Dissatisfied e-bayer

drf236 · June 27, 2003 4:19AM

coin was sold with no return policy - customer says coin not what it is represented as

ie: type 2 and it wasn't

what are sellers obligation ?

RKKay · June 27, 2003 4:22AM

Is it a "no return" policy or was there no return policy? If the former, no obligation. If the latter, he misrepresented and has an obligation to correct the problem.

FC57Coins · June 27, 2003 4:24AM

If the coin that was sold was misrepresented - IE a type I was sold in the place of a type II, then to me the sale never took place. You went to buy apples and you got oranges.

Collector · June 27, 2003 4:41AM

if the coin was represented as a Type 2 and the customer got a type 2 coin with no return policy..then end of deal....if the coin isnt a type 2 and was represented as same..then no sale...give the money back.....whose word is it that it is a type 2 coin to begin with..yours?..is it a raw or slabbed coin?..if raw coin..take it back if the buyer feels it is not a type 2 coin!!!..my two cents

DragonAzz · June 27, 2003 4:43AM

I bought a slabbed coin from a buyer (reputable according to feedback) that only had a return policy on raw coins. No return on slabbed coins. It was supposed to be a type 2 but was clearly a type 1.

I understood the seller's policy before bidding but thought it would be safe because the coin was certified. Seller restated their return policy in a very nice way when I contacted him.

I contacted the slabbing company (notice I did NOT say "grading") and they told me they would be happy to reslab it as a type 1 at no charge. "Gee thanks!!!"

That little error in judgement cost me two hundred of my favorite dollars!!! (Insert toilet flushing sound here)

Collector · June 27, 2003 4:47AM

wow ugly luck with some $......would definitely not buy from that person (seller) again....he obivously was more interested in the $ than keeping a customer happy....and noted your dig on slab vice grading....sorry to hear of the misfortune

drf236 · June 27, 2003 4:58AM

raw coin was bought and sold thinking it to be type 2 - no scam intended. how do I know he hasn't swtched coin Text

tjkillian · June 27, 2003 5:27AM

Do you have the eBay link?

Tom

drf236 · June 27, 2003 5:42AM

added link --- I want to do what is right, thats why I am here asking those who know better than me. I want to make sure I'm not being duped. I bought and sold a type 2 as far as I know.

ldhair · June 27, 2003 6:37AM

Lots of folks get these mixed up.

Hope it works out.

DCAMFranklin · June 27, 2003 6:42AM

<< raw coin was bought and sold thinking it to be type 2 - no scam intended. how do I know he hasn't swtched coin >>

You don't. Just like all buyers of raw coins on Ebay don't KNOW the seller, with lots of material, won't deliver a coin different from the pic/scan in the auction. Trust and feedback do play a role. Good luck!

drf236 · June 27, 2003 7:06AM

You don't. Just like all buyers of raw coins on Ebay don't KNOW the seller, with lots of material, won't deliver a coin different from the pic/scan in the auction. Trust and feedback do play a role. Good luck!

I just sent him email- that I posted this, and will abide with the feedback of this forum

Rampage · June 27, 2003 7:30AM

My opinion is that you should have slabbed that coin before selling it.

Too often, people get these varieties mixed up. Being that it IS difficult to tell on the SBAs, a $150.00 plus coin should have been slabbed first to verify what it is.

Now, as to the return policy. It is in a holder. Take it back. If it looks tampered with, then return it to the customer. Plus, you did not state a return policy. Technically, he/she should have asked first.

ultradmpldollars · June 27, 2003 7:31AM

buy pcgs slabbed type 2 dcam. Then you know for sure.

ldhair · June 27, 2003 9:05AM

<< Plus, you did not state a return policy. Technically, he/she should have asked first. >>

I was wondering about this.

