Monster? or Not a Monster? Let the true market speak!

jadecoin · July 17, 2003 12:38AM

First, let me preface by saying that I have no complaints at all about buying THIS coin. I picked it up from a forum member who was selling it for another forum member (long story). I was given the opportunity to pick through a large lot of toned coins (dollars, etc), and picked out the one I liked best. No complaint about the price I paid ($100) either. I wasn't coerced in any way into buying this coin, and based on the wild prices being paid right now, I thought it was fair value.

Here's what I want to discuss though. Seems like the "monster tone" and "rainbow" dollars are awfully overrated right now. I have seen many so-called "monsters" that looked to me like just "nice" coins, above average for sure, but nothing all that "monstrous". Seems like if you don't hype it up to extremes, the coins sell closer to their true value, which is not much premium above "average"!

This coin was perfectly graded by ANACS, a solid MS-64 in anybody's holder. The image provides an excellent representation. Note that the it brought just $41 on ebay, which I think is a fair market representative. That's a couple bucks over grey-sheet bid! My loss is over $60 (which again, I'm not complaining about, as I had this in mind for a test anyhow). This is cheap education, in my book.

Which scenario do you think is most true?
[1] I did a poor job of marketing this coin. Should have advertised it as a "monster", certified, shot-65, etc. etc.
[2] The coin is actually ugly. I should have passed.
[3] The market is highly over-rated on toned coins.
[4] The ANACS slab killed it. Had it been PCGS, I could have retired on the profits.
[5] Ebay bites.

Interesting to note that the high-bidder practically tripped over himself in paying for the coin - just about the fastest payment I've ever received! I think that's some indication that he thinks he stole this puppy, and can't wait to get it.

Just curious as to what you all think. I for one greatly dislike over-hyped coins, and we believe our ebay descriptions to be conservative. Could you please help us out, and let us know where we went wrong? thanks.

Newkid · July 17, 2003 12:47AM

The coin is by no means a MONSTER in anyones book but does have a
little eye appeal. Only worth a small premium of maybe 10% IMO.

paigowjohnny · July 17, 2003 12:49AM

<< <i>I think that's some indication that he thinks he stole this puppy, and can't wait to get it. >>

You answered your own question. I think you just had a bad ebay day. I don't know if I'd pay $100, but I've certainly paid more than $41 for lesser. It is a pretty coin, but then again rather a common date for toners it seems.

braddick · July 17, 2003 12:57AM

It appears the Market is running smoothly and your Morgan demonstrates that. It's a $40.00 Morgan give or take in anyone's holder- you simply overpaid. Hyping it up on eBay but still including the photo you did would not have brought you much more, if anything.

KlectorKid · July 17, 2003 1:02AM

Well first if they dont both to click on the pic than they cant see the rainbows so maybe a bigger pic. And Its not the most stunning coin on the market although it is quite attractive in my opinion. And than i have to agree with PJ over there and say it just wasnt your day.

JeffinMich · July 17, 2003 1:06AM

I would say primarily scenario 1, not because you didn't stretch the truth and claim it was a monster and a shot 65, but because your auction title probably kept the coin off most of the toners radars screens. Instead of downplaying the toning, you could have said something positive like "beautiful rim toning" that would have brought more views and bid traffic. As for the true value, who really knows with toned coins..they seem to be all over the map.

zenny · July 17, 2003 1:19AM

I've been sick all week, and surfing the net far more than usual. I remember seeing this listing and thinking about checking it out, but passing. So, I was obviously intrigued by the title, and perhaps the headache was too much right then, who knows - I do remember seeing the item and it made me pause, I just didn't check it out...

With respect to "where did you go wrong," i think there's a little bit of truth to every one of your possibilities.

1. Marketing helps. The initial photo of the coin is mighty small, you have to request a blow up to even get a vague idea of the non-monsterishness of the coin. The auction copy, with the cute colored letters, probably should have been far in the background, with a decent sized photo of the coin immediately apparent upon the auction page's opening. Surfing is just that, surfing. Travelling fast through the internet with little time to stop and read without a real good reason. I don't believe the auction title was necessarily the deal killer for you, but downplaying what you've got for sale has got to be considered "risky" at best.

I think it's important to realize just how quickly people move through the world at this point in time. We are used to things happening at the speed of light. There is a popular post up right now about how annoying it is to pay PCGS 100 bucks for one day service when they don't enter your coin in the system as soon as you believe they should. My point is when I'm surfing, which is what I've been doing this week, I want to know if what I'm looking at is going to hold my interest immediately. Even if I'd opened your auction, the fact that the photo was so small and the text so cumbersome may have chased me right out of there anyway. (All this, and I'm what might be called "a reader.")

2. I agree that the coin looks like a nice, original example of an extremely common date coin. Ugly, no, should have passed, if you learn something, the sixty bucks could have been very well spent.

In fact, I am learning a lot from your experience, so thanks. Really.

3. The market is the market. Flash sells, sex sells, mighty mighty color on extremely common date coins sells. I think it's obvious that whoever went the distance to check out the coin, (and it took some serious work to get to the auction and then to see an adequate photo of the coin), didn't feel the color was enough to warrant particularly strong bidding. Also, please realize that there are many auctions coming up within the next few weeks that may have people watching their expenditures a little more carefully right now. Timing may not be, as they say, everything, but good timing is better than bad timing.

