Looking for info on St Gaudens.

JoshL · August 3, 2003 11:28AM

I am looking for some information. I want to purchase some St Gauden $20 Gold Coins. My budget is approximately $40,000.00

What I would like to know is...long term have these coins consistently increased in value? Long-Term meaning 10 to 20 years?

Are these coins considered solid investments as far as holding power...of their purchased value?

Does anyone have suggestions as to which dates have a better investment potential?

I am looking for dealers that have a good stock of PCGS St Gaudens...reputable dealers of course. Looking for MS64+ coins.

Any suggestions and help would be appreciated.

Thank You ahead of time

Placid · August 3, 2003 11:42AM

Most 64's are not considered investment grade saints. 66+ depending on the date and you could eat up your 40k on one or two coins.

Legend,Ellesmere would be good people to talk to about it.

More common saints go up and down price wise depending on the coin market and gold price.

Legend

Ellesmere

Bustman · August 3, 2003 11:48AM

Give Legend a ring for better date and grade saints!

MacCoin · August 3, 2003 11:58AM

hey I looked in the red book a VF 1907 high relief St Gaudens double Eagle is $4000.00 two years ago it was still $4000.00 but in 1969 it was only $475.00 I don't know what it booked for in 1983 but it would be fun to know.

BigE · August 3, 2003 12:00PM

Is Legend paying some kind of bird-dog fee or something, please LMK

-------BigE

Placid · August 3, 2003 12:04PM

There is a chart on ms gold here. But it is a mixture of different types not only saints.

Louis · August 3, 2003 12:07PM

First thing to do is educate yourself on what you plan to purchase. Secondly, I'm not sure I would buy coins if it was strictly for investment purposes and I would have to depend on this for future finances. I buy coins for enjoyment and hope it will be a good investment if I ever decide to sell, but it isn't something I depend on. Good luck.

RYK · August 3, 2003 12:10PM

There is no one better to teach you about collecting gold coins than Doug Winter.

Doug Winter

BigE · August 3, 2003 12:26PM

I disagree with most of the posts here because I am assuming that you want to put together a set. The more common grades buy in 65 64 or above, the harder grades buy them in the grade according to the amount you want to spend. You will never complete a set at 64+. Just a thought--------------BigE

RYK · August 3, 2003 12:31PM

I am no expert or even an enthusiast of Saints, but I do not know of a single contemporary book on the subject. While I know that there are some rare dates in the series, I tend to think of lower MS Saints (62-64) as common coins that are proxy for buying gold bullion that also give you some potential leverage in case gold prices really soar.

Just my two cents...

Trooper · August 3, 2003 12:42PM

Mac
The high relief 1907 VF-20 in the Red book in
1980 was $1,500
1881 was $3,250
1982 was $3,250
1991 was $3,500

1964 Blue book was $350 big ones in ex. fine
1969 Blue book was $425

Tom

MacCoin · August 3, 2003 12:48PM

thanx Trooper it don't look like classic gold is a good investment there are bonds that pay better than $650.00 over 20 years with $4000.00 to invest.

BigE · August 3, 2003 3:26PM

A set of Saints in PCGS 63 would maybe cost 500,000, you could probably mix up the grades and complete a set for 50k, I dont know if there is such a set------------------BigE

oreville · August 4, 2003 12:59AM

JoshL: First you need to define what you want to buy in St Gaudens $20 gold.

Are yoiu concerned strictly about "investing" in these coins?

How long do you want to hold them? Are they 1 year, 5 year, 10 year or a lifetime holdings to pass down to your family?

Are you a collector? Is there any collector interest in these coins at all, some or a lot?

$40,000 is quite frankly, not a lot for this series, depending on how you go about buying these coins. The rarer dates have done quite well such as the 1921 whereas other dates like the 1908 no motto have done very poorly due to the Wells Fargo hoard release a few years back.

You need to educate yourself on this series first before you go shooting your load on the $40,000!

In my opinion, there is no one more knowledgeable about gold than David Akers.

Just my opinion.

Louis · August 4, 2003 1:10AM

Also keep in mind that it is next to impossible to sell for the same price as you buy for, so theoretically you have lost a substantial percentage of your investment right off the bat. I don't try to discourage investing in coins, but do your homework first and make sure this is what you want to do.
Whatever your decision is I wish you luck.

jeffnpcb · August 4, 2003 1:14AM

Try Park Avenue Numismatics! He has a very good selection of 65 and 66 graded by PCGS and NGC!
Very good people to deal with and will offer recommendations of your selections!

JoshL · August 4, 2003 2:11AM

<< <i>JoshL: First you need to define what you want to buy in St Gaudens $20 gold.

Are yoiu concerned strictly about "investing" in these coins?

