What Do You Think Is Going To Happen With Carson City DMPL Morgans
stman
Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
Having read on here people thought they were undervalued, I've noticed the price of these double within the last year. Now that's for nice black and white frosty nice looking ones mind you. And of course most any coin that is very eye-appealing is going to cost more. The sheets have barely moved up in price but the dealers are basically all asking close to the same price for them which is about double sheet prices what I am seeing.
My main source for the CC DMPL Morgan's (which he has the best and biggest inventory around imo) says he's having to pay much more and I can understand that to a point.
Do you think collectors drove the price up so fast on these? Or do you think the Dealers just thought they were undervalued, and started driving the price up on their own? And said the heck with the sheets.
My main source for the CC DMPL Morgan's (which he has the best and biggest inventory around imo) says he's having to pay much more and I can understand that to a point.
Do you think collectors drove the price up so fast on these? Or do you think the Dealers just thought they were undervalued, and started driving the price up on their own? And said the heck with the sheets.
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
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Comments
<< <i>Someone did a pie chart and showed only 2% of the total Morgan production was CC dollars. I guess rarity is coming into play also. >>
Yes I saw that chart and found it to be of interest. Then add that DMPL will be even more scarce.
Ok, well my 'Real" question would be.... do folks feel they will just keep going up sooo fast as I've seen in the last year and still undervalued? Heck, just by this thread I might drive up the price.
It has me thinking about getting one now. Anyone have a DMPL 1878 CC for sale?
GSAGUY
BTW STMAN, if you're going to make the LB show, I'll try to bring a few 'cute' DMPL GSA's for you to see.
There are thousands of these DMPL CC pieces in existence in MS64DMPL and better, and while I would concede that many are just marginally DMPL coins, especially many of the NGC ones, they are not particularly rare pieces IMO. Again, it's dealers that manipulate prices. Fortunately for me, I've always liked DMPL CC's and still have over 60 DMPL CC coins, but the recent price increases don't really make me want to sell mine, as the REALLY nice ones are tough to find, and always have been.
dragon
And please don't take this as a slam on dealers as that's not my intent. Just the way I've seen it in the last year or so.
<< <i>Heck, just by this thread I might drive up the price. >>
I hope so. I have one listed on eBay right now.
Russ, NCNE
Now that DMPL/PL CC Morgans are very hot, I am starting to diversify my purchases into some other series which I feel are undervalued, such as Seated Liberty, Capped Bust Halves, and Draped Bust coins.
I also feel that nice original AU-58 pre-Civil War era U.S. coins are extremely undervalued. As a collector I enjoy beautiful original coins with full mint luster, either toned or white. I prefer AU-58 coins which have a hint of rub, all of the beauty -- sometimes better strike & luster than MS-60 & 61 coins, for a fraction of the price.
I always try to pick market niches for coins that I enjoy, when the market is focusing on something else. Also, there are not enough of the above mentioned coins for dealers to care about having a strong market influence on price.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
stman, Yes, all my posts are honest, sincere, and as candid as possible, as I have no other hidden agendas on posting here other than to share and gain knowledge with others that have a common interest in numismatics.
dragon
Although nobody really does good with a crystal ball.... do you feel the market for these CC DMPL Morgans is going to continue to go nuts?
It's unbelievable.
The CC dollars seem to form nearly a perfect niche for set completion: very popular, enough coins in existence to be promotable and buyable, very stunning...esp in dmpl, low mintage,
and a small enough # of coins so as not break your back like completing a full Morgan set, esp in dmpl. Yes there are 2 big boys in that set but that gives the millionaires something to compete against each other for. Those with shallower pockets can still have fun with the other dates and make a nice set. It's hard to beat the CC mystique: short, sweet, and popular.
roadrunner
I remember a ways back in the late 80's when David Hall had an offer where you paid money to receive his list of PCGS graded coins that were "guaranteed to double in price within 1 year" or your money back. One coin on this list one year was the 1924 Peace dollar in PCGS MS65. About 1 week after this list went public, I was in the office of a dealer I used to deal with quite often and low and behold, he whips out a full PCGS box of 1924 MS65 Peace dollars (20 coins), isn't that just an incredible coincedence?? Actually, this list became what is commonly known as a self fulfilling prophecy..........David Hall says that 1924 Peace dollars are going to double in price in 1 year, so of course everyone and their brother rushes out to buy as many as they can lay their hands on, and suddenly a once common coin that nobody really wanted is now a "hot" coin and going up in price every week on the greysheet because dealers are raising their bids every week in a panic to get them for clients as well as themselves. In this case, the price actually doubled in like 3 or 4 months due to the mad rush on 1924 Peace dollars, and David Hall fulfills his guaranty, keeps the 10's of thousands of dollars for his "magic pick", and some individuals including many dealers make a very nice short term profit trading PCGS MS65 1924 Peace dollars.
