For Russ/Lori

spy88 · August 19, 2003 3:11PM

As you guys seem to be "on top" of things as far as cams, deep cams, etc., I have a question for you concerning frost. At what point is a coin considered to have frost as opposed to NOT having frost? I mean, I can see the difference between say, a 60 Jeff vs. say a 79 Jeff, but could you say a coin has frosted devices if there is ANY noticable difference between the raised parts of a coin and the mirrors?

LucyBop · August 19, 2003 4:37PM

I'm not Lori/Russ but I'll but in anyways....... And, Its a tough answer........ What you really need to do is look at coins designated cameo and dcam and coins that are not..... There are many coins that still have frost but yet not enough and week mirrors so they don't make the grade.

A brilliant proof is just that, brilliant in the fields and devices......... The color of the field will look like the device with no change in contrast...

LucyBop · August 19, 2003 4:38PM

If the noticeable difference between the raised device and the fields is white... yes, i would say its frost...... an indication of a earlier struck coin off of the dies from the mint...

Baley · August 19, 2003 6:37PM

oh, there's a difference, my friend!

Russ · August 20, 2003 3:23AM

There are actually a lot of coins that have "frost" that aren't cameos. The designation is based on the contrast of the devices against the fields, and frost is only one component of that. The devices can be technically frosty, but if there is no mirror depth, the coin doesn't make cameo. Frosty devices and moderate mirror depth makes cameo. Frosty devices and black hole mirror depth make deep cameo.

Take a look at this 1965 SMS Kennedy, for example:

The bust is certainly nice and frosty, but the fields lack depth, so there is very little contrast between the two. I would not consider it a cameo, and neither would PCGS. Another grading service did call it a cameo, though.

Russ, NCNE

Lori · August 20, 2003 3:26AM

Russ & Lucy are good people to answer this. I know squat about what is consider cameo and dcam. I go by my eye and what I think is cameo or dcam. Sometimes I luck out and sometimes I dont. I am a newbie collector and started almost a year ago. I am learning as I go and this forum is a GREAT place for info.

Lori

LucyBop · August 20, 2003 3:34AM

Here is a example I have... This 54 proof Frankie is a very nice pr68 hairline free coin. It does have frost and some slight mirrors on both the Obverse/Reverse........ but, not strong enough to warrant the cameo grade unless PCI is grading it, then, from what I have seen in PCI holders, this one would be a dcam.

anyways, this is a lovely coin and there are many like it in non-cameo designated holders.

LucyBop · August 20, 2003 3:43AM

A example of a brilliant proof with no frost, a way later strike from the dies........

The devices and the fields are the same with no mirror depth or contrast due to zero frost on this coin.

spy88 · August 20, 2003 4:12AM

Lucy, would you do me the favor of going to eBay and checking out my photos of some Frankies I have up for bid and see if you can tell by the pic what grade they might slab at and based on the pic, how much they might be worth? I think there are only two of them. Very much appreciated!!! eBay user---david4988

LucyBop · August 20, 2003 4:18AM

I didn't find any Franklins in your listings.

For Russ/Lori

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