rainbow Proof Statehood Quarter

MoneyLA · July 2, 2003 4:07AM

I just sent off to PCGS for a crossover a 2000-s silver Massachusetts state quarter with obv and reverse rainbow/colorful toning. It looks to be natural and authentic but I can't imagine how a coin less than three years old could get this way?? It is in an ANACS holder now and graded PR67-CAM and I suspect it is not a DCAM coin because of the toning.

The toning has plenty of blues and reds and purple and similar to rainbow toned coins I have from the 1950s and 1960s. The pattern of toning on the coin is haphazard and also lends itself to being authentic and not deliberate or artificial.

Of course I will let you know about the crossover results.

An immediate question: are there other colorfully toned state proofs out there -- authentic and not artificially toned? And does anyone know the source of the toning?

Im stumped on this one.

cheers, alan mendelson

MoneyLA · July 2, 2003 4:14AM

link to the ebay auction with photos, thanks and cheers, alan mendelson

link

baccaruda · July 2, 2003 4:26AM

to me, it looks like grossly improper storage - perhaps left in a hot, humid environment. I don't find that toning particularly attractive.

KlectorKid · July 2, 2003 4:31AM

There are others but its very odd for them to tone so quickly. Usually if not AT they have been put in spots to insure quick toning but I suppose some have naturally toned.

sinin1 · July 2, 2003 4:51AM

I have heard people have been finding some beautiful rainbow toning in the small mint bag of quarters that were originally sold by the mint - you know a bag of 100 quarters - $25 face for $32 or whatever

I did not think they sold proof coins that way though -

Blackhawk · July 2, 2003 5:17AM

To me it looks like it was done with powdered sulfur dusted on an old album and then kept in a humid enviornment.

laurentyvan · July 2, 2003 6:35AM

my 1999 proof set of statehood quarters have toned beautifully in their original case. The fields are a deep attractive gold and washington is still a frosty white. Same thing on the reverse, fields are deep gold and any raised surface is frosty white. My 2000 set has a milky blue toning which is rather unattractive, and the 2001's are heading in the same direction. But the 1999's are beautiful-some of the nicest looking coins I've seen. I was surprised to see this occuring but if other collectors are having the same experience, maybe it speaks to the quality of the mint's packaging techniques.

Hadleydog · July 2, 2003 7:42AM

I also have 2 sets of 1999 proofs that are toning nicely..........I believe there is another thread about this subject. It appears that there was a problem with a part of that run and there was a recall. Check out the bizarre penny.......cool!

rainbowroosie · July 2, 2003 7:46AM

My guess is that the original owner bought a 1999 set and a 2000 set and sent in the best pieces seeking PR 69/70 DCAM grades. Then, he didn't know what to do with the other 5 coins, so he put them in 1957 mint sets that had the pink paper just to see what would happen. Then, despite their origin in US mint set holders, I'll bet some of them toned up so amazingly that the grading services wouldn't slab them because they were "too pretty" to be "real toning." Ironically, I'll bet the services DID slab the "less pretty" coins...What do you think of this answer??

byergo · July 2, 2003 8:17AM

That is an embarrasingly poor AT job. Shame on ANACS!

Baley · July 2, 2003 8:21AM

coin dipped in a sulfur solution, submitted white, and it toned in the holder?

the slab should say, "questionable toning"

MoneyLA · July 2, 2003 8:50AM

gosh, I was hoping for some kind of concensus... well, it's in the mail to pcgs. will let you know. thanks for the thoughts. cheers, alan mendelson

boz · July 2, 2003 2:15PM

<< <i> I don't know how this coin got this way but I don't make um I just sell um! No reserve! >>

Nuff said!!

foodude · July 2, 2003 3:14PM

Lets go through the check list:

(1) Many of the AT colors are present, which is an AT indicator; and a few, but less in quantity NT colors are present, which is not an indicator AT. Also, if the toning appears to be floating on the coin (need to see the coin in person), there is yet another indication of AT.

(2) There are a number of somewhat abrupt changes in colors (not as abrupt as classic ATs, but not quite right), which is yet another AT indicator.

(3) Some of the colors travel up, across, and back down the devices, which is yet another AT indicator.

(40 Colors do not travel up and onto the rim, which would be an AT indicator if they did.