Is there an Ebay rule or do they even get involved in this?

drf236 · June 27, 2003 10:39AM

ttt

ElectricEye · June 27, 2003 10:52AM

If you've seen the tv commercials, according to EBay: "you won't get E screwed". In reality, EBay is too busy screwing as many people as they can to be bothered intervening in your troubles. Take the documentation and a statement or two of "expert" coin dealers in your area to the USPS and file a mail fraud claim.

IMHO or NSHO...you be the judge

drf236 · June 27, 2003 11:10AM

Take the documentation and a statement or two of "expert" coin dealers in your area to the USPS and file a mail fraud claim

to prove fraud you have to prove intent, there is no intent - or I would't be here

we are off thread

I am looking to resolve not provoke

ldhair · June 27, 2003 11:43AM

At some point it will be up to you to decide what is best and the right thing to do.

My opinion and if it were me.
If I am 100% sure I can tell the difference between the T1 & T2.
I am 100% sure I sent the right coin.
I would stand my ground and say so.
Possibly ask the buyer if he is sure he can tell the difference.
Maybe send large images of the two types.

You said you bought and sold the coin thinking it was a T2.
If you are not 100% sure, it might be best to take the coin back.

Just my opinion

Conder101 · June 27, 2003 4:46PM

Here's my take on it.

You represented the coin as a 1981-S type 2. No hesitations, qualifiers, not uncertainties. It IS an 81-S type 2.

Your picture was not of sufficient clarity to allow the bidder to confirm the attribution for himself. This meant that he was dependant upon your attribution skills.

No return policy of any kind was stated in the auction, either that there was one or that the sale was "No Returns" or "as is".

The customer reports that the item is NOT what it was clearly represented to be.

Since your contract with the customer was to deliver "the shown coin, an 81-S type 2" and the coin isn't then I would say no valid contract exists.

In the absence of a valid contract and with no statement that there are"No Returns" I would say that the customer is due a refund.

As to the possibility that the customer may have switched the coin, that is a possibility and it is the risk of sending out the coin in a holder that can be undetectably opened and reclosed. And it is a risk you took. I'm sory to say I think you should pony up the refund and hope the coin has not been switched. Good luck.

greghansen · June 27, 2003 4:57PM

I'm with Condor101.

As an aside, all coins I sell go to buyer in a holder that I can uniquely identify. Even if its just a 2x2 flip, its got my handwriting or an ID on it...so that if someone wants to return a coin I have no problem as long as its in its original holder. Prevents the switch problem.

drf236 · June 27, 2003 6:01PM

these are two of his negs - giving me reason to be suspicious

togabears ( 378 ) Mar-09-02 08:12:45 PST 1333740396 B
Complaint : coin didn't change from photo,guess YOU can't be happy all the time. SLOW PAYER
Response by rcr1960 - Payment was made within 3 days of auctions end. Seller will not gaurantee satisf

rainbow_coins ( 1041 ) Dec-24-02 08:42:11 PST 805380088 B
Complaint : WARNING SELLERS! Avoid this hothead who leaves instant bad feedback!
Response by rcr1960 - CHECKOUT SELLERS FEEDBACK-LATELY HE CAN'T SEND OUT THE RIGHT ITEM TO BUYERS! F-

SarasotaFrank · June 27, 2003 6:36PM

this is a tough coin, and a number of dealers, let alone collectors, can't tell the difference.

The photos don't show it anywhere near clear enough.

The "filled s" vs "clear s" in this year is not really determined by filled or clear, but by the serif shape. A member here has an outstanding "small dollar website" although the person escapes me at the moment.

While I think you can stick to your guns, I don't think the amount of money is worth the trouble. I would take the coin back.

Under what circumstances did you acquire it, and what did you pay? If you cracked it our of a proof set thinking you had the good fortune to come across one (as I thought until I visited the small dollar website), you're not getting dinged on it. If you bought it as a type II, I would be going back to the original seller.

drf236 · June 27, 2003 6:49PM

If I refund him - and get back switched coin, I lose on both end - Bad deal for me. I still insist I sold him a type ll. he will not return coin without refund. again, I LOSE
Lose lose for me

SarasotaFrank · June 27, 2003 6:57PM

<< I still insist I sold him a type ll. >>

you've answered your own question. Don't refind, take the soon to arrive neg as the only blemish on your record, dismiss it as a kook and move on. This stuff happens.

