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Who has actually seen bad coins in slabbed holders

tjkilliantjkillian Posts: 5,578 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
Just wondering who has actually seen very harshly cleaned, counterfeit, whizzed, altered coins in any holder, including ACG, NTC, & PCI. Not just a little "generous" grading or light brushing, but really nasty coins. Of course without the holder saying that there is a problem. I have some really hideous coins in ANAC's holders that are whizzed, but the holder says whizzed. I even has a really ugly indian cent in a PCI holder that says harshly cleaned.

Tom
Tom

Comments

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 25,042 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have a 1799 Bust dollar I bought raw off of eBay that had an assortment of problems BUT it was NOT cleaned or holded (!). It recently came back from PCI as (FN12) "mutilated". Now THAT'S a problem coin!
  • gsaguygsaguy Posts: 2,425 ✭
    I've seen a few toned pieces (moderns) that I thought were questionable. However, I'm no expert on moderns.

    I've also seen a few Morgans that I thought were questionable but none that I KNEW to be 'bad'.

    GSAGUY

    Edited to add: And a lot depends on the slab, of course.
    image
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,426 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have a coin on Ebay righ now. # 3033057093. Its not cleaned or whizzed or anything like that but the coin is way over graded and I am positive it is Artifically Toned. The coin has No Eye appeal at all. If the Rotton thing sells I will really be surprised. For sure the worst coin I have ever bought off Ebay. Atleast my description of the coin will let the next owner know what he is getting....if there is a next owner.

    Ken
  • DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    Tom,

    I bought a PCI 1955 PR Washington labeled PR67 Cameo for my raw set that I didn't look at too closely. Once out of the holder, I noticed a glint under the lamp and got the loupe. It was tooled beside the eagle's body on the lower wing to enhance the cameo effect. Below are the pics.

    image
    image
    image
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
  • BigD5BigD5 Posts: 3,433 ✭
    I had a scratched Barber quarter in an ICG holder, a polished Morgan in an ngc holder, blatantly dipped IHC in a pcgs holder. The key word is "had".
    I didn't have, but saw some of the absolutely worst coins imaginable in Segs holders that weren't marked as problem coins. Honestly, too many to mention. They were just plain awful, and I'm talking a substantial amount of coins.
    I've seen a cleaned/whizzed/baked seated half dollar in an NTC holder that was actually a bit funny it was so bad.
    Cleaned/retoned bust half dollar in an ACG holder. Not so bad except the coin was graded ms/64! Should have been au details, net au, at best.
    Let me think about this one for a little bit, and the list will GROW! image
    BigD5
    LSCC#1864

    Ebay Stuff
  • MercMerc Posts: 1,649 ✭✭
    I've seen several semi-prooflike Morgan dollars in DMPL holders.
    Looking for a coin club in Maryland? Try:
    FrederickCoinClub
  • gsaguygsaguy Posts: 2,425 ✭
    Fairlaneman,

    How do you know that coin to be AT'd? Did you do it yourself?

    GSAGUY
    image
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,426 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice little question GSA man. I think I said I was positive it was AT. If I did not say that I am sorry for being so vague on this forum. In the years of looking at Mercs, slabbed and not, I think I can spot AT if it is. Maybe not though. Bottom line is that I plain do not like the coin period. It looks like no other Merc in a slab I have owned. I hope this answers your question.

    By the way I have owned the coin for three days so I do not think I did the job on the coin. Also I am not quite sure what the jist of your question was. Maybe give me a little help...Huh ? Do I have a history of ATing coins. If I do its news to me and probably others that know me in person.

    Ken
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,643 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've seen some PCGS copper that should say "amateur spot removal".
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
  • ARCOARCO Posts: 4,443 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Please! for Barber halves I have seen hundreds of XF and higher coins slabbed by PCGS, NGC and ANACS that had hairlines, had been dipped and looked like a cat sh** on them and buried them in his sandbox. I doubt many altered, counterfeit or whizzed coins get past them in their defense.

    I just bought an NGC AU50 1900-O Barber half from Heritage. It had darker toning, so I cracked it out and lo and behold the toning came off in my hands revealing a chrome bumper shine and hairlines up the Wazoo.

