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Aswimmer experience
Tonelover
Posts: 1,554 ✭
One of my clients was relaying his recent experience with our favorite ebay coin chemist. You know, the one who says to send the coins in for grading and if they're not authentic he'll refund your money?
Well the client received $600 worth of bodybags, big surprise. When he contacted Aswimmer he was instructed to return the coins for a refund. A personal check arrived shortly thereafter, problem is that it bounced. The client then demanded a certified check and what he received in the mail next time was something different. His coins back.
He was then blocked by email and can't get a word from the weasel. We discussed a few options, but it's likely futile and he'll just be chalking it up to an education. Just words to the wise, when dealing with someone you don't know be very careful even if they do have a supposed guarantee in place. If it looks too good to be true, it probably is.
Well the client received $600 worth of bodybags, big surprise. When he contacted Aswimmer he was instructed to return the coins for a refund. A personal check arrived shortly thereafter, problem is that it bounced. The client then demanded a certified check and what he received in the mail next time was something different. His coins back.
He was then blocked by email and can't get a word from the weasel. We discussed a few options, but it's likely futile and he'll just be chalking it up to an education. Just words to the wise, when dealing with someone you don't know be very careful even if they do have a supposed guarantee in place. If it looks too good to be true, it probably is.
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Comments
GSAGUY
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Jeremy
Lori
I agree with the latter part of your post.
IF, and that's a big IF, mailfraud is involved then that would constitute a breaking a federal law............them's got teeth.
GSAGUY
Russ, NCNE
So the guy is not only out the $600 grading fees, but the cost of the coins as well? Ouch. I'm surprised he didn't just try one or two coins before jumping in with both feet.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
I expect jail time for this aswimmer kat when caught.
That assumes that Mr. Swimmer is able to be found. I notice he's shut down his ebay offerings of shake & bake goodies. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if hasn't already hauled ass out of town, fleecing this guy and numerous others.
I'd call him a dirt bag but I'm sure a dirt bag has some redeeming qualities.
GSAGUY
This is EXACTLY what a lot of these scammers count on.
And the beat goes on....and on....and on.
GSAGUY
I remember a while back K6AZ posted a heads up on swimmer and the board members swarmed to swimmers defense and called K6AZ a Nazi and asked him if he was from France.
Then spawned spin-off threads defending swimmer. Even claimed he was persecuted. Jesus Christ was persecuted. Swimmer was a fraud. Big difference.
Maybe your client read the threads complimenting swimmer's honesty & his new business practice and believed it.
Where's swimmer's defenders now?
Perhaps taking up a collection to reimburse his victims?
I figured there were 3 pooibilities for the truth;
!. He was a coin doctor looking to scam the public.
2. He was an unwitting seller of coins he already had that might have already been AT when he got them.
3. His coin were mostly NT.
The suggestion was simple, pick one of the big 3 grading services that most collectors use.Pcgs, Ngc,
or ANACS, and submit either economy or regular depending on the value of the coin, and if he was telling the truth, only sell the coins that came back slabbed.
It's to bad people would buy raw coins with questionable toning.
Les
Not meant to excuse him, just trying to give him a chance to prove otherwise. In other words my idea of submitting the coins to the big 3 was saying you are guilty unless you actually follow thru and submit and prove yourself innocent. His lack of follow thru was just as good as an open confession in my opionion. Les
It is just like taking a partial payment for a hot check.
It's now a small claims case. Not a criminal matter.
karlgoetzmedals.com
Since it was through the USPS, a government agenct, it is a federal crime, as I believe I've heard.
Jeremy
He gives weasels a bad name!
At least it would be a partial payment. Making it a small claims case.
Lincoln Wheats (1909 - 1958) Basic Set - Always Interested in Upgrading!
Beleive me, I'm not defending the guy, not one bit. It's just odd how things transpired.
I also think Idhair is correct, and it was a big mistake to take the coins back.
LSCC#1864
Ebay Stuff
<< <i>The "funny" thing is, and I'll use "funny", for a lack of a better term, is that ASwimmer sold legitimate coins at one time on Ebay >>
Remember that college kid who was passing off older model computers as new ones just by putting new labels on the cases? He also started off selling legit computers, ran out of money, and started his hugely profitable scam. He got away with over $300,000 before he was caught.
A judgment can't be put in the bank.
eBay should be informed to stop further abuse, but I don't think the courts are the answer. He will simply ignore the summons and there again....you get a ....judgment. Almost worthless.
