"Intercept Shield Ruined my coins" , a supplemental thread. My opinion.

wingedliberty · August 30, 2003 7:02AM

I agree with Cladking. This thread scared the heck out me. I agree that new products tend to overstate their usefullness with hype and overmarketing.
My personal opinion is this, and I think this is the best protection you can have.

1. The PCGS or NGC slab.
2. The thick PCGS and NGC slab boxes (20 row).
3. I don't care how many Lucent /Bell lab chemists and how many NASA scientists tested the Intercept Shield, give me two layers of thick plastic between the actual slab and the slab box. I'll take that over hype anyday. Just my opinion.

jonesy · August 30, 2003 7:21AM

I'm with ya!!

Barry · August 30, 2003 7:23AM

Brian,
Like you, I'm skeptical of the Intercept Shield. While I don't think it damaged the coins, I question its usefulness in coin preservation. Think about it - we have lustrous silver and red copper coins that managed to make it through 100+ years without intercept shields. Now, all of a sudden, the coins are in danger?

What I do think may have damaged the coins is either the paper or the glue used in the album. I've heard many guys complain about those crappy, Made in China, albums fall apart and pages delaminate. Most of my (raw) coins are in Dansco albums, a few in Whitmans.

Typetone · August 30, 2003 7:28AM

I really like the toning you get get from Dansco albums and tend to use those. I have a set of IKEs in an intercept shield book with no problems yet.

Greg

sinin1 · August 30, 2003 7:29AM

ICG has intercept shield inserts as an option

does anyone know - does NGC now offer them as well?

wallstreetman · August 30, 2003 7:32AM

Just like taking a new drug, sometimes it ends up killing you!

Cam40 · August 30, 2003 7:53AM

Are the guys across the street getting this info? I wonder what all they are saying. Much the same as over here?

cherrypickincoin · August 30, 2003 7:54AM

I know not to use these now..I was strongly considering buying some too.

291fifth · August 30, 2003 7:59AM

<< ICG has intercept shield inserts as an option

does anyone know - does NGC now offer them as well? >>

My own feeling is that:

1. The intercept shield holders have not caught on.

2. I wouldn't want them anyway.

I'm not aware that NGC offers them and really don't care if they do. I have coins in NGC holders that are now about 15 years old. The coins appear to be in perfect shape. The same holds true for my PCGS and ANACS coins in older holders.

nwcs · August 30, 2003 8:24AM

ICG is the only one to use intercept. I think we need to have more than an anecdotal example before declaring a technology as overhyped. The science behind the technology appears to be quite good. And I have heard there is already a similar product made by another competitor where the "usability" of the lining is made more obvious. Intercept lining changes color as it runs its useful life. But it's only a few shades of difference.

I think we need a few more years to really tell how effective intercept can be at retarding unwanted corrosion.

Neil

cladking · August 30, 2003 8:26AM

It's too early to write these off. This could be a special situation or the
albums might have been damaged or contaminated. There should be
some more info on this and/or other products.

lordmarcovan · August 30, 2003 8:31AM

I switched from albums to slabs in 1998, after having haze headaches on the proof coins in my Dansco type set. I live on the seacoast, and there are a lot of paper mills here, plus plenty of sulphur in the groundwater. So this is not the best environment for red copper or coins with delicate surfaces. (A cleaned coin placed in the open air on a shelf in my house usually picks up gold toning within a week, and I do not smoke inside the house). My switch to slabs was as much for environmental protection as it was for grading concerns, if not a little more so. While slabs aren't always entirely air-tight, they're good enough for me. I've never used Intercept Shield products. I suppose if I had some of their boxes that slabs fit into, I might would probably use them. This is the first negative comment I have heard about them. It wouldn't stop me from using the slab-box-thingies, but in that case the coins are already in a slab and are not coming into direct contact with the Intercept stuff, anyway. When I use albums for raw coins, Dansco is fine by me, and other than the problem with proofs that I mentioned, I have no real complaints with them. I just generally avoid putting proofs into them (proof coins get slidemarks from albums pretty bad, anyway).

airplanenut · August 30, 2003 8:34AM

<< 3. I don't care how many Lucent /Bell lab chemists and how many NASA scientists tested the Intercept Shield, >>

Hey! My dad works at Bell Labs!

wingedliberty · August 30, 2003 8:41AM

Jeremy:
Just because your dad works for Lucent doesn't mean that the Intercept shield is superior to a double barrier of plastic vis a vis the slab and the secondary layer from the plastic slab box. I don't know what division of Lucent your dad works for , but its not numismatically relevant. I am sure the people who tested the Intercept Shield technology were not all collectors. Also, chemical reactions are not predictable and there is no way that they could have taken all the variables of climate and the random way materials react to say that the technology is as good as it is. My point is that I trust a double barrier of thick plastic more than I do a theory. No disrespect to your dad as none was implied.

airplanenut · August 30, 2003 8:52AM

That's true... it's not like he got any freebies for me

I should have added a "

" to the post

EVillageProwler · August 30, 2003 9:06AM

I should remind everyone that the Intercept Shield technology is designed to prevent the onset of toning from external material. But, if there already was surface matter on the coin at the time of encapsulation into the IS holder, then the technology would not prevent that.

