PCGS grading HARD on Lincoln's. please let me know what u all think

pow012000 · July 16, 2003 9:03AM

The last two orders that i sent in, got graded really hard by PCGS, has there standards change with the new graders or what do u all think.. thank you

merz2 · July 16, 2003 10:37AM

I think you got your answer.

DMWJR · July 16, 2003 11:03AM

uh . . . that would be an affirmative.

I have two very nice NGC Proof Lincolns right here, that I will not send in, because I already know there is no chance now in their eyes. I wish they would change the slab inserts again, so I can distinguish coins that have been graded recently.

dpoole · July 16, 2003 11:05AM

PCGS grading HARD on Lincoln's. please let me know what u all think

Yes, indeedy.

cherrypickincoin · July 16, 2003 4:11PM

They are very strict on Lincolns at the moment because of the overwhelming demand for them. Some issues have gone up substantially in the last year alone.

You should remember that for mint state Lincolns, PCGS takes the O in One Cent into account. If the O on your Lincoln is weak, you may not get the grade you desire and as such, you may be better off submitting the piece elsewhere in the present market.

pow012000 · July 16, 2003 10:03PM

What else do they look at besides the "O"on the cent that makes it a MS66 or 67...or even an 68???? Thank you very much for your comments David

wingedliberty · July 16, 2003 10:12PM

You are 100% correct. PCGS is by far the strictest on Lincolns by a large factor, but then again, PCGS Lincolns bring significantly more $$.

Brian.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · July 16, 2003 10:15PM

Quit wining guys !!!

Gerry · July 16, 2003 10:45PM

Here's another poll we could conduct: What did Stewart mean:

Quit wining = Stop providing or entertaining with wine, or

Quit winning = Stop achieving success in an effort, or

Quit whining = Stop complaining or protesting in a childish fashion?

I vote for all three.

tjkillian · July 16, 2003 11:24PM

I have only a few Lincolns in PCGS holders as I am more of type guy and Indian Cent guy, but the few that I have I feel a overgraded. My MS-65 Red Indians blow away all of my MS-66 Red Lincolns. I hope they are more strict today.

About Stewart: I vote for quit winning and making all those high-grade Lincolns as he wants all the best Lincolns for himself.

Tom

tincup · July 17, 2003 12:35AM

This was a question that I wanted to ask also!!! I don't know if the original question was in reference to 'modern' Lincolns, or older ones. I recently purchased three PCGS MS64 RB early Lincolns, a 1925-D, a 1926-D, and an 1918-D. I sure don't understand what standards PCGS uses; I could not find any marks on 2 of these coins, and I thought they were very well struck also. And the color looked full red!! If these could not make a 65 grade..... I sure would like to see what would! or a 66! What does it take to get a 65 grade??

I'm considering breaking out the coins and submitting to NGC to try for the MS65 and/or red designation. Anyone else have good results doing this?

jonesy · July 17, 2003 12:45AM

Great!! I've got ten in for grading right now!!

clackamas · July 17, 2003 3:05AM

Tincup, for RB coins to make "GEM" 65 you need close to RD color and an above average strike. Thos dates are tough to find with a good strike.

>>>What else do they look at besides the "O"on the cent that makes it a MS66 or 67...or even an 68???? Thank you very much for your comments David

for MS66 look for coins with a perfect face and VERY clean fields, for MS67 the fields must be perfect and you need something extra like a glow, forget about MS68 it won't happen regardless if you had a coin that was MS70, it won't go 68. The "O" in "ONE" goes hand in hand with the shoulder. I have not seen this matter with MS66 coins much as long as the coins are "as struck".

clackamas · July 18, 2003 2:47PM

Good results in this climate - it takes something special to make 67. When I lived in nothern CA, I would gold pan on the weekends, I once asked a shop owner what to look for when gold panning. His advice was "If you think its gold, its not. When you see gold you know it." I guess this could apply to MS67 Wheat lincoln today. Yes there are dogs in older holders but if you want to play you have to find that special coin. I would suggest sending all submission under the $30 15 day service level. When you start paying $30 each, and get something like 20+ coins you really start to cull the bad ones out before PCGS does it for you.

