1893-S Morgan Silver Dollar

askjaywalker752 · July 11, 2003 10:23AM

Has been in circulation - good condition, just discoloration. Any idea of its value?

coinkat · July 11, 2003 10:26AM

Can you add a scan of the coin?

Russ · July 11, 2003 10:31AM

Particularly a closeup of the mintmark. If genuine, it is valuable in any condition.

Russ, NCNE

askjaywalker752 · July 11, 2003 10:48AM

I have photos on my pc. how do i attach them here?

Placid · July 11, 2003 10:56AM

Choose reply then look below where you type in the box for attach file(s).

Russ · July 11, 2003 10:58AM

When you reply to the post, you'll see a section down at the bottom that says "attachments" with a white box next to it. Click the button that says "attach file". Then click the button at the top that says "browse". Find the file on your hard drive, than double click it so that the path appears in the white box at the top that begins with "File:"

Then, over on the top right, click "Upload file". Once it's uploaded, it will appear in the larger box labled "File listing". Double click it in there, and it will appear in the box at the bottom. Then reply to the thread. It will appear as a link at the bottom of your posts.

Note: File size can be no more than 50K.

Russ, NCNE

askjaywalker752 · July 11, 2003 11:08AM

ElectricEye · July 11, 2003 11:11AM

use the Force, aSKjaYWALKER

askjaywalker752 · July 11, 2003 11:11AM

Files are too large - do you have an email i can send to?

Russ · July 11, 2003 11:13AM

<< <i>do you have an email i can send to? >>

russ@compucheap.com

Russ, NCNE

Russ · July 11, 2003 11:52AM

Okay, here's his coin:

Russ, NCNE

BAJJERFAN · July 11, 2003 11:56AM

This coin looks to be vf30 if not cleaned. In a PCGS slab I think you could expect to get $3000 to $3500 maybe.

Compare to this one.link-a-dink

Placid · July 11, 2003 11:58AM

Somewhere around $2,000-2,500 if genuine. Better get it certified.

Placid · July 11, 2003 12:06PM

The location of the mint mark seems to be off a little to my eye compared to one I know is the real
thing so I wouldn't try to sell it without getting it certified.

coinkat · July 11, 2003 12:18PM

Russ:

Thanks for posting the pictures/scans. My thoughts are as follows:

1. Is the coin authentic? Its possible. The style of the s looks okay. The real diagnostic for a 93-s is the obverse. There is a die polish line in the T of liberty and there is something within the R too. I think the date is okay, however, I would rather see the coin in person instead of relying on a scan. From the scan, these issues can not be resolved.

2. The coin was obviously cleaned, however, that is common for this date. From the scan, I would say there is about a 65-75% chance that it would be body bagged. The reason for the percentages is due to the angle of the scan and there could easily be hairlines that are attributable to a cleaning and not circulation. I believe that ANACs would net grade the coin.

3. What is the grade? Perhaps a Net F15. I think it would have a shot at VF20 or VF25 IF IT WERE ORIGINAL.

4. The value? If it is determined to be authentic, I would think it would fetch in the $1500-$1800 range. It could bring more depending on the surfaces of the coin and how good/bad they really are. To that end, I am not optimistic and would be skeptical.

Placid · July 11, 2003 12:19PM

Go to www.heritagecoin.com and search for 1893-S and look at the ones they have there for grade comparision and prices.
Funny most all the mint marks on the coins there I see look a little different. *shrugs*

The way to catch an altered 1893-S is by checking out the obverse diagnostics. The real ones are from a single obverse die. You'll find a die chip in the foot of the R of LIBERTY. You'll find a raised diagonal line through the top of the T in LIBERTY. You'll find that the first digit of the date is centered over a denticle and that the date slants upwards to the right.

beartracks42 · July 11, 2003 1:48PM

That die chip in the "R" of liberty resembles rabbit ears. If the coin does not have this die chip in the "R" of Liberty and the afore mentioned verticle mark in the cross bar of the "T" in Liberty, it is not authentic.

FC57Coins · July 11, 2003 1:55PM

Another diagnostic is the 1 of the date being immediately above the denticle as opposed to between them.

Dog97 · July 11, 2003 2:16PM

It looks VF & around $2,500. Kinda shiny. Possibly cleaned.

BAJJERFAN · July 11, 2003 2:32PM

The obv pic looks really muddled and full of mirage so its hard to judge anything from that. It does have some eye appeal deductions too. Its way more detailed than that vf20 in the #2 slab that I linked to and that thing brought $2700 plus change. Sometimes on eBay its not so much what you sell as when you sell. I would urge you to get the thing graded. If PCGS bodybags it then send it to ANACS. Are you planning to sell it?

If PCGS would bless yours with a 30 I bet Steve Estes would put it up at $3750 and sell it for that.

Russ · July 12, 2003 4:18AM

askjaywalker752,

So, what's the story on this coin? It's not like people are popping in here everyday with a '93-S.

