Third Reich, but apparently in your mind your pursuit in that area is noble. So I’ll respect your freedom to engage in such activity however strange and offensive I find it to be.

But let’s get back to reality and the topic at hand. We are talking about a COIN that has TONING which looks like it has a MUSTACHE.

Besides Hitler, others have mentioned Charlie Chaplin, and Groucho Marx as well as some obscure references like Thomas Dewey and Joe’s neighbor Stanley.

There is no cigar or glasses, so Groucho is out. I didn’t think of Chaplin (sorry, I didn’t spend a lot of time doing research) but I did think of some Italian women that DO have mustaches and I thought was funny but figured some Italians might not.

Now let me explain why HITLER PEACE is funny. First, it’s an oxymoron:

ox·y·mo·ron [ òksee máwròn ] (plural ox·y·mo·ra)
noun

expression with contradictory words: a phrase in which two words of contradictory meaning are used together for special effect, for example, “wise fool” or “legal murder”

Second, it’s ironic.

i·ro·ny [ eyeronee ] (plural i·ro·nies)
noun

1. humor based on opposites: a type of humor based on using words to suggest the opposite of their literal meaning

2. something humorous based on contradiction: something said or written that uses sardonic humor

3. incongruity: incongruity between what actually happens and what might be expected to happen, especially when this disparity seems absurd or laughable

4. incongruous thing: something that happens that is incongruous with what might be expected to happen, especially when this seems absurd or laughable

Personally I don’t understand the mindset of “right thinking Americans” but as long as wingledliberty and coppercoins understand each other, then more power to you.

But sometimes a banana is just a banana.

zenny · September 29, 2003 3:07PM

we advance, we retrace our story

i believe that's how it goes....

relayer · September 29, 2003 3:16PM

LOL - That's right Zenny.

I used to have it on my sig line - I think I'll add it again. Thanks

dorkkarl · September 29, 2003 8:59PM

you can find value in being offended. you just have to look for it.

K S

JoyofCollecting · September 29, 2003 10:06PM

The post was no more offensive than a Three Stooges skit or the recent Broadway show. "Hitler mustache" is used because everyone immediately identifies it and understands what you are talking about. Everyone identifies it....because it has been so continuously mocked.

My uncle was killed by Germans at Normandy and my father parachuted into Normandy the night before the invasion of the beaches. I was not offended by the "Hitler Peace" dollar and think a person would really have to stretch their intellect to even begin to think that the poster was trying to glorify Hitler or compare Miss Liberty to Hitler.

Go eat some Cheerios!!!!!

MadMonk · September 29, 2003 10:11PM

Just because someone says something does not make it so.

BillF · September 29, 2003 10:25PM

Somebody in my family line has served in the U.S. military for as long as we've been a nation. My ancestors even fought on this continent before we became a nation.

I found the original post humorous, in the (a?) tone intended. More of a sarcastic comment on an unusual coin. Not something meant to glorify something terrible.

With that said, how many people loved the Mel Brooks (I believe he is Jewish) movie "The Producers"? I believe the play currently running in New York is the same. I saw the movie many years ago, and laughed hysterically (like I do at most Mel Brooks movies). I still remember the skit part about Nazi Germany, when they all start singing "It's Springtime for Hitler, In Germany". It didn't glorify Hitler or the Nazi's, it was a parody, meant to be funny, not to make a political statement espousing the views of something dispicable.

DrWho · September 29, 2003 10:40PM

a faux pas by the thread originator. forgiven, however it WAS VERY OFFENSIVE. another figure that could match the coin would have been stalin, equally OFFENSIVE.

should have used groucho marx.

razorface1027 · September 29, 2003 11:14PM

Well, since we're comparing, what if we compared it(the coin) to L.B.J., Tricky Dick, Slick Willy, or the ever popular..George Bush"wacker"Jr & Sr.; would there be so much controversy? What if these boards were being posted in some second or third world country; whereas, we are bestowed fanactics for world domination only prevelant in a more SUPRESSED overtone(i.e. we're just slick about it through a multiplicity of prevaracation to our people via our ever popular news medium). Of course, we'd like to believe/be highly opinionated(I've never actually been able to distinguish the two) that we/our country's leaders a.k.a. supressing dictators, weren't perpetuitous in such hideous/abhorrant actions like those fanatics mentioned at this forum(we'd like to BELIEVE they weren't). When you get to the hard core of what we THINK we know regarding our country's past, and other countries for all that it's worth, one will find that configurations were, and will be, conflated through history, literature and myth. What we read and hear is one aspect of our lives where we must possess differentiability. What we see and experience is our true motivation for living. To make this story short, and I'd like to use a short by Lucretius from De Rerum Natura: "The GUILTY mind is it's own torturer!" When applying the preceeding when speaking or thinking about OUR government officials(those still breathing air along with those that have ventured to the afterlife, heaven, paradise, nirvana, and so on and so forth), it does make one(me and maybe those that somewhat comprehend the above) feel good that they can actually go to bed at night with a clear conscience in the knowledge that they aren't part of the american lie but part of the american dream. Let's face it...we're a gullible group of people. Moreover, when thinking or speaking about american government officials and the news medium, "lies arise often not from commission, but from omission: what was NOT said as opposed to what was," you're now barking up the RIGHT tree now....That's ENTERTAINMENT!...

bigindie · September 30, 2003 7:31AM

Brian -- Thanks for trying to clarify your feelings on this. Unfortunately some still find it necessary to argue when you appear to be trying to clear things up.

Frank -- My grandfather was in the Battle of Ardennes and the Battle of the Bulge. He earned a Bronze Star too!

A detailed explanation of why I find a Hilter mustache on a Liberty (the Peace Dollar ) thread offen

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