1 60103916 1941 1C MS67RD
1 60103917 1941 1C MS66RD
1 60103918 1941 1C MS66RD
1 60103919 1941 1C MS67RD
1 60103920 1941 1C MS66RD
2 60103921 1941-S 1C MS66RD
3 60103922 1942-S 1C MS67RD
4 60103923 1942 1C MS67RD
5 60103924 1942-D 1C MS66RD
6 60103925 1943 1C MS66
6 60103926 1943 1C MS66
7 60103927 1944 1C MS66RD
8 60103928 1944-D 1C MS67RD
9 60103929 1945 1C MS66RD
9 60103930 1945 1C MS67RD
9 60103931 1945 1C MS66RD
10 60103932 1945-D 1C MS67RD
10 60103933 1945-D 1C MS67RD
11 60103934 1946-D 1C MS66RD
12 60103935 1947 1C MS66RD
13 60103936 1947-D 1C MS66RD
13 60103937 1947-D 1C MS66RD
14 60103938 1949-D 1C MS66RD
14 60103939 1949-D 1C MS66RD
14 60103940 1949-D 1C MS66RD
15 60103941 1958 1C MS67RD
16 60103942 1946 1C MS66RD

Date Received: 06/04/2003
Date Shipped: No Date Specified

jonesy · August 8, 2003 11:14PM

Look at it like this,
1946D
PCGS MS67RD = 97
NGC MS67RD = 355

pow012000 · August 9, 2003 12:46AM

Make that three orders as of yesterday.....Maybe im just in a slump!!!!!! well i have one more in right now 18 coins, and if over 70 % of them dont come back MS67 , that would SUCK and tell me that there just to tuff right now and ill need to wait....and if less than 40% are not MS67,, then im off to never send in coins for grading for a long time!!!!!!
AWWWWWWWWW thanks for letting me vent......

topstuf · August 9, 2003 12:56AM

Watch for trends to stricter grades. Last time it signalled the biggest drop in coin prices in history.

Don't change the prices, tighten (falsify, change, adjust) the grading.

If a 1980 MS65 had remained a 65 with the cert services, the grey sheet would have had to print headlines of the great drop in prices. As it was, with the grading just raised to impossible criteria, the market "appeared" to stay strong even though thousands of collectors lost their arses.

pow012000 · August 9, 2003 2:25AM

thanks topstuf...good thought to think about..

DCAMFranklin · August 9, 2003 2:32AM

Quit whining = You are all a bunch of Ebay pimps and whores.

mdwoods · August 9, 2003 2:57AM

What else do they look at besides the "O"on the cent that makes it a MS66 or 67...or even an 68???? Thank you very much for your comments David

For a MS68 you need that mint frostiness and a nearly perfect coin with no specks and superb luster. A 67 can have a little variation in color as long as it is not too dramatic. You might see a small hit somewhere, but not in a focal area. A lot of nicer 67s have mint frost on them. Luster should also be excellent. A MS66 is less lustrous, with a couple small hits, shouldn't have any specks except maybe real tiny, in my opinion, but some do. The luster should still be very nice. Luster is the most important thing, then lack of hits, then strike. A MS68 needs to be superb in all 3 areas.

rd5425 · August 9, 2003 2:58AM

are they grading tough on ms lincolns or do you think they are also grading tough on early proof lincolns as well?

ER · August 9, 2003 3:03AM

"HARD on Lincoln". Mint error?

Just couldn't help it, guys.

RELLA · August 9, 2003 3:30AM

I think they are actually being reasonable right now...still not giving any gifts but shooting down far fewer deserving coins. This is only for MS Lincolns. If you think I am nuts saying this ask clackamas how many MS67RDs he thinks he would have made from his submission 6-12 months ago.