Russ, NCNE

paigowjohnny · July 12, 2003 5:58AM

I think it's both genuine (based on the diagnostic of the "1" in 1893 centered over the denticle) and cleaned. Take a shot with PCGS or NGC...maybe you'll catch them on a good day and they won't bag it. If it does get bagged, then send to ANACS. That coin will still be in demand, and most people are reluctant to buy that date unslabbed because of authenticity issues.

greghansen · July 12, 2003 6:07AM

Kinda shiny.

You could signal rescue aircraft with that thing. I don't think it gets slabbed at PCGS or NGC. Net VF20 @ ANACS is my guess. Theres somebody somewhere in this world that will pay $2,500 for it.

KlectorKid · July 12, 2003 6:17AM

I'll say VF-20 Net VG-8 Cleaned.

clw54 · July 12, 2003 6:21AM

Will the cleaning drop it two grades? I'd think it would net grade Fine.

wallstreetman · July 12, 2003 6:50AM

Dont waste your money on PCGS, it wont get slabbed! I hate to see rare coins that were handled by Pete The Polisher, what a shame! Send it to ANACS, they slab anything, including counterfeits!

coinkat · July 12, 2003 8:34AM

Wallstreetman:

I think that your comments with respect to ANACs crosses the line of reasonable conduct...

wallstreetman · July 12, 2003 8:56AM

I bought a 1909 S Indian ANACS AU55 that turns out to have had the S added. I lost $350 because of those clowns, too bad I pulled it from their holder! Just another reason why PCGS is worth paying for!

Russ · July 12, 2003 9:00AM

WSM,

Who told you the S had been added?

Russ, NCNE

wallstreetman · July 12, 2003 9:06AM

5 or 6 different dealers at Long Beach, two of which took the coin to the ANACS table where things got ugly! Believe me, they know who I am!

wallstreetman · July 12, 2003 9:14AM

I was asking opinions on what PCGS might think of the color, little did I know that was the least of the problem! In my opinion, your better off buying raw than buying ANACS, your taking the same chance for less money!

coinkat · July 12, 2003 9:48AM

Wallstreetman:

1. I would not refer to the ANACs graders as clowns. They know more about coins than you think...

2. Why did you take the 1909-s out of the ANACs holder? What was your strategy behind that?

3. How about naming some of the dealers that told you the mint mark was added? BTW, how did these dealers examine the coin?

4. Who did you buy the coin from and what kind of return privilege did you have?

5. I have had my share of disagreements with ANACs, but I would not refer to them as clowns. BTW, the graders at ANACs know who I am too and frankly, I don't think that is relevant.

Good luck in your future collecting endeavors...

wallstreetman · July 12, 2003 10:08AM

You mean 1909? I dont remember any names, I should have made it a point, for obvious reasons! I remember some faces though. I simply wanted to put the coin in a PCGS holder, now Im kind of afraid to crack anything out! I seriously dont think the dealer would let me return a coin out of its holder! It was a shop in San Bernardino(Baseline St).

As far as ANACS being clowns, I always say, if the clown shoes fit!

braddick · July 12, 2003 10:21AM

I think it's real, I think it's VF20 or so and the light cleaning is acceptable (tilt almost any gray Morgan that is VF'ish and you'll see a "shiny" coin) as PCGS goes a tad easier on Key date Morgans and it's worth close to $3,000.00 retail (if it holders). JMHO

askjaywalker752 · July 14, 2003 3:56AM

Anyone here interested in the purchase of the 1893-S Morgan?

sinin1 · July 14, 2003 5:46AM

wallstreetman - too bad you did not keep it in the slab - they guarantee their work and you would have gotten your $350 from them

are you sure someone didn't pull a switchero on you?

askjaywalker - do you think someone would pay a couple grand off of some photos? especially when the mintmark area looks tooled and it could very well be added mintmark - try eBay if you want to play that game - send it to ANACS or NCS and get it in a slab as authentic, then I am sure more interest could be found.

doops · July 14, 2003 11:55AM

<< <i>Anyone here interested in the purchase of the 1893-S Morgan? >>

HOW MUCH ? I NEED ONE FOR A LOWER GRADE CIRC SET. EMAIL ME @ sfunderburke@jam.rr.com or send me a private message via
collectors universe...SERIOUS BUYER, NEED COIN

DCAMFranklin · July 14, 2003 2:29PM

<< <i>5 or 6 different dealers at Long Beach, two of which took the coin to the ANACS table where things got ugly! Believe me, they know who I am! >>

WSM- So you didn't know enough to detect the "added S" yourself?? You needed 5 or 6 dealers to point out the counterfeit S. I believe we are all beginning to get a better picture of your grading skills.

Now, we all can understand your insistance upon buying the PCGS slab. If you can't detect these kinds of problems yourself, then you DESPERATELY need the PCGS assurance!

1893-S Morgan Silver Dollar

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