Is there a site for reporting stolen certified coins.

melikecoins · July 21, 2003 1:27PM

If not we need one.

Today someone in a parking lot offered me two $20 gold pieces and a $2.50 gold piece.
The two twenties where in PCGS holders.
And the 2 ½ was in a 2x2.
I know someone has had their gold stolen.

If we had a site to report such theft we could at least check to see what is stolen.
And may even help solve a crime against us.

Glen

I did not buy the pieces, and he only wanted $500 for the lot.
(I do not like gold) and it did not fell right.

ms70 · July 21, 2003 2:17PM

I've suggested this before- The PCGS STOLEN Coin Registry. Just for stolen slabs. I keep meaning to bring it up on Tuesdays
when David Hall is online, but I keep missing the chance. Feel free to do it in my place if you're around tomorrow night when
he's on.

I thought it would be very simple-

Send a copy of a police report that includes the slab# to PCGS & they could post it in a data base that could be searched by
slab#. Dealers could use it before buying slabs from unknown customers & collectors could use it as they see a need (like checking
a slab on eBay before bidding, etc.). I think it would be a VERY simple web-page addition to the PCGS Site that would require very
little maintenance once it's up & running.

Of course nothing stops anyone from cracking the slabs, but I doubt most theives would know to do that.

melikecoins · July 21, 2003 2:30PM

That's some good thought there ms70

Glen

ohbaby · July 21, 2003 2:34PM

Today someone in a parking lot offered me two $20 gold pieces and a $2.50 gold piece.

Did you get his phone number? Can I have it?

All kidding aside, how did he/she pick you out? Was this at a show?

A DB of stolen slabs? Nice idea but I doubt it would work well. With all the reholdering it would quickly be obsolete. Also what happens if someone buys a coin which checks clean/ok and the victim delayed reporting the stolen coins. A few years or many years later the discovery is made, who's coin is it?

You also assume many would not want to buy a hot item at a sale price.

Especially if they dont intend to sell for many years.

robertpr · July 21, 2003 2:36PM

A simpler solution would be to merge the information into their cert database. All that it would require would be an additional field added to their database. When a coin is verified using their cert verification form, the coin would come up as stolen. It could even show information regarding whom to contact with information, if the coin has been spotted in an auction, etc.

melikecoins · July 21, 2003 4:00PM

ohbaby

It occured at Kmart.

This guy did not even know what he had, let alone have plans to reholder it.
He said that the coin (the twenty) said twenty dollars on it and that it was old (1924), he was unaware that the coin was gold till I told him!

The only people that this kind of site could catch would be petty theives like this guy.
Anyone with knowledge would get away clean, but I think that it is better to be proactive and do something.

Glen

ms70 · July 21, 2003 4:49PM

<< <i>A DB of stolen slabs? Nice idea but I doubt it would work well. With all the reholdering it would quickly be obsolete. Also what happens if someone buys a coin which checks clean/ok and the victim delayed reporting the stolen coins. A few years or many years later the discovery is made, who's coin is it? >>

If the victim delays reporting it to the police, then shame on the victim! As far as late discoveries go, maybe there would have to be a
reasonable limitation on the length of time a coin is in the registry. (JUST and idea). Like a statute of limitations. In most states after a
specified period of time a thief can no longer be prosecuted, so maybe remove it from the system after that? (Again, JUST an idea). The
system isn't perfect, but it's a starting point and there hasn't been other suggestions (that I've seen posted) to combat the problem.
Reholdering is a non issue as the same serial number is used. Also the thief would have to go to a PCGS dealer, be a PCGS dealer, or be
a PCGS Collectors Club Member to send it in for their services. I think the common U.S. Postal employee thief (like the one that stole an
$800 registered package from me) would not join PCGS to attempt a crack-out and would rather sell it in Kmarts lot or pawn shop.

Again- The idea isn't perfected, but rather open to everyones suggestions to solve the logistical issues. I'm sure a reasonable system
could be put in place after lots of us put our heads together on it. I'm sure among all the members here & the PCGS staff we can come
up with something useful.

Edited to say: robertpr- That really is a simple solution! That would make it quite easy for everyone.

Placid · July 21, 2003 8:44PM

Great idea. I just hope people don't use to get back at people they don't like.

Example-Someone leaves me negative feedback on eBay. The person is selling a pcgs coin so I put the coins cert number in as stolen then report the person to eBay for selling reported stolen property.

itsnotjustme · July 21, 2003 9:15PM

Glen,
Did you immediately reported this guy to the local police so they could investigate? Maybe they had a recently reported coin theft.

dorkkarl · July 21, 2003 10:20PM

terrible idea. how do you know that the guy offering the coins to you is the 1 who stole 'em? & if he is not, the DB would incriminate an honest victim. it's the same problem that occurs w/ genetic evidence. if you come to rely on that kind of evidence, ie. it replaces real detective work, it becomes so much easier for clever crooks to plant damning evidence.

i do not like the idea at all (though i don't claim to have a better sol'n either)

K S

k10 · July 21, 2003 11:06PM

Because most slabbed coins have a unique serial number, they actually can be entered into NCIC (the national database used by law enforcement) when they are reported stolen. This can later be checked if a coin appears suspect, such as when offered for sale at a pawn shop. This is not done as often as it should be, and a separate registry of stolen coins would be a great idea at each company that slabbed the coin.