I had a guy go bad on me in 1983 and my check from him to me for $19,000 cleared TWO HOURS before they closed his account. WHEW!
Getting ANYTHING back on a sour dealer is a big PLUS.
Just don't do it again.
I don't know why more people don't check REAL references.
Mine are
A-Mark
Jack Hunt
John Engle
David Lawrence
Teaparty
American Metals
Dillon Gage
and my account as VPCA11 on CoinNet (11th dealer in Calif to join CoinNet in 1983)
feedback is open to interpretation.
<< <i>Check your local District Attorney. I know that where I live passing bad checks is a felony, regardless of amount. Thus, the Johnny Cash song "you dont go writing bad checks down in Mississippi and there aint no good chain gang." From my experience people tend to pay quickly once you place handcuffs around their wrists. >>
Hmmmmm....
Pardon me guys.
I have to step in here and fill in some facts. It is really easy to say all this stuff when you know almost none of the story. You are all level headed people and why do you have to say all this stuff when I am what you are all saying. It is like one person says something and the others just believe it without questioning it as if what they said was slabbed and beyond doubt. The next person just takes off on that and prety soon I am the definition of evil. If you knew the full story then you would think differently. The guys who said I have and do sell good coins are right. Sure, I strayed with the toning and learned allot from the mistake but you guys just dont care that I refunded and am still in the process of refunding money that will bring the total to something in the order of $4000+ to people for the Morgans that I guaranteed to be NT that were not . I take back returns all the time and that is the way I do things. I want hapy customers. I just made a mistake not one that requires a life sentence to have you all say such really untrue things about me for the next decade. Sure, I made some dumb statements but in the face of 50 or more of you during that huge snow storm last winter where many of you had nothing to do except pound me in to the ground. I was overwhelmed like a jack rabbit in a meadow being chased by a wolf pack that smells blood. Allow me to tell you the facts about the things you say as objectively as I can possibly be. Feel free to comment back to me at aswimmer@speakeasy.net. I have nothing to hide and do not use many names or user IDs, my address and phone are listed in every auction. I am an open book whereas many of you are not and like to buy and sell under verious names and hide behind alias' so you don't have to be accountable for al your statements. YOu have labeled me wrong and you cant just day that 3500 postive feedbacks are from newbies, idiots or friends. That is outlandish, I have been in business 20 years and have always been proud of the high customer service standards that i adhere to. And whoever the wizard was that made the really informed statement that I lost money in the computer business is really ignorant. I was amazingly successful but back then who wasn't. It was the hottes economy I have lived through.Now, the computer business is the worst I have seen it in 20 years and it is really sad, but luckily I divested from the stock market in 2000 and bought coins with every penny of that money and since 9/11 I have been selling them and other stuff as a full time job. I do have a ton of PC stuff left and am getting ready to sell it here on ebay so if any of you guys need some stuff cheap let me know. real cheap as my wife wants it out of this place. Anyway the following three or so items are directed at the things I read today and wanted to respond to since you all are seeing me for one mistake and not for all the good I do. I am not a coin dealer, I am just a colector who bought too much, as soon as my coins are gone then I will not be a coin much. So please try and be open to the below stuff as it is all true and I have emails and other evidence to prove it. I did not go back to surce documents for the writing of this so there may be a tiny fact off here or there but nothing that changes the major facts as they stand. I also am not omitting anything that will make me look better or whatever. these are the true issues and not that oh, aswimmer he is just a bad guy and the law will get him. Now please gentleman and ladies, are you that narrow minded to believe that I am much different than you. I went to UC Berkeley BA in Political Econ and have an MBA from Golden Gate U in San Francisco. I worked in the PC industry selling PCs to schools for Apple then my own company until the crash.