I mention the above story to illustrate exactly how thinly traded the coin market is, and how easily prices can be manipulated by a few influential people in a very short time frame, and how hype and perception of value can work in the coin industry IMO. As far as common date DMPL CC dollars, I have no clue how high they will go, but anytime coins that were once readily available and have pops in the hundreds or thousands suddenly disappear from the marketplace, and DOUBLE in value within a few months, that is not simply collector demand out of the blue IMO, nor a situation where they were grossly undervalued and just recently "discovered". Take a look at the PCGS and NGC pops. for just common date DMPL CC's in 64 or better alone, they exist in the thousands, in fact, just for the 3 commonest dates of 82-CC, 83-CC, and 84-CC, there are nearly 3600 of them graded by PCGS alone in 64 or better, and that's not even counting all the NGC ones.
dragon
Dragon, you speakth of a truth greater than yee knowth.
Last November I asked a major national dealer about DMPLs he laughed and said stay away, common coins which can and are heavily manipulated by dealers. I bought two from him anyway, one for my type set and one to "play" with and will be sold at Jan ANA. I may sell the type set one as well.
These coins as you say are so available when not hoarded it's amusing they are suddenly "rare" when thousands are out there.
Edited to add, the dealer also warned me about patterns. So now we have the pattern book that has come out and a registry in the making. Patterns heavily promoted in auctions. Can the hype be far behind? The pattern market is so thin you need an oxygen mask.
The 85-CC in MS-64 has a PCGS Population of 4547 with 2898 higher, the 1950-D shows 281/20. Certainly a number of nice CC's still exist in GSA holders and elsewhere, while most of the nice Franklins come from Mint Sets, a luxury not afforded the series in 1950.
Both are popular and widely collected, neither suffering from the general lack of interest that say, Half Dimes do. If you didn't care what type of coin you bought and were purely concerned about future price appreciation, which would you choose and why?
I'm not knocking CC's or pushing Franklins, just a comparison that I found interesting. One of many that can certianly be made.
I sure hope that is the case, but, I will tell you about my one limited experience with the "low pop" Morgan Dollar market (and I acknowledge I am not talking about a "CC" coin here). I bought a collection of coins earlier this year which included a lovely 1900(p) Morgan in PCGS-MS67 (super low pop (8/0) finest known coin and fully brilliant as well). As you know, I do not deal in the Morgan market, but, bought the coin as part of a much larger lot. Bottom line - I can not find a buyer at Grey Sheet raw bid for this PCGS-MS67 brilliant and lovely specimen!!! If this was a pop top silver Wash quarter or MS67 better date Buffalo nickel or myriad other coins, I would have sold it instantly at Grey Sheet bid+++++. How good can the market truly be on Morgans when a pop 8/0 turn of the century coin in a PCGS-MS67 holder can't command Grey Sheet bid?
I am not attacking Morgans here (I love the series and have a nice little raw collection), but, where is the true strength when a coin like this can't command Grey Sheet bid? I have to agree with Dragon on his comment on the "thin" market.
Wondercoin
data. Truly clean, black and white mirrored coins are and will remain desireable. There is no doubt
that marginal DM PL morgan CC will to some degree be subject to hype and manipulation, because the
number available make it possible. The cream of the crop will remain rare and difficult to find. At the
moment ,I do not see a lot pf DMPL Morgan CC dollars floating around, I guess that someone must be
sitting on 400 -500 of them, waiting for the right moment.
Camelot
Thanks for all the replies to the thread. I was very sincere asking opinions what folks thought about the prices lately for the CC DMPL Morgans. A few compared and brought up just the regular mintstate CC Morgans which I like as well, and there is big demand for those as well but not as much as the DMPL IMO.
Also, My concern on pricing in the future was NOT trying to see what was a good investment or seeing if I could make money on the coins. I am just a grumpy old collector wondering if I will be able to buy anymore if the market is going to be out of reach.
But I can say, there has and will always be demand for these type of coins and don't think one will go too wrong with them. I also feel once the prices are up on these type of coins they WON"T come back down. JMO.
<< <i>I had a 83CC in ms65DMPL that I bought last week and listed it on Ebay with a buy it now. Coin was sold within 24 hours. >>
Jason,
An 83CC, huh? How much did it sell for?
Russ, NCNE
it was a 84 (same greysheet value) and it sold for $820