    Hey NGC...KISS MY ASSS!!!

    Tyler
  • AndroidAndroid Posts: 726 ✭
    The worst purchases I've ever made were buying PCGS and NGC graded coins on Ebay. It seems that those overgraded certified coins (particularly moderns) that nobody will buy sight seen at shows, end up on Ebay. Regardless of pictures, these transactions are still sight unseen. I won't buy any coin online without a return priveledge anymore.

    Andy image

    We are finite beings, limited in all our powers, and, hence, our conclusions are not only relative, but they should ever be held subject to correction. Positive assurance is unattainable. The dogmatist is the only one who claims to possess absolute certainty.

    First POTD 9/19/05!!

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Who has actually seen bad coins in slabbed holders

    this is a trick question, right?? man, i almost fell for it!!

    al h.image
  • itsnotjustmeitsnotjustme Posts: 8,786 ✭✭✭
    I've seen a lot of way over dipped seated material in PCGS holders. There is no way I would buy any older/more valuable material without a scan or nice return policy.
    Give Blood (Red Bags) & Platelets (Yellow Bags)!
  • gsaguygsaguy Posts: 2,425 ✭
    Fairlaneman,

    Didn't mean to offend. I asked the question for several reasons.

    1) I know almost nothing about Mercs.
    2) You stated you owned the coin and you were 'positive' it was AT'd.
    3) Based on the scan, I actually liked the look of the coin and wouldn't have immediately pegged it as AT. To me, it looked like album toning.

    We've had numerous discussions on the board about the grading services (PCGS & NGC in particular) slabbing AT'd coins. I've commented that I've seen numerous coins that I thought questionable, but none that I was certain were AT'd.

    Hope this helps explain where I was coming from. Again, I didn't mean to offend so please accept my apology if I did. Please be patient with me as I try to learn more about Mercs.

    GSAGUY





    image
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,426 ✭✭✭✭✭
    GSAGUY

    Please ignore my PM. Yes I was a little pissed. Vagueness on these forums sometimes gets turned into things that they really are not.

    If you saw the coin in person I think you would agree with my statement about the coin. The pictures put up here just do not tell the whole story as we all know.

    Ken
  • gsaguygsaguy Posts: 2,425 ✭
    FLM,

    With the exception of Mr. Swimmer's Morgans, it's not too often that I state I'm 'positive' about the AT nature of a coin, especially based on a scan.

    For instance, Russ sent me a scan today of a nicely toned Morgan and asked my opinion. Even though I was 90%+ sure that the coin was AT'd, my response was, "Russ, I suspect that coin to be AT'd." Not having 'done' the coin myself, how could I know for sure?

    Also, those who've read my posts about AT'ing coins, know that I've always stated that an owner can do whatever he pleases with his coins. In other words, I can't blame a guy if he wants to AT his own coins (ruining them in my opinion). It's when the fellow AT's the coins and then trys to pawn them off as original that I have a problem. Mr. Swimmer comes to mind again.

    I looked at your auction and you made it clear to anyone that read the auction that you HATED that coin.....so I certainly wasn't thinking you were trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes.

    Again, the toning didn't scare me, and apparently didn't scare NGC either, so I was hoping you could give a detailed explanation as to the nature of the problem with the coin's color. If you've posted while I've been typing this post, then please ignore the post.image

    GSAGUY

    Edited to add Linky to Fairlaneman's ebay auction.
    image
  • Dave99BDave99B Posts: 8,890 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wouldn't say it was a "bad coin", but the oddest slabbed coin I ever laid eyes on was a common date Walking Liberty half dollar that was graded MS63 by PCGS. It was at best, VF20, and it appeared to be lightly cleaned. I tried to buy it from the dealer, but he said it was not for sale. I think it was at the ANA show in Seattle in (in '91?)

    Anyway, I carefully examined the slab to see if it had been altered, but it appeared to be legit. Had to have been a major accident/typo at PCGS.....neat coin.

    Dave
    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
  • PlacidPlacid Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭
    I have a obviously cleaned trade dollar in a anacs holder not marked as cleaned.
    I sent it to anacs for a guarantee regrade and they sent it back with no change in grade.


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