(4) The toning pattern look does not look NT, which is yet another AT indicator. In fact it has the look of an accelerated toning job.

(5) Typical toning shadow characteristics are not there, which is yet another AT indicator.

…

It could be an accidental NT, but it has a number of AT characteristics.

MoneyLA · July 2, 2003 3:55PM

fudude many thanks for your point by point analysis. this was the kind of info I was hopping to see on this board. while Im now collecting rainbow proof washingtons, Im not an expert at what makes toning legitimate or artificial. however, in person this coin exhibits the same toning characteristics of other toned washingtons I have in pcgs holders -- that is to say the toning appears not to be on teh surface or applied.

but frankly I cant understand how a coin would tone this way in such a short time and this makes me very suspcious. we are all under the impression that it takes decades to get such amounts of toning -- not in two or three years.

I was impressed that ANACS slabbed it, and that's why I bought it. Without the ANACS slab I never would have beleived it to be anything but AT.

I opened this thread wondering if there were others -- because others might help legitimize this one. are there others?? if this is unique, the doubt-level rises to the above-flood stage.

waitng for the pcgs verdict.

cheers, alan mendelson

michael · July 2, 2003 4:02PM

for me it is a no brainer AT coin

anx certifies many MANY blantant AT coins another one of many

sincerely michael

foodude · July 2, 2003 4:29PM

MoneyLA, please PM me when you get the PCGS verdict.

Discussing AT v. NT is a very volatile subject. Unless you witnessed the toning, there is always a question of whether it was intentional or an accident. In the end people look for signs of intentional, short term toning, and signs NT However, if someone puts a coin in a WR or similar holder or environment for 10, 15, 20, or more years, it will be viewed as NT, even though it was “intentional”- judging actual intent without facts is a problem…

Typically you do not know, based on actual facts, how the toning actually occurred. Therefore you look for signs of AT or NT. If the coin has enough signs of AT (even though it may actually not be AT), it is termed “questionable toning” which in the market place is effectively the same as AT. The more NT characteristics (and the fewer AT characteristics; and sometimes a clear AT characteristic can tip the scales to “questionable toning”), the more likely the toning will be viewed as AT, and not be “market acceptable” For the stunning (and I should point out rare- many people have not seen how good it can get, although with the internet and there are some posts of the real stunners that in the past most people never even saw, let alone had the opportunity to buy- the dealers knew who wanted such coins, and quickly passed the monsters quietly to the lucky buyer, and the rest of the world didn’t know the difference…; although some would show up at auction from time to time)..

I am no longer familar with ANACS's standards. Most of my "slabed" coins are in PCGS holders, with a few in NGC holders (most of which will cross to PCGS- in fact I will be mailing some in soon to PCGS).

Cam40 · July 2, 2003 6:32PM

The case for NT can be made for this proof quarter.

The original cases they came in were snap-together and not air-tight in anyway.
Therefore someone that may have stored them in the garage or attic where
climate changes are frequent, they could become looking this way as you,d expect.
And expecting them to turn this way was ,I,m pretty sure, the whole purpose
or this `sloppy` storage technique.
Also, quoting AT indicators for this coin as if it were a Morgan dollar is just wrong.

Most series have their own way of toning so I think many of the so-called indicators
mentioned are wrong.

ANACS graded it right I think.
Heck, They down-graded it actually.
It couldnt even make DCAM or anything higher than 67.
Practically ALL recent modern proofs are PR68 DCAM at the very least.

Another theory is it was dipped and poorly,if even, neutralized thus ATish looking.
Guarantee it,ll sell.
Its market acceptable I think. Someones gonna think its neat. AT or not.

MoneyLA · July 3, 2003 12:47AM

Cam40 thanks for your comments. Indeed the coin is marketable and frankly I would have paid more for it had the auction been a live one and I had seen it in person instead of an internet auction which makes you wonder as to authenticity. If you guys dont mind, ask around for other examples of these state quarters toning.

by the way, keep in mind that this was a silver state quarter. I sincerely doubt the non silver examples could ever tone like this.

cheers, alan mendelson

Cam40 · July 3, 2003 1:28AM

True. Clad Proofs do tone a bit differently. Some can be pretty but many more look awful like dark shadows
and stuff......no , not the 60s macabe soap opera....

rainbow Proof Statehood Quarter

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