How's the traffic near GSP82?

WWBillman · June 27, 2003 7:57PM

He has to ship the coin back to you prior to you giving the refund that is standard practice. If he wont ship coin prior to a refund then the sale stands. If he sends it back and he has tampered with it or swapped coins then you just ship the coin back to him and the sale stands. If it was your mistake issue a refund after you get the coin back.

I also think the lack of a stated return policy in an auction does not automatically mean there is not one. It is your responsibility to state yea or nay in the auction. If you do not state a return policy but unknown to your bidders do have a no return policy then you are being a chicken s*** not wanting to take a chance on loosing bids due to not allowing returns knowing a lot of bidders will not ask prior to bidding for one reason or another.

drf236 · June 27, 2003 8:06PM

I think your answer is the best solution I have received to this point. I have no problem with refunding if I get MY COIN back first

DCAMFranklin · June 28, 2003 8:17AM

Sorry, but I believe you had made your decision, prior to posting this thread. I think you were just looking for the Members of this Forum to provide you with additional support for your decision. To drag up a couple of old Negative feedbacks as proof, only confirms my suspicions. Those Negative feedbacks only prove that the buyer is a picky member of the hobby. That I will acknowledge. However, they don't do a thing to prove that the buyer is attempting to switch coins on you. I find that allegation to be completely without merit. If you are going to take this kind of position, then raw coins are certainly not for you. Read Greg Hansen's post and follow his advice.

drf236 · June 28, 2003 8:33AM

dcam you are totally wrong in your assumptions

I looked at his negs just prior to posting them

my mind is being made up by this forum

I repeat - " that's why I am here "

tell do you really believe that there are no switchers on ebay, If you do then you are blank " fill in the blank "

darktone · June 28, 2003 8:44AM

There is NO-WAY! I would ever give a cash refund before the coin in question was returned. It just does not work that way. Have him send the coin back and after you inspect it and it checks out okay give the buyer a refund. mike

mnmcoin · June 28, 2003 8:48AM

My advice is to explain the situation to him. Let him know that you are only interested in the truth and getting him the coin as promised a type 2. Tell him to send the coin back, and that when you confirm that it is indeed your coin, you will take it to a local dealer and ask if it is type two (just remember that there are a tremendous amount of dealers that can't tell the difference), so you may want to ask two or three, or perhaps someone, I think Russ has some close up pictures, can post pics of the difference. If it is confirmed that it is type 1 you refund his money with an apology...if it is confirmed as a type two, you can give him the option of getting the coin again...just know full well that he may decline. At that point just like your wounds and move on, one negative won't hurt you, even if it gets to that. At that point you have done all that you could from the point of already selling it so, sa la vi (sp).

The type 2 s on the sba for the 1981 is not merely the clear s, you have to make sure it is a flat s with bulbs on the ends of the s. There is in fact 3 types for both dates (1979 and 1981) and I have even heard of a fourth type for the 81 I beleive, but have not confirmed it. Based on your picture, and it is a guess, since it is not the greatest pic, but I have seen about 50 true type 2 1981 sbas and I can usually spot them from a mile away...I would say it is the type 1.

morris <><

supercoin · June 28, 2003 8:57AM

WWWBillman saved me the trouble.

And if you get the right coin back, just send him his money, whether you think it's a Type 1 or Type 2. If it's really a Type 2 you won't have any trouble getting that price again.

From the photo it looks like there are a couple cameo breaks you can use to positively identify your coin, or of course if it's still looking like a Type 2 to you then you know there's no trouble.

But unfortunately, I'd have to agree with mnmcoin... my best guess is that's a Type 1.