1. Tonelover, I guess you dont care about facts but just want to spread one side of the story because it makes you feel better or something like that. i don't know but it usually helps if you know the truth when stating something your claiming to know about. Ok, so let me start way back in the new year. A customer won 15 auctions from me in the month of January and the last one was in early Febuary. In mid March he contacted me asking to return them because he felt they were all AT since 1 came back in a body bag. His statement was that I misrepresented the coins in the auctions and thus he wanted to return them I said i had a 7 day return policy at that time but I would take any coin that the ad claimed that a coin was natural even if he had only one of the 15 graded. I said just send the coins with a printout of each auction and what it was that I was mis representing. Later I received the coins but the 1893 was absent. I told him and he said he had it in Texas. He sent it to me and so now it was early May I believe. The coins were all here and he had also sent back the two gifts I had sent him, 1 was a creal nice clock/weatherstaion and the other was a free 1901-0 Morgan in AU++. I had asked him about the gists but when he said he thought I would ask for them back I responded that I did not want them back and he was mistaken. they did come back and I loked at each coin and there was no auction ad print out with the claim that I was misrepreenting included. This is after three different emails stating that the only request I had was that if he is claiming misrepresentaton then the add should claim it is what he is claiming that the coins were not as stated. Now, I had to go print out the the 15 auctions and look at each one to see if I claimed that the coin was NT. If I did not claim so how could I refund a claim that was not valid and extend the return period to something like 45 to 60 days in his case. I now was faced with a problem. He had 15 feedbacks to retaliate against me and cause unwarranted pain. So I did what is not the best thing but it solved the problem. I went through the coins and issued him two checks, one for the coins that the ad claimed NT and the other check for the coins that were not. I then send the two checks, the two gifts back but swapped out the toned gift morgan with an MS non toned coin of the same date I believe. Then a few days later I sent the coins that the second check was stopped payment on so as to protect myself from negative feedback (since the 90 days was now up). So what did I do, I honored his request way after the return policy had ended, I sent him gifts and then sent them back to hiim, I offered to pay shipping back to, I did not deduct any fees that I can rememeber other than the orginal shipping. I also told him all he had to of done was ask for an extension on the return policy due to the grading company and the time it takes them to send the submissions back to him and it would have made things a lot better but to show up out of the blue and claim somehting that was not even claimed in the ad was just too much. And finally because of this guy I started a 45 day return policy on coins that I claim are NT so that people can feel good about the coin. If they need longer then they can just ask. I have never refused a return yet other than the part of this guys since I bent so far over for him as it was that there was no more I could go and still call myself a business and not a charity.
I refunded him what he was due and was way more than fair. I participated in SQUARE TRADE MEDIATION Per his request and he dropped the case after the facts were again stated. I included all the emails and paperwork to show him the facts and that I could not refund what I never claimed 60 days after the auction. He got back about 45% of his money and all the coins that I could not refund plus the gifts. And this is all on I think one coin being body bagged.
2. regarding the $15 bad check for an 1853-o quarter. Here is the true story. I bid on a coin and won it just as K6AZ pointed out and the seller gave me a negative while I did not retaliate with a negative to him, I took it to Squaretrade and the negative will be removed as we both agreed there was some things that we each did to bring it to a head. OK, so I won the auction and he does not take paypal so I was to send him a check. I admit I was late in sending it, something like a week went by before I mailed it. Anyway, the guy was only in Washington state and I am in CA so it should have been there in 2-3 days for sure. Well, he emailed me a few days later and asked where what the deal was and I said I mailed it and showed him pictures of the accounting programs screen with the check listed. It does not prove I mailed it for sure but it is something at least. A few days later he emailed me telling me he did not receive it yet and he relisted the coin on a new auction. I told him that I still wanted it and could he close the auction. He said that the price I paid the first time was not really what he was looking for so he saisd how about $20. I said ok since that was with the shipping it was not too much more than the 15.50 plus shipping. Well, then I went away for a few days after just having gotten married. And I had left him hanging by mistake and this relisted coin was now wup right around what I paid as I recall. So, I told him just let it go and forget about me buying it. Then the check arrives, the PO took 12 days to deliver the letter. He emailed me asking me what to do with the check and I said go ahead and send it back since you have a new series of bidders and you probably will get a good or better price for it from what I was seeing and he said that it was his friend that won it and I could still have it if I sent up a check or cash for 2.50 to total the $20. Well, I then started thinking about it and I started to wonder about this friend. So I checked into the winner Jenmao and the person has not won anything or bid on anything in a long time (over a year). Also the person only has 2 feedbacks, anyway I looked at the bidders and the sellers history and it all smelled funny. So I emailed him that I think the winner who so convieniently will give it up to me at this higher price of $20 is a shill or it is another account for himself. He just stated that it was a friend who buys coins sometimes and lives closeby. Well, now there is a bad feeling that I am being played and then the comunication tapered off then the negative appeared without any warning or last email of intent. So, the bottom line is that Mike is not bad and I am not bad, there were commuincation issues and the big delay by the pOST OFFICE that caused the whole thing to start. Neither Mike nor I ever used bad language or said anything out of line. I was upset that he deposited the check when I did not want the coin and sure I said I did but when the 2nd auction was doing so well and I was so busy with my new marriage, I said just let that winner have it. well when he did not want to do that then that is when I really suspected shill or colussive bidding going on. The checking account that the check was written on only has funds to cover the checks I write and I write very few since I use paypal or my paypal cash back credit card for everything. The other reason is that I send overseas checks and the risk of fraud is great. So not knowing that he deposited the check the funds were not there to cover it. It was bad for me as it cost me $27 because that he deposited it without telling me when I told him I did not want the coin and specifically told him to return the check. The bottom line is I am sending him $5 to cover the fee for him just to clear this thing up as he wont budge and accept the mediators solution without the $5 and I want to complete the mediation.
