Die Polishing lines on 83 CC Morgan

morganbarber · July 21, 2003 12:19PM

The 83-cc Morgan I received today has a ton of hairline marks on the reverse above the eagles head and wings, and beside both wings. It almost looks like the person who artificially frosted it had to scratch off overspray with a pin, except that I believe that the lines are raised and not incused. Are these die- polishing lines? The 83CC shown on Coinfacts.com appears to have similar marks above the eagle.

Russ · July 21, 2003 12:22PM

If they are raised, yes they are most likely die polish lines. Do they extend on to the devices, or exist only in the fields?

Russ, NCNE

Placid · July 21, 2003 12:24PM

Raised lines are usually from die polishing-scratches-cracks forming.
I do remember Russ had bought a pcgs coin that turned out to have artifical frosting added.

morganbarber · July 21, 2003 12:25PM

Fields only, Russ, but remember, he was trying to leave the thick frost on the devices.

Cam40 · July 21, 2003 12:25PM

Thats right. Those tiny raised lines are die polish lines and not the dreaded hair lines caused by wire-brushing.

To the newbie, these lines all look the same but they are two distinctly different phenominon(sp)

Placid · July 21, 2003 12:28PM

Forgot the reverse.

morganbarber · July 21, 2003 12:33PM

Placid, Nice coin. Thanks for that second pic. The coin in your picture appears to have the same marks above the eagle. Definately Die polish lines then?

Placid · July 21, 2003 12:37PM

Not mine those are the ones on coinfacts that you mentioned.
I thought I would save people from having to go search for it.
No idea other than it looks like a die chip or a scratch on the die above the eagles head to me.

gsaguy · July 21, 2003 12:40PM

MB,

I've owned a number of 83-CC Morgans with what I call a 'sunburst' pattern on the reverse. And yes, I believe these are die polishing marks.

GSAGUY

<<I do remember Russ had bought a pcgs coin that turned out to have artifical frosting added.>>

Placid,

I remember that coin that Russ bought but never did get a follow-up on the verdict. Was it actually an artifically frosted piece in a PCGS holder????

Wow!

GSAGUY

Placid · July 21, 2003 12:42PM

If I remember right yes it was doctored and Russ got money or something from pcgs for it.
Maybe Russ could verify my memory.

gsaguy · July 21, 2003 12:46PM

Placid,

It is the same coin you've posted, right? I remember it looked like a monster.

GSAGUY

Placid · July 21, 2003 12:48PM

<< <i>Placid,

It is the same coin you've posted, right? I remember it looked like a monster.

GSAGUY >>

The one Russ had he bought from Heritage and was a Kennedy half I belive.

Russ · July 21, 2003 12:52PM

It was an Accented Hair Kennedy graded PR67CAM by PCGS, and yes it was doctored to add the frost. PCGS stepped right up to the plate and compensated fair market value for the coin, which was actually more than I paid for it.

Russ, NCNE

stman · July 21, 2003 1:09PM

Morganbarber...as many on here have said, if the lines are raised they are indeed die-polish lines. Sounds like you may be still having a hard time telling the difference. Sometimes on smaller proof coins it can be very tough to tell. Just go ahead and pull the loupe out, get under a good light, and tilt the coin around to different angles, that is if you haven't done so already. They won't be raised a whole bunch, but once you see it you won't be unsure of yourself again. Now gawhead

put that loupe to that thing and tell us what you see.

RNCHSN · July 21, 2003 1:19PM

That one looks similar to a number of PCGS MS-64 Morgans I recently bought, down to the raised, triangular area just inside the right upper edge of the wreath. If I remember correctly, it should have a small die crack rising up from the eagle's right wing toward the space between the N in IN and the G in GOD in the motto. I think I can see it in the scan you posted. They did have strong polish marks in the field between the eagles head and right wing as well.

zenny · July 21, 2003 3:57PM

One of the best ways to determine that hairlines are actually die polishing lines is to check a point such as the "O" in of. If the lines go right up to the outer portion, continue through the "O" and come out the other side, you pretty much have the slam dunk diagnostic.

Since the polishing occurs on the high points of the dies, which are the fields, the devices are not touched and are left without the lines. This allows the lines to go right up to the device. When it's a cleaning line or just about anything occuring after the minting process, the high point is now the device. A cleaning will either produce lines that traverse the devices, or there will be a gap between the edge of the device and where brush or wire was next able to hit the field. They will never go right up to the device as the polish lines do.

z

Die Polishing lines on 83 CC Morgan

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