Monster Rainbow SAE

Morganluver · September 5, 2003 12:10PM

What do ya think of this one friends ?

Placid · September 5, 2003 12:12PM

Wow! I am suprised pcgs didn't call it AT though.

Did you get it like that? If not how was it stored?

airplanenut · September 5, 2003 12:13PM

Very cool

jbsteven · September 5, 2003 12:19PM

Morganluver · September 5, 2003 12:28PM

Placid,

Just got it yesterday already slabbed. I'm still trying to figure out how it toned myself. Couldn't pass it up though.

rainbowroosie · September 5, 2003 12:29PM

I totally love the coin, but I am in shock it got graded!

wingedliberty · September 5, 2003 12:29PM

Nice!!!!!!

FC57Coins · September 5, 2003 12:33PM

very very nice! - It's amazing how these 99.9% silvers tone!

pmh1nic · September 5, 2003 12:35PM

Nice color but evidence of collector mishandling in my book

.

Russ · September 5, 2003 12:37PM

Album target toned. I assume the reverse is white? That coin is a bonified rarity with that toning pattern.

They usually tone like this:

Or sometimes like this:

But to get a rainbow target is a rare event indeed!

Russ, NCNE

braddick · September 5, 2003 12:38PM

Very, very sweet. One in thousand will tone that wonderfully, if that.
Congratulations on a "Keeper", no doubt!

Peaceman · September 5, 2003 12:43PM

photoshop......lol

MacCoin · September 5, 2003 12:43PM

I wished my scaner was working. I have a gold obv and rainbow rev like the one Russ posted. It was fresh from the mint when I put it in the south side window two years ago.

MacCoin · September 5, 2003 12:46PM

sorry Morganluver
Very nice!!!! it looks like natural ablum toning to me.

Morganluver · September 5, 2003 12:50PM

Thanks for all the kind responses.

Russ, you're right, the rev. is white with just a little of the rainbow creeping over the rims. I too have never seen one tone quite like this one.

Photoshop? Believe it or not, this coin looks even brighter and more vivid in hand...nice try.

Blade · September 5, 2003 12:54PM

I did not look at the other responses befoer replying at the top. My uninfluenced thoughts:

That coin looks just like a chrome motorcycle pipe after you take a blow torch too it. I personally have never seen those colors on a silver coin before. Too even, not breaks in toning pattern. I've seen a coin doctor whose buffalo nickels look just like this. I'm surprised PCGS slabbed it.

Edited to add: After reading the thread, it looks like most people think that is real. I learn something new every day. Would love to see it in person.

mbcoin · September 5, 2003 1:07PM

Hey Richard Killer coin. You going to Lakeland and or the O town show next month?
Mike

Morganluver · September 5, 2003 1:25PM

Thanks Mike.

When is the Lakeland show? I'd like to go and you could see this baby in person. And what's the O town show?

BigAl · September 5, 2003 1:30PM

O Town = Orlando

Morganluver · September 5, 2003 1:41PM

Thanks Big Al. I always go to the FUN in Jan. but I thought Mike was talking about one sooner.?

doops · September 5, 2003 2:47PM

dang ! now that one came out very very good !
prime example of a $7 item and $10 slab fee of one when it is properly
dipped in jewel luster,rinsed well,placed in dansco album a yr+ and presto,a modern "monster"
in most who know the routine's eyes,its still a $7 coin in a $10 slab with about 50 bucks worth
of color. HOWEVER and having said that that dont mean some nut wouldnt pay $4 or 500 bux
or even more for it. it dont appear to have "pooled" any residue spots anywhere either,a definite bonus
and actually pcgs wont call these at as all it is is what 99% of all blast
white morgans,walkers,etc are. dipped coins where the surfaces have been "skimmed"
of that mint top micro-layer allowing for the chemicals in the dansco albums to do
their thing. most killer rim/periph toned morgans that were dipped 20,30,40,50 yrs ago
and put in any # of toning albums or pages became the stupid money coins they are today via
this precise and exact method. therefore there is no artificially applied toning,hence-it gets
slabbed. this is very old news,i'm suprised at how many collectors dont see the justification for them
not bagging them. it's a no harm,no foul thing that has been going on for decades on all kinds of coins.
it's just that now everyone is ruining their retirements because in 10 more years the common
news item this will have become amongst the general modern color coin self burials will be clearly
in mass production and on the market at every turn of every isle of every shop and show...
which hell they practically are now. betweenst the dealers who make these coins they start off in
dealer to dealer trade quite cheap. and theres a bigger fool and a sweeter sucker born every day.
the only real issue i have with it is i know exactly how easy is to get these eagles proof and bu and all these other silver proof and bu modern commems to look like that and slab out as ok,market acceptable then see these dealers rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrripping these folks wide open with these coins that any one of you on here could do for the cost of the coin,the dip and a year or more time with albums full and keep em stacked up in line waiting for the timer to go off.......NEXT BATCH ! send em in ! rrrrrrip !

kyleknap · September 5, 2003 3:14PM

MONSTER Richard!!!

islemangu · September 5, 2003 9:34PM

Another beautiful toned recently minted coin. I was not going to post anything here initially when I saw this thread as everything was positive and I didnt want my possibly warped feelings to bring negativity here. But Doops post sort of jived close to my own fears.

