Are SMS coins graded different?

clackamas · June 26, 2003 3:47PM

Are SMS coins graded to a higher standard? Meaning if you had a circ coin that looked like an SMS would it be graded higher - all else being the same? Does the question make sense?

Conder101 · June 26, 2003 11:08PM

The problem is that there would be a good chance that the services will call it an SMS coin which are worth less in the high grades than the regular circulation coins. Many people have had that problem. Send in a MS-68 coin taken from an original roll worth a bundle, and get back a MS-68 SMS worth a modest premium. And once it gets into the SMS holder it is almost impossible to get it switched over into a non-SMS holder short of cracking it out and resubmitting it several times until it finally makes it into the proper holder. But that cost so much and takes so long that it usualy isn't worthwhile.

sinin1 · June 27, 2003 12:41AM

are you referring to coins that look prooflike but can't be?

a 1968-D would be an example

I am curious how they decided some 1964 coins were SMS

clackamas · June 27, 2003 12:56AM

I had a really nice 1967 Rossie that I thought had a shot at MS68. It was graded as MS67 SMS. I took it from an Original bankwrpaed roll so I am fairly certain that its not an SMS coin, unless of course the mint either accidentally released one into circulation. I thought that if they graded it as an MS67 SMS that as a circ strike it may be an MS68 because it is a superb coin. I called custoemr service and told them they made a mistake, thankfully before the coin shipped, so maybe they will get it right. They also did not "FB" the coin and its clearly a FB, at least IMO, so I wonder if the standards are different for SMS vs. circ for "FB" designation as well. Basically a higher bar to jump over.

Conder101 · June 27, 2003 3:31AM

A proof-like 1968-D would not come back SMS because they didn't have SMS that year. This tends to be a problem with 1965 - 67 coins and 1994 nickels where the SMS nickels sometimes come back as business strikes.

melikecoins · June 27, 2003 3:51AM

clackamas
PCGS will grade your non SMS coin as an SMS with your coin getting a lower grade because they grade it to SMS standards.

In other words you will have a MS67 coin get a grade of MS65 (SMS) because it is not as nice as an SMS coin.

It has happened to me THREE TIMES with 1967 pennies. I took the coins out of BANK WRAPPED ROLLS never openned.

They came back SMS MS65RD, SMS MS65RD, and SMS MS64RD. These where MS67 COINS .

They looked nothing like SMS coins an yet their right here in SMS holders.
Expert graders!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Glen

wondercoin · June 27, 2003 4:18AM

I have no problem with PCGS' EXTRA CAUTIOUS new approach to 1965-67 coinage (and hopefully 1994, 1997 nickels). Too many collectors were getting "ripped off" (some with full knowledge or at least suspicion of what they were buying, but desparately seeking the "plastic" registry points) buying SMS coins sitting in regular issue holders - some due to pure mechanical errors. The new approach. I suspect, defaults any close call coin to SMS.

Now, understand one other thing - "fresh" roll coins from 1965-1967 can potenitally be full of SMS coins. It was commonplace for dealers and collectors in the 1970's and 1980's to break up 1965-1967 SMS sets PURELY FOR THE KENNEDY HALF DOLLAR. The other (4) coins often times were simply "rolled up" (potentially with regular issue coins of those years) as the Lincoln, nickel, dime and quarter were viewed as being work around "face". Indeed, I personally spent SMS coins during that time period. After all, these SMS sets were selling for as little as around $2/set. The Kennedy half was worth that amount alone! For 1966-67 issues, you also got thrown in a nice plastic holder one could use for other date proof sets. So, the cent through quarter (41 cents) simply made the cost of that Kenendy coin roughly $1.60 - that is the way many looked at the situation back then. So, simply because coins come from "bank wrapped" rolls does not mean the rolls might not contain SMS coins.

Wondercoin

clackamas · June 27, 2003 4:31AM

Mitch,

Thanks for the info, I was unaware that this was done. I supose its possible that this occured. How can you tell the difference between a circ strike and an SMS?

melikecoins · June 27, 2003 4:40AM

Good historical information Mitch.

Many of us do not have your prospective on these coins.

But I for one will not be sending anymore MS coins of that era only SMS’s

Glen

wondercoin · June 27, 2003 7:15AM

The SMS vs. non-SMS coins of that era is an issue of surface "texture" - there are no diagnostics I am aware of to tell the difference. You simply have to see enough coins to develop a "feel" for the difference. Obviously, when you see cameo surfaces, you are well on your way to determining a coin to be SMS.

Wondercoin

cladking · June 27, 2003 12:19PM

There is another major complicating factor; many of the SMS dies were used to strike
regular circulation issues after they were "retired" from use. This is evidenced by the
huge number of coins which were issued to circulation which appeared SMS. There were
far too many of these to have all come from SMS's. Also many of them were struck by
dies with much more wear than SMS dies usually evidenced and die allignment and pres-
sure were often poor.

Are SMS coins graded different?

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