3. The $190 check that did infact bounce a year or so ago was my fault and the seller was so gracious as to offer me to return it to her . I did do that. A dishonest person would have bounced a check and kept the coin. I am not dishonest. I just overspent at that time in my life, the coin was awesome as was the seller.
These are the facts as they are known and Squaretrade has records of the #1 and #2 items as they went to mediation. Any questions about any of this please ask me. I am just tired of all you smart guys coming up with these amazing coclusions . Like I am a dealer about to go bust or that I am a crook, it certainly is not deserved and if one of you guys was at the end of this verbal abuse that is biased and unwarranted .I dont think you would like it. ANd to Mr Lee who just can't let go of the thing about the certifiacation of the toned Morgans 6 months ago, wwell the customers did that for me and I then took actions to make good the claims that I believed the coins to be AT, when I was proven wrong or even if the customer just thought I was wrong. Like I said I have never not taken something back other than the coins that are metioned in #1 above.
Regards,
Alan
a) It's likely more of the same BS you spun last time. And;
b) Learn to use paragraphs.
Grabbing some popcorn, this thread should be fun!
Russ, NCNE
I'm not going to sit here and address each of your contentions. Are you willing to allow for further discussions with this person and make things square to both of your satisfaction? That's all I want to know. If so, I will speak with him and inform him you're willing to make peace.
My you are a sour type of person. Please read it, there is not one ounce of BS. It is all straight and honest. if you can't accept my admission of wrong doing and see that I made a mistake 6 months ago and continue your really childish attitude towards me then you are a hopeless case. Just because you are not a happy person does not mean you have to poison life for the rest of us. You are so negative, I may have made a mistake but I am man enought to admit it and refund money and deal with it. But to sit around at your computer store and spew this type of negative crap is just a sad way to live ones life. Please try to be a little nicer and you might find life is more than putting down others and acting al superior and mighty. I mean give me brea. You do't read what i wrote ten make the simply idiotic comment about paragraph usage. I know you are smart but quit allowing the chip on your shoulder or the childhood issues you never dealt be the things that control you behavior. It is a little anoying and shows you are not open to others opinions or what you called "BS". Wow Russ I really respect you now. Get a real life and quit trying to be the forum big shot. Self esteem is not based on how many things you can say bad about someone or how much you know about coins. You have some real issues my friend. I am not perfect but at least I confront them and not spew endless negativivity out of my mouth or fingers in this case. Just be a little more human and read the thing and quit the power trip , its getting old. I am not trying to offend you just speaking my opinions on your behavor for what little good it wil do to tell you anything about you. Does the words control issues mean anything to you? Paragraph use, are you for real.
That is untrue and I have no other names on this board or any other. That is a fact. I also did not know any of the people that defended me nor paid them or asked them to do it. You are totally mistaken and simply are adding to this get swimmer mentallity that really has little basis for being continued like I probably derserved back in Feb.
<< <i>Please read it, there is not one ounce of BS. It is all straight and honest. >>
Aswimmer,
I guess you're hoping that nobody will remember all the crap you tried to stick last time. You're a proven fraud and liar, and now you expect us to place any credence in anything you have to say?
Here's a clue: The membership at this forum is not nearly as ignorant as the average rube you've been fleecing on eBay.
Russ, NCNE
Anyway, I'm glad to hear you left the computer business for reasons other than going broke. I also do appreciate your apology for at least some of the matters subject of discussion during the referenced winter's snow storm, although it is not exactly clear as for which conduct you are now apologizing. Do I understand you to say that you did send the previous subject coin in for certification by NGC and PCGS and it came back body bagged? Just curious, do you still have it and are you willing to offer it again for sale - this time of course acknowledging that it is AT? As a curiosity it certainly now has added value that should make for some spirited bidding.