PCGS/NGC slabbing these really depresses me. I feel like the toned old classics I bleed, sweated and cried for in my collection that are also currently in pcgs/ngc slabs are sliding into the cheap, fast buck, world of the common.
Maybe I:m jealous...maybe in my gut I know there is no public will to change......maybe I am wrong that using albums to tone instead of holding coins is really AT...maybe I need a coin psychologist......Mr. Bear...Bear please use your comforting words to ease my troubles.

toners · September 5, 2003 11:39PM

awsome rainbow RIchard,
Allen

MadMonk · September 5, 2003 11:41PM

Dazzling!

Hadleydog · September 6, 2003 4:21AM

Whoa! Wicked, wicked coin. The color sequence and intensity give me no reason to believe it is not real. A very beautiful coin!

pmh1nic · September 6, 2003 5:16AM

I touched on this in my initial post to thise tread and what I'm going to say next is just my personal opinion expressing my personal bias. That type of toning on a 5 year old coin doesn't appeal to me. It shouts to me ATed meaning intentional hanlded and stored to produce that look in a relatively short period of time. Another reason it doesn't appeal to me is that the means to arrest toning is readily available so I expect coins that are only 5 or 10 years old to be essentially blast white unless they have been mishandled or intentionally handled/stored in such a way as to produce a particular look.

Again, the owner is off course free to do with his coins as he pleases. His right to do so isn't what I'm addressing. My opinion of the add value of the toning on the SAE is quite a bit lower (almost nil) when compared to the added value I place on the toning seen on this coin.

The toning on this coin is more meaningful and has great value to me because it represents something of the coins long history and journey through time, a time in which conditions were not conducive to preserving coins in pristine, blast white condition. On the other hand the SAE could have, with very little knowledge and effort, been preserved in its original blast white condition if the owner choose to do so.

Can I be absolutely certain the owner of the 1868 Half didn't intentionally doctor the coin to achieve the look that it has? Absolute certainty, no. A very high level of certainty, yes.

I'm not sure if I'm making sense to anybody else but me (won't be the first time

) and my comments aren't meant to bash the owner of this coin. As similiar as the toning may appear on these two coins I believe there is some differentiation that can be made regarding the added value the toning gives to each coin. That's my personal bias.

keets · September 6, 2003 5:46AM

hey Paul

if i understand you correctly, you seem to be saying that whatever the value of the SAE might be, it is almost totally a product of the color, while the seated half has intrinsic Numismatic value which is enhanced by the toning. i would agree.

you also seemed to be dismayed by intent, and again i would agree. whether there was help as in the doops monologue or otherwise, i couldn't know. however, i'm confused by a hobby that believes it's improper to intentionally enhance the toning of a coin in unnatural ways, yet thinks it's OK to knowingly place a coin in a damaging environment to achieve the same effect. that comes across as hypocritical at worst and splitting hairs at best.

all these issues seem to center on one thing, eye appeal and money. whoops!!! that's two things.

still, the Eagle is a sight to behold and i can only wonder whether i would have reached for my wallet if i'd have seen it first. my tendency is to pay for Numismatic value more than color, at least where a premium is concerned. your seated half will hold value there while the SAE would lose ground to a prettier coin which may be what, 6 months away??

all in all, very confusing for me. but still two very nice coins.

al h.

Morganluver · September 6, 2003 6:36AM

Hi all,

I want to thank everyone again for the comments, both positive and negative. While I agree with some of the negative commentary, particularly the preferential statements, I do not agree with the AT comments. I say this for a few reasons. One, as many of you may already know, these coins(series) tone very quickly because of the almost pure silver content(.999) and also tone, much of the time, quite differently than the regular 90% silver issues. I also believe that, because of the different texture of the SAEs surfaces, you will see much different coloration and toning patterns than you would normally see on 90% issues. Even the MS SAEs have much finer, almost sandblast, surfaces which tend to make the colors appear as if they are "floating" on the surface as opposed to being more deeply "embedded" like you would see on a Morgan whose surface texture is much coarser with deeper flow lines. You may also have noticed a similar "floating" appearance on many toned proof 90% silver issues for the same reason, glass-like surfaces with little or no flow lines.

While I will always appreciate and admire beautiful colors on older issues, I also admire and appreciate beautiful "real" colors on modern issues. Thanks again.

kamehameha00 · September 6, 2003 6:42AM

Nice coin morganluver!It deserves a 69 tho.....

pmh1nic · September 6, 2003 7:33AM

Morganluver

My statements don't change the fact that I think it's an attractive coin.

keets

I appreciate the Seated Half for it's absolute rarity, its place in numismatic history and the fact (or opinion with a high level of certainty

) that the toning it has could not be avoided altogether (given the time period in which it was minted and it's journey through a period of time without modern climate control) and that historical happenstance has result in its acquiring these very attractive colors. My opinion of eye appeal is not only based on what I see with my eyes but how my mind interprets what I see with my eyes.

MacCoin · September 7, 2003 12:19AM

doops
this is a ase you don't need to dip it to get that kind of toning. it like they are minted to tone.

Gemini · September 7, 2003 3:14AM

Just curious is there any toning on the reverse?

I must say I have never seen a coin with this combination of concentric very vivid day-glo colors in all the years I've been collecting which makes me feel a bit uneasy...

I would really like to see how this coin toned in time lapse photograhy...

Monster Rainbow SAE

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