I AM LOOKING FOR THE COINS THAT I PURCHASE TO HOLD THEIR VALUE. IF THEY INCREASE THEN THAT IS A BONUS.

How long do you want to hold them? Are they 1 year, 5 year, 10 year or a lifetime holdings to pass down to your family?

I HAVE NO INTENTIONS ON SELLING THEM. I AM A COLLECTOR. WITH THAT SAID...IF THERE WERE SOME SORT OF EMERGENCY THIS WOULD BE THE FIRST COIN/S I WOULD SELL. THAT IS WHY I AM LOOKING FOR HOLDING VALUE.

Are you a collector? Is there any collector interest in these coins at all, some or a lot?

I LOVE MORGAN DOLLARS AND DEEP CAMEO COINS. THAT IS WHAT I COLLECT. I AM INTERESTED THOUGH IN THIS SERIES.

$40,000 is quite frankly, not a lot for this series, depending on how you go about buying these coins. The rarer dates have done quite well such as the 1921 whereas other dates like the 1908 no motto have done very poorly due to the Wells Fargo hoard release a few years back.

I WOULD BE HAPPY WITH ONE OR TWO COINS IF THEY WERE NICE COINS AND WOULD HOLD THEIR VALUE.

You need to educate yourself on this series first before you go shooting your load on the $40,000!

In my opinion, there is no one more knowledgeable about gold than David Akers.

DOES DAVID HAVE A WEB-SITE? I HAVE CHECKED OUT THE OTHER SITES THAT PEOPLE HAVE SUGGESTED AND I AM BOOKMARKING ALL OF THEM. I AM NOT IN A HURRY OR RUSH TO PURCHASE. I WILL BE DOING MY HOMEWORK OVER THE NEXT FEW WEEKS...MONTHS.

I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN KNOWING HOW TO GET IN CONTACT WITH MR. AKERS.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP. MUCH APPRECIATED.

Just my opinion. >>

SmallTownCoins · August 4, 2003 2:21AM

Buy Vintage PEZ... OH Sorry, wrong board..... heheheheheeeee

BillJones · August 4, 2003 2:33AM

I think that the 1907 High Relief St. Gaudens $20 gold is the most common very expensive coin in the world. Despite its mintage, there are probably more than 7,000 examples in existance. The last I looked PCGS and NGC had graded over 6,000 of them. Granted that those numbers have been inflated by crack-outs, but the coin is still pretty common given the number of pieces in off-brand holders.

I doubt that you can buy an MS-66 for $40K in this market. You will have to settle for an MS-65. My piece is only a PCGS MS-63, but it has gone up a couple thousand since I purhcased it less than 2 years ago.

Is the coin a good investment? Who can say. It's very common given the high price, but lots of people want one including a fair number of non-collectors who like art.

Whatever you do, buy the in a PCGS or NGC holder. Don't waste your time and money on the off-brand services. The coins are not as easy to resell, aften the grading is "optimistic."

theboz11 · August 4, 2003 3:01AM

Common Date $20 gold is vitually locked to the price of Gold, and placing that amount of money in just 1 or 2 high grade coins leaves you with too many eggs in one basket. If you are dead set on gold as an investment, buy KEY Date material. You will find that it is still fairly valued and has resisted Gold fluxuations for the last decade or two and held value quite nicely. Dan

oreville · August 6, 2003 12:10AM

JoshL: St. Gaudens are among the top 3 or 4 most desired coin design in all of numismatics. The demand for these coins are incredible. But you already know that.

The intense demand creates some decent liquidity even in most of the rarer dates.

By the way, the winner of the 1933 $20 that set the record price for any US coin entrusted no one else other than the same David Akers to put in the final bid and of course, hold the coin for publicity purposes.

David Akers has also written books on gold coins as well.

But I am always wary of the $20 St Gaudens series. Why?

There are numerous rumors that hoards of St Gaudens $20 still exist in European hands as many of the St. Gaudens and to a lesser extent $20 Liberties somehow "flew" to Europe during the 1920's and shortly before the US Ban on gold ownership.

There have been from time to time, dramatic collapses in certain rare dates in the St. Gaudens $20 series. Will this continue? I think so.

So what dates to buy? Personally, I think it could be a little bit of a gamble since we cannot be sure how much is still out there in foreign hands.

I agree with Bill Jones on the 1907 HR. The most common very expensive coin in the world. In this case, I do not suspect much more in the way of huge hoards floating around.

Perhaps, I am an alarmist.

Personally, if it were me and I had $40,000 to spend on this series it would be

(1) Several of coolest PCGS (or NGC) grading sets of all the grades from VF to MS-67 of several of the more common dates, but not the most common dates ...........or................

(2) As many high end MS-66's of different dates as you can humanely find. But the MS-66 have to be the best!!

(3) A combination of the above two which would be my favorite way to go.

Looking for info on St Gaudens.

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