If you should have the misfortune of having a slabbed coin stolen, please make sure to mention to the law enforcement officer who takes the report that it has a unique number, and request that the stolen item(s) be entered into NCIC as stolen. Not a guarantee that the item will ever turn back up, but it is better than nothing. You would be surprised at the number of stolen guns that show up years later and miles away.
Sean

Trime · July 21, 2003 11:20PM

I asumed that all coin delaers (like Pawn brokers) and auction houses receive a list of stolen Numismatic items from a central police source. If not then such a system should be developed . For those that fall outside these categories, a list could be posted on this or some alternative web site.
While this would not solve the problem of identifying generic goods, it would identify unusual pieces and would identify groups of goods when presented. Suspicious coins offered for sale would result in notification of the police.
The problem with discovering criminals is that it interferes with commerce. Dealers and collectors may only care if the goods that were stolen were theirs. Why pass up a cheap item which can be sold for a nice profit. Why worry about someones loss when it means you will have the inconvenience and time loss of filing reports. Thus ordinary citizens are the co-conspirators of the theives. That is the way it has been. If you want to change this you have to care.

ms70 · July 22, 2003 2:42AM

<< <i>terrible idea. how do you know that the guy offering the coins to you is the 1 who stole 'em? & if he is not, the DB would incriminate an honest victim. it's the same problem that occurs w/ genetic evidence. if you come to rely on that kind of evidence, ie. it replaces real detective work, it becomes so much easier for clever crooks to plant damning evidence.

i do not like the idea at all (though i don't claim to have a better sol'n either)

K S >>

How would the registry incriminate anyone? It's just telling you the slab is reported stolen. If anyone's incriminated it's because YOU
incriminated them. This is just a starting point for the detective work to begin. Besides, at this moment there are no detectives working
on the average stolen coin case unless there's a lead or the dollar amount that was lost is astronomical.

NCIC is only good if the police check a coin through it. There's no public access to NCIC but when reported it is a good idea to make
sure it was entered into that system. We need a data base that we can use ourselves so we can alert the police to surfacing coins.
Again- THE POLICE ARE NOT ACTIVELY WORKING ON A STOLEN COIN CASE UNLESS THEY ARE HUGE $$$ AMOUNTS OR HAVE
SOME SORT OF LEAD IN THE CASE. WHY NOT HELP THEM?

*** INSURANCE *** Buy it! It is the best solution to a stolen coin. A registry would help us, and help us alert the police a stolen coin has
surfaced. They can start the detective work from that point. We should be a little proactive in protecting our own assets. I would think the
unknowing seller of a stolen coin would be more than happy to help track down the thief that originally stole it.

Let's clear things up here: Such a registry ONLY TELLS YOU A SLAB HAS BEEN REPORTED STOLEN & THERE IS A POLICE REPORT
ABOUT IT. PERIOD. END OF STORY. No one's incriminated, the coin police aren't coming, etc, etc. What we do with the information is our
responsibility and we should be responsible about it. PCGS would assume NO ROLE other than alerting us to stolen slabs with police reports
backing them.

Whether or not a registry is created, there will still be lots of stolen slabs out there that no one is doing anything about. We can roll over
and play dead or try to do a little something about it.

ms70 · July 22, 2003 4:36AM

btt

spy88 · July 22, 2003 4:43AM

This is all well and good, excpt that PCGS wants no part in third party disputes involving their products. Just got off the phone to one of their customer support people asking about how to get the word out to PCGS affiliated stoes concerning my lost/stolen from the mail 1972 PR69DC Jefferson bought on eBay. One of only 35 and there is nothing they can/will do to help. We definitely need SOMETHING to help alleviate this problem as it is now up to the individual only to do what they can on their own to find their property.

k10 · July 22, 2003 4:44AM

ms70- You are pretty much right on the money. Most property crimes without leads get shuffled to the bottom of the pack. And it does help if one who is a victim takes an active role in "keeping on the lookout" for their missing stuff, so a stolen coin registry would be beneficial to everyone, I think.
On a personal note, thanks for the edit.
Sean

MyWorldCoinTypeSet · July 23, 2003 5:14AM

Great idea.

Russ · July 23, 2003 5:17AM

<< <i>This is all well and good, excpt that PCGS wants no part in third party disputes involving their products. >>

David Hall disagrees:

<< <i>I think this is a fantastic idea...Thanks, we'll get it done sometime in the near future...David >>

In response to MS70's Q&A question.

Russ, NCNE

Is there a site for reporting stolen certified coins.

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