DCAMFranklin · June 28, 2003 9:11AM

<< 

<< raw coin was bought and sold thinking it to be type 2 - no scam intended. how do I know he hasn't swtched coin >>

You don't. Just like all buyers of raw coins on Ebay don't KNOW the seller, with lots of material, won't deliver a coin different from the pic/scan in the auction. Trust and feedback do play a role. Good luck!

>>

<< tell do you really believe that there are no switchers on ebay, If you do then you are blank " fill in the blank " >>

Of course I think there are "switchers" on Ebay. Please see my first post above. Right now your buyer thinks you are one of them! No implication intended. Right now I don't know if either of you know how to detect a type2. Yet, a seller, of raw coins especially, must be willing to look at the situation from the buyer's perspective. You are only seeing the situation from the seller's perspective. Right now your seller feels like he has paid type2 money for a type1 coin. And the seller is fighting him/her over the refund to which he/she thinks they are entitled. He/she is attempting to protect his/her position by retaining the coin for the refund. Hopefully, they will "see the light" and return the coin first. However, I will say that you should take the high road and provide the refund. That would be regardless of what you find in a returned coin. Learn from the experience. If you don't intend to provide a cheerful refund, then you should stear away from raw coins or find a means of delivering the coin in a tamperproof holder. Or, you need to make it BLATANTLY obvious in your auction description that the coin is being sold withOUT a refund privilege. Good luck!

mnmcoin · June 28, 2003 9:19AM

<< But unfortunately, I'd have to agree with mnmcoin... my best guess is that's a Type 1. >>

Thats weird, my wife hates to always agree with me too.

mo <><

drf236 · June 28, 2003 10:09AM

here is a copy of the forum as promised

The consensuses as I see it is

You return the coin, I then will first verify that it is my coin.

and then be it Type l or Type ll I will refund $ 150.01 ( your bid price )

get back to me after you digest info

Just sent this email, I'm posting it to prove to all who doubted my intentions were made up before I posted the thread.

All of your input did helped me to decide this answer. And that was all I wanted. I see many didn't believe me And to those who doubted my intent, owe me a " I read you wrong "

now I'll let this end.

I really don't want to continue this BUT
I just received another demand email from buyer.
He repeats his original DEMAND of no coin until I refund his money

I'm back to square one

again any advice

drf236 · June 29, 2003 4:12AM

ttt

darktone · June 29, 2003 4:27AM

Not really much you can do unless he returns the coin. This is really starting to sound like he's trying to scam you. I would just tell him return the coin for refund or keep it and shut up- and tell him to respond with-in three days because if it's not resolved by then you will block his emails and block him from bidding on your coins again. I think you will get a neg no matter what the outcome. good luck mike

DCAMFranklin · June 29, 2003 5:46AM

<< Not really much you can do unless he returns the coin. This is really starting to sound like he's trying to scam you. I would just tell him return the coin for refund or keep it and shut up- and tell him to respond with-in three days because if it's not resolved by then you will block his emails and block him from bidding on your coins again. I think you will get a neg no matter what the outcome. good luck mike >>

Darktone provides some good advice. One way or another this needs to be reconciled. If the buyer is not willing to work with you, then there is not much you can do. The terms are to return the coin for a refund. Again, I stress you should provide the refund regardless of the coin you receive. Though, you don't seem to agree. If the buyer refuses to return the coin, then block his e-mail, add him to your blocked bidder list and trade your Negative feedbacks. All you can do is try. Fellows like this buyer are why Negatives are inevitable on Ebay. Some people just can't be satisfied. Good luck!

Conder101 · June 29, 2003 3:39PM

I agree, his refusal to return the coin puts this in an entirely different light. I said earlier that I felt you owed him a refund, but if he has not and will not return the coin you owe him nothing. If he negs you state that in your reply "offered refund, he refuse to return coin."

Dissatisfied e-bayer

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