This is similar to the typical PCGS and NGC holders in that the sonic seal is quite tight and should do an excellent job of protecting a pristine coin that has been entombed inside. However, if a nice looking coin actually has crud (that is invisible to the naked eye) on it, then it can damage the coin and the holder will not help.

The IS holder has one advantage over the PCGS and NGC holders: it also helps to neutralize the air that is within the plastic chamber. However, this still cannot neutralize any foreign substance that is already on the coin.

Remember that dip residue is frequently very hard to detect until after it starts to haze the coin...

EVP

EVillageProwler · August 30, 2003 9:08AM

Brian,

Your double plastic theory is insufficient for protecting coins if they already have foreign substance on the surface at the time of slabbing.

EVP

ms70 · August 30, 2003 9:32AM

The PCGS plastic boxes contain PVC as I was told by a PCGS employee. I called them once to specifically ask that question. I don't want
my coins surrounded by PVC. Also slab plastic is NOT so solid that it can stop anything. There are vapors that are harmful to coins that
can penetrate the slabs over time. Until they make a glass slab, there is the possibility that something harmful can reach a slabbed coin.

291fifth · August 30, 2003 10:11AM

<< The PCGS plastic boxes contain PVC as I was told by a PCGS employee. I called them once to specifically ask that question. I don't want
my coins surrounded by PVC. Also slab plastic is NOT so solid that it can stop anything. There are vapors that are harmful to coins that
can penetrate the slabs over time. Until they make a glass slab, there is the possibility that something harmful can reach a slabbed coin. >>

A PCGS representative should comment on this. The boxes look to me to be made of polystyrene plastic and, if so, would not have PVC. We need some factual information on this. Anybody KNOW?

wallstreetman · August 30, 2003 11:21AM

EVillage, So Intercept Shield doesnt neutralize chemicals? I wouldnt think it should matter whether the chemicals were already present or not!

airplanenut · August 30, 2003 11:25AM

<< EVillage, So Intercept Shield doesnt neutralize chemicals? I wouldnt think it should matter whether the chemicals were already present or not! >>

If the chemical is in the air, it can be neutralized. EVP is saying something is on the coin. For example, if you have a dot of PVC on the coin, it can grow, even if the air is neutralized. Such haze could be the result of dipping residue, which, unless it was neutralized, which IS doesn't do, will eventually cause what we see.

wallstreetman · August 30, 2003 11:31AM

I seriously doubt that the boxes would contain PVC, that would be pretty lame!

Coulport · August 30, 2003 11:35AM

So much for science, engineering and hype.

crito · August 30, 2003 11:51AM

I use PVC coin wallets and haven't had any problems. It's my understanding that it's the oil in PVC flips that traps the hydrogen chloride gas and causes the green corrosion most people call PVC contamination. I also believe in the Intercept Shield technology, as it's been tested extensively and not only nuetralizes sulphur gases but is also anti-static, preventing the coin from becoming magnetized and attracting particulate contaminates in the air. The problem is the paper IMHO. The pulping process creates high concentrations of lignin, which causes paper to decompose rapidly, releasing sulphur gas. The older the paper the less it will off-gas, which is why I've been buying old Whitman bookshelf albums lately.

SarasotaFrank · August 30, 2003 12:00PM

I worked at Bell Labs 28 years ago.

If those loony tunes designed this stuff, no wonder it doesn't work.

keets · August 30, 2003 12:47PM

the Intercept Shield technology is designed to nuetralize any harmful gas which passes through it. they recommend replacement after 10 years.

as to slabs, plastic is permeable. though it appears air and water tight, vapor/gas will pass through it. one of the products we're currently involved with at work is called "Amosorb" and it's a product of BP Amoco. it's use is very specific. it's rolled between two layers of plastic, PET, and prevents oxygen from entering the bottle and carbon dioxide from leaving much in the same manner as the Intercept technology. this stuff is processed under vacuum and packaged under dry nitrogen into a sealed aluminum bag inside a sealed plastic bag inside a sealed 55 gallon drum. it's use thus far has been limited, but you may have seen it in plastic beer bottles. for all the trouble, i believe they can still only guarantee a 60-90 day shelf life.

i'm in agreement with those who've speculated that there was most likely something on the coins before they were placed in the folder since this seems to be a unique or at least very limited problem. of course, i could be wrong. like i said in the other thread, give your coins a quick acetone rinse before placing them in any folder.

another thing to consider is how they were pushed into the holes. perhaps that contributed to the haze.

al h.

ms70 · August 30, 2003 9:22PM

<< I seriously doubt that the boxes would contain PVC, that would be pretty lame! >>

I couldn't believe it either! But that's what the girl told me. She put me on hold & went to ask someone who supposedly
knew the answer. After hearing that I just assumed the boxes were not meant for permanent storage.

Maybe we should put this question in the Q&A Forum for D.H. himself.

SDCollector · August 31, 2003 2:49AM

Doesn't PVC have to actually come in physical contact (touch the coin, not vapor contact) to cause damage?

"Intercept Shield Ruined my coins" , a supplemental thread. My opinion.

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&quot;Intercept Shield Ruined my coins&quot; , a supplemental thread. My opinion.

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"Intercept Shield Ruined my coins" , a supplemental thread. My opinion.