4. The Anacs slab may have some impact on pricepoints, but when there is monster color, there is monster money, no matter whose slab holds the goods. I for one don't punch in "PCGS" and search that way, and I don't know how many people do.

5. We all have our gripes with Ebay. Nothing is perfect, and although I've really never had a serious problem with an Ebay transaction, I think it is, pretty much, the best vehicle out there right now for getting a product in front of the most faces.

Thanks for the post. It was a great benefit to see, in retrospect, all the things you may have done wrong, and it was good to go through the process of figuring out just what may have helped, without going to extremes, just simply "doing the right thing."

z

edited to add: also with respect to timing, the auction ended at 12:45 in the afternoon here in sunny california. If I hadn't been sick this week I never, in a hundred years, would have seen this item. I believe the best time to end an auction is late afternoon pacific, early evening atlantic, to get the biggest viewership. someone can correct me if I'm remembering this wrong.

Dog97 · July 17, 2003 1:24AM

The bidders probably fell asleep while reading the long winded rambling description & missed bidding.
It didn't bring any monster price because even though it's not an ugly coin, there's nothing special about it to warrant any kind of prem. If it had complete peripheral tone making it a target or bullseye that would have made a difference but 1885-Os with random color are a dime a doz. The ANACS holder certianly didn't help it any and a PCGS or NGC holder MIGHT have made it sell for $10 more but again these are common and sell for about the same in any holder. Even though it got 17 bids there were only 3 people that had any real intererst in owning it.
Instead of telling bidders what it's NOT, ANACS-64 1885-O Morgan, NOT a monster! you should concentrate on what it is ANACS-64 1885-O Morgan, Attractive Tone, FREE SHIPPING!! but I think it did as well as could be expected like it was.

jbsteven · July 17, 2003 1:43AM

I agree with Dog about always in selling coins I try and list the good points of the coin. positive thoughts bring positive feelings instead of negatives about the coin.

my experience with ANACS slabs is that they bring less money than PCGS then NGC.

to me the coin is a $75-$85 retail coin.

pmh1nic · July 17, 2003 1:48AM

There is so much going on in this scenerio that in my opinion it's impossible to make any definitive statement. How much shopping did you want to do? How much is your time worth? When you're bidding at auction the market is the market at the moment and the value of any particular coin can vary widely depending on who else is bidding and their valuation of the coin based on their experience and the depth of their pockets.

Buying coins is in some respects like buying a computer. There is always someone out there with a better price, the relationship between price and performace is always changing and the strength of the market fluctuates.

If the questions is could you have found a similiar coin being sold for less money the answer is most like yes. On the other hand you like the coin, I'm guessing you could well afford the price and although the price difference might be 50% it's also only $50 ~ $60. In most cases if you kept looking long enough you could have gotten a better value. Then again you now have the coin in your hand to enjoy.

CarlWohlforth · July 17, 2003 1:50AM

Agreed with Dog and JB. No need to mention what it is not.

Also I would have used a larger photo of both sides. While it does say "click for a larger image" words get lost when there are so many of them

Even with those changes I'm not sure the coin would bring $100 on eBay...

dorkkarl · July 17, 2003 4:11AM

maybe the coin just plain sucks. in fact that coin DOES suck. i'd say you screwed up when you bought it

K S

CarlWohlforth · July 17, 2003 4:49AM

KS - maybe the coin looks much better in person?

dorkkarl · July 17, 2003 5:10AM

hey carl, that may be, for that matter, i see that the jade-boys didn't put up the usual disclaimer "looks much better in person blah-blah-blah". but the point is, jadecoin claims to specialize in pre-civil-war coins, so why the he11 would you buy a crappy-butt morgan (ie. "common", just like a billion other morgans) which is totally outside your specialty field? toning or no toning, that coin is, to be blunt, AVERAGE. they're looking for an answer to why they're auction sucked, & the answer is simple: stick to coins you like (& know), & you won't over pay for crap like that.

sounds like sour grapes on the part of the jade-boys to me.

K S

ElectricEye · July 17, 2003 6:16AM

<< <i>
[1] I did a poor job of marketing this coin. Should have advertised it as a "monster", certified, shot-65, etc. etc.
[2] The coin is actually ugly. I should have passed.
[3] The market is highly over-rated on toned coins.
[4] The ANACS slab killed it. Had it been PCGS, I could have retired on the profits.
[5] Ebay bites.
>>

IMHO, a combination of 1,3,4,5... the initial pic could have been bigger and brighter. An NGC or PCGS holder could have been beneficial. The tone market is fickle. EBay does suck but is a necessary evil (until someone with a huge marketing plan and bankroll come along).

lordmarcovan · July 17, 2003 6:57AM

I think that coin is more attractive than a lot of the "monsters" out there. It has the look I prefer in colored coins: not too overbearing, nice pastels, and evenly distributed peripheral colors. Beautiful.

I think you should have put the bigger picture right there in the listing, rather than the "click to enlarge" thumbnail, but that's not really a "mistake" in marketing. Sometimes the chips just fall short of the mark. Win some, lose some. No amount of hype would have brought more money.

If I had to pick one of the options you mentioned, I'd go with #3 the most: the market in toned coins is pretty overrated at the moment. Maybe you paid too much for the coin yourself. Not that I blame you; it was a pretty thing, and certainly should have fetched more than $41. I wouldn't have paid $100+ for it, though.

Monster? or Not a Monster? Let the true market speak!

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