RELLA

mnmcoin · August 9, 2003 3:41AM

I think it is just the market. Lincolns are just about as hot as anything, so that just make them grade a little more conservative. I haven't seen much change in the last year or year and a half...that is when they really tightened up. I am getting more mixed results. My last Lincoln submission I was able to make a 55D in 67RD but this was an easy 67RD...more like a 67.7 or .8 real hard for them not to 67RD it. I had another one that looked like a 67RD, very similar to the above coin that made 67 but it had a very minute tick on the nose, that was only noticable at a certain angle and the 66 it. Any other date besides 55d or 46-54p and it would be a 67. Also they bodybagged a awesome 1917 S (that is a solid 65RD) I cracked from one of their 64RD holders for questionable color. I feel it is a superb original coin with very pretty red and slight purplish color to it.

All in all, I think they are still about the same they have been for a year or so, but that is still about three quarters to a full point away. Just adjust your standard and move on. That is what I had to do.

morris <><

Datentype · August 9, 2003 3:55AM

They have just tightened for several denominations from my angle. I had some real good luck 2 months ago on grades and they drew me in at the 800 coin level and now 2 months later they are grading just about everything down a grade (from the 800 coins) even though the coins are from the same hoards. This is PCGS's way of telling us they are too busy and they will not be a pushover in the near future.

David, if you feel strong about the coins being undergraded, just hold onto them and resubmit at another time. Probably a crack out thing. I do this at a very, very high success rate.

pow012000 · August 9, 2003 4:25AM

Mark, True True....will have to wait and see what this next bunch brings....

jonesy · August 9, 2003 5:10AM

LINE # CERT # COIN DATE DENOMINATION VARIETY GRADE
1 21296099 1946-D 1C MS67RD Yes!!
1 21296100 1946-D 1C Damage Huh??
1 21296101 1946-D 1C MS66RD Okay
1 21296102 1946-D 1C MS66RD Okay
2 21296103 1945-S 1C MS65RD
2 21296104 1945-S 1C MS65RD
3 21296105 1949-S 1C MS65RD
3 21296106 1949-S 1C MS66RD Okay
4 21296107 1938-D/D 5C Buffalo MS64 Came from NGC MS66 Slab - Submitted Raw

This is what I got back a couple of weeks ago!!

JustMakesCents · August 9, 2003 6:29AM

At least they weren't this hard on you...

1 21315554 1915 1C Artificial Color
2 21315555 1917 1C Cleaning
3 21315556 1919-D 1C Cleaning
4 21315557 1918-D 1C Artificial Color

Date Received: 07/17/2003
Date Shipped: 08/07/2003

Good thing these were CC submissions. The 15-P is an easy 66, best I have seen and a darn good coloring job also. The 17-P and 19-D are somewhat surprising, didn't see those BB coming. Both are 65's. I had a feeling about the 18-D after I picked it up in Long Beach. It is also easily a 65. Oh well, time to find someone who likes nice-looking unslabbed Lincolns.

Jeff

DMWJR · August 9, 2003 11:49AM

Mark, just let me know when the next "good" period for submission is!!!!

pow012000 · August 9, 2003 12:45PM

Yea let me know also

Datentype · August 9, 2003 1:28PM

Doug and David, I will definitely let you know. I spend more time strategizing and setting up coins than anything else these days. you have to sell your coins to them to get the grades!

pow012000 · August 12, 2003 12:28AM

has anyone received any new orders back on lincolns,,,what r the grades??

grip · August 12, 2003 1:52AM

I just received a small order back,sent in 16 coins 55-S's and 54-S's..From them I made five 7's.
A few of those sevens could well been 8.
I still have approx,120 still pending grading.I have said this before,the coin has to be almost an 8 to get a 7

.Al

dorkkarl · August 13, 2003 3:24AM

were the coins for your collection? if so, why would you bother sending them in to pcgs?

K S

PCGS grading HARD on Lincoln's. please let me know what u all think

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