What do you make out of this reply from a seller RE Return Policy?

K6AZ · June 21, 2003 6:50PM

There is a coin I need up on eBay. It is in a PCGS holder, but the pictures are not very good and there is no mention of a return policy. I sent the seller a question the other day about what his return policy is, didn't get a reply. So I sent a second question:

Hi, I asked this earlier but did not get a reply. What is your return policy on this coin? Generally I trust PCGS slabs, but your images are a little dark and it is hard to see the coin. I have a low bid in now, but a definite return policy would definitely make me place a second stronger bid.

I got this response:

I think you would better off to pass on the coin. If you have negative feelings about the coin I think you should look somewhere else. We do appreciate your interest but we don't like staring a business relationship on a negative beginning. thanks....

How is it starting out negative when I simply ask what their return policy is so I can bid accordingly? This makes me think it is a low end dog for the grade, and I definitely will not be upping my bluesheet bid.

Baley · June 21, 2003 6:53PM

I think you're probably right. without the context of his other pictures, feedback, etc, it sounds like he thinks the coin might get returned for some reason, and doesn't want to even deal with the possibility.

K6AZ · June 21, 2003 6:58PM

I'm at the point now where the Morgans I am buying for my collection are costing a lot of money, and I don't want barely-made-it coins. The fact that he is avoiding the return issue tells me a lot. Sometimes, if there are nice large, good images I will take a shot without a return policy. This particular date for some reason has become almost impossible to find, and if Heritage, David Lawrence, BrokenCC, Pinnacle, or any other good dealer had it I would gladly pay a premium to be sure of getting a good coin. Guess I am just going to wait until one of them do have it.

ms70 · June 21, 2003 9:40PM

I'd pass on this seller. It seems he's not that interested in building the relationship he already wrote off as negative.

K6AZ · June 21, 2003 9:52PM

That's pretty much the conclusion I came to. They won't answer a direct question about their return policy, which tells me they are unloading low end coins for the grade. I don't like to retract bids, so if I wind up with it at my bluesheet bid, I'll probably be able to get my money back out of it.

Barry · June 21, 2003 9:56PM

<< <i>I think you would better off to pass on the coin. If you have negative feelings about the coin I think you should look somewhere else. We do appreciate your interest but we don't like staring a business relationship on a negative beginning. thanks.... >>

Translation: It really isn't a very nice looking coin, despite the holder. Why do you think the picture isn't great? There are enough idiots on Ebay that look no further than the number on the plastic (isn't that what the Registry is all about?) That's why I sell on Ebay. I don't want to be hassled by picky collectors, so good luck and keep hunting elsewhere for what you want.

MadMarty · June 21, 2003 10:27PM

Hey K6AZ,
Maybe he's an AGC dealer and you know you have been blackballed!

K6AZ · June 21, 2003 10:36PM

What are you saying Barry? You don't stand behind what you sell on eBay? As a seller I do, but then again I don't use it to unload low end coins. As far as "picky" collectors, you're damn right when I am spending $500+ for a coin, I don't want a dog.

Barry · June 21, 2003 10:48PM

Eric,
Of course I stand behind what I sell on Ebay. I was referring to the response you got, and what it meant - NOT my selling tactics.

RKKay · June 21, 2003 10:59PM

<< I think you would better off to pass on the coin. If you have negative feelings about the coin I think you should look somewhere else. We do appreciate your interest but we don't like staring a business relationship on a negative beginning. thanks.... >>

i.e. --This coin sucks, and that's why the quality of the picture does too. If you're not stupid enough to buy it without first knowing you won't get screwed, then you aren't my kind of customer.

K6AZ · June 21, 2003 11:02PM

OK, perhaps you hadn't had enough coffee when you wrote that, it sounded to me like you were saying you didn't want picky collectors bidding on your auctions.

Anyhow, the guy could have just given me a straight yes/no answer and I would have bid accordingly. Really, asking what your return policy is creates a negative impression? In the future, I definitely will be hitting the back button when I see it is him selling an item.

RKKay · June 21, 2003 11:06PM

I absolutely think asking about a return policy does not create a negative impression for an honest seller who stands by his merchandise. That seller sounds like his main priority is dumping garbage.

Barry · June 21, 2003 11:10PM

From my earlier post:
That's why I sell on Ebay. I don't want to be hassled by picky collectors, so good luck and keep hunting elsewhere for what you want.

That was a third person I, referring to the seller you referenced, not me!

BTW, I did only have 1/2 cup of coffee this morning. Wife was lazy and used leftover from yestereday, and that's all that was left

IrishMike · June 21, 2003 11:12PM

It doesn't necessarily mean that the coin is a dog. When I first started selling coins on ebay I had a return policy and ran into some collectors that were in my opinion overly picky, the coins were PQ for the grade and were properly described, flaws and all. After one collector returned a second coin, I asked him what the problem was. His reply was, "no problem, it just doesn't have the look that I am after". After this experience I don't mention a return policy but allow it, if there is a valid reason. To many buyers ebay is not an auction but buy on approval. There are enough buyers on ebay that you don't need a stated return policy. Afterall how many of the major auction companies allow a return privilege on their online auctions?

RKKay · June 21, 2003 11:14PM

Good points, Mike, and I agree. however, THIS seller seems hinky to me.

IrishMike · June 21, 2003 11:16PM

I'd say a tad bit defensive too.

K6AZ · June 21, 2003 11:17PM

Here is the coin in question, exactly how it appears in the auction, with the exception of the last two digits in the date and the mintmark area blacked out:

K6AZ · June 21, 2003 11:21PM

My whole point of asking was to determine what I wanted to bid. He wouldn't give me a straight answer, so I am not going above my bluesheet type bid. I do occasionally bid on no return auctions, but there is no way I am bidding strong money without a return policy.

Edited to add: After thinking about it for a while, I guess his point is to hook a buyer who doesn't ask first, bids strong money, then gets told after the fact no returns.

MadMarty · June 21, 2003 11:42PM

Are you a bit paranoid! Do you think someone here would snipe the coin from you! Maybe the coin is in a AGC holder! Just post the auction!

stujoe · June 21, 2003 11:56PM

It sounds to me like he may think you know a bit too much about coins and doesn't want you bidding.

K6AZ · June 22, 2003 12:00AM

Marty, there is intense competition for better date Morgans, which is why I don't want to post the auction.

sinin1 · June 22, 2003 12:37AM

Is it possible he has been burned in the past by some buyers who think eBay is an approval service - and these buyers are looking for coins to upgrade? The seller is not lying with the description and he has the coin?

Does your feedback indicate to him that maybe he doesn't want to deal with you?

Barry · June 22, 2003 12:39AM

Here is the same coin with the Levels adjusted in Photoshop. Maybe it will tell you what you want to know:

jamesfsm · June 22, 2003 12:47AM

What date is the coin?

And, what generation slab??

K6AZ · June 22, 2003 12:48AM

sinin- exactly what do you mean by that statement? Again, I asked a straight forward question. If he doesn't accept returns, what is the problem saying so?

Barry- I already did that in my image editor. Still not enough for me to place a stronger bid than I already have up. The images are too small.

66Tbird · June 22, 2003 12:50AM

Thx Barry, adjusting the color levels is the first thing I do for any coin(using the holder for ref.). The first part of the sellers reply seem honest, the second about getting off on a negative seems like an intimidation ploy.

Rampage · June 22, 2003 12:52AM

I did a search for your user name to see the seller of the auction and your name showed nothing has been bid on since the last 30 days. eBay could be down I guess.

But, anyway, I am curious to know who the seller is.

K6AZ · June 22, 2003 1:01AM

You won't find it under this account. I bid using my buy account.

roadrunner · June 22, 2003 1:03AM

Return policy? Once you have the coin in your hands and don't like the coin, I'm sure any attempts to reach the seller will be futile. He probably withholds feedback as well until the buyer posts his or hers.

Best to avoid sellers like this as they have only one thought in mind.

roadrunner

ARCO · June 22, 2003 1:04AM

Too funny!

<< <i>I think you would better off to pass on the coin. If you have negative feelings about the coin I think you should look somewhere else. We do appreciate your interest but we don't like staring a business relationship on a negative beginning. thanks.... >>

Interpreted: We are low life, unresponsive sellers who don't give a SH*T about the quality of our coins, our service and mostly we want to make a quick buck and don't really care to develop a loyal customer following!

Stay away! There are hundreds of other good sellers and billions of other coins.

Tyler

My Response to him would be: DUDE you are a clueless TOOL! I now know another low life seller to avoid forever.

BAJJERFAN · June 22, 2003 1:18AM

What do his feedback comments tell about him especially those from the more well known and knowledgeable Morgan Dollar eBayers?

FoundingFather · June 22, 2003 1:21AM

Going by what you presented in your initial post, I would never do business with someone like that if I could help it.

K6AZ · June 22, 2003 1:27AM

Their feedback is pretty good actually, 7300 positives from 3000 unique users, 8 neutrals and 9 negatives. Which is why I was puzzled by that response, I would think they would have given me a direct answer.

dragon · June 22, 2003 1:33AM

I just listed a PCGS coin on Ebay the other day and I got two questions asking me if I offer any type of return policy. I answered saying that although I didn't advertise any official returm policy, I would gladly take the coin back within 5 days if you didn't like it.

I don't think you should ever stick someone with a coin if they don't like it for some reason, then again, I only infrequently sell nice out coins of my own holdings so I have no problem offering a return policy.

dragon

K6AZ · June 22, 2003 1:40AM

I'm glad you brought that up Dragon because that is exactly my policy. No matter if I sell on eBay or here on the BST board. And, I have never had a coin returned.

Anyhow, as I said earlier, occasionally I will bid on a no return coin, I just won't place a bid much above greysheet bid if there is no return. If there is a return policy, and the coin looks nice, I have gone ask + 20%.

DHeath · June 22, 2003 1:46AM

I'm glad I'm not the only one who keeps the photo editor in a window on the desktop when I look at auctions.

The last step for me is to look at the negative image. Sometimes it is revealing.

As for the seller, use the FIDO principle. (Forget It, Drive On!)

null

sinin1 · June 22, 2003 1:48AM

You might have gotten them on a bad day

what is the price guide value for that coin in that grade - one higher - one lower?

Is it pretty flat in values, or does it jump really to next higher, and/or from lower grade?

Is this a $50 coin, $300, $700, $1000+

I am not trying to justify what the seller said - but if it is a dark coin, you implied you do not like dark coins in original quaetion (I think)

EVillageProwler · June 22, 2003 1:52AM

Eric,

My recommendation is to pass on this seller and move on. Coin collecting is a marathon, not a sprint. For a coin whose price is at a level where you have to be extra careful -- well, be extra careful in this case and err on the side of caution.

Good luck with your future acquisitions!

EVP

K6AZ · June 22, 2003 1:55AM

I sure don't think I implied the coin was dark, I said the pictures were dark.

This coin is - $250 down one grade, and + $500 in the next grade up.

My bid has been maxed out now, and I am sure I will be outbid. I did reply to that last email, and I will decide whether or not to up my bid depending on how they reply.

Gilbert · June 22, 2003 1:56AM

Sounds to me like the seller is saying he/she interprets any consideration of a return as negative OR you more than likely aren't going to like this specimen and the feedback indicating a return, or poor pic can be interpreted negatively.

Or, he/she may just be a jerkwad with a nice coin and poor customer relations.

Either way, I wouldn't pursue the deal unless it was something I was willing to take sight unseen (as in not return) or willing to put up with the possibility of a hassled return if that is successful.

I think he is basically saying don't bother with bidding - now you can interpret the WHY anyway you want. I wouldn't bother with this item, but that's me.

gemtone65 · June 22, 2003 2:01AM

The seller is telling you that this coin will not be satisfactory to anyone with the sophistication to ask about a return policy. Plus, he apparently didn't respond about whether he would even allow a return should you win the auction and determine you don't like the coin. If this doesn't suggest pretty clearly what you should do here, why did you bother to query the seller in the first place?

K6AZ · June 22, 2003 2:02AM

Since they haven't replied to my email, and I have been pushed to my max, I probably will move on. If this is the runaround before the sale, what can I expect afterwards?

Thanks for everyone's opinions. I'm going to let this one go, unless by some miracle my bid stands, but I doubt it.

cosmicdebris · June 22, 2003 2:04AM

K6AZ

Click on his EBay Stores Tag Icon and Go to His eBay Store you can view his return Policy there:

Customer Service & Return policy: 72 HOUR RETURN FROM TIME OF RECEIPT. MUST BE RETURNED IN ORIGINAL HOLDER.

Dog97 · June 22, 2003 2:32AM

Since you're asking how we might consider it negative, maybe he didn't take your questioning of his highly questionable pictures as a positive.

BAJJERFAN · June 22, 2003 2:44AM

As a buyer on eBay one has to CYA and just becuz the coin is in a PCGS holder don't mean it always speaks for itself. As a seller I would prefer that a potential bidder ask for a better pic rather than inquire about returns. Sort of gives an uneasy feel to the start of a new business relationship IMHO. Its like yer new bride to be on the morning of your wedding day asking who is gonna get the gifts when the divorce comes. ULP!!

K6AZ · June 22, 2003 3:13AM

But even larger, better pictures can hide defects. What am I supposed to do? Bid strong money with no mention of a return policy, get a dog of a coin, then be told their policy is no return? If you are selling a nice coin, even typical for the grade, you should have no problem answering that question directly. I find though that most sellers who are wishy-washy on the return policy sell low end coins.

Let me put this another way: My bid as it stands now is assuming no return policy and it is $480. If I knew the seller guaranteed this coin, my bid would be $550. It will be interesting to see if it gets up there without my bid.

BAJJERFAN · June 22, 2003 3:30AM

Maybe the seller is overly sensitve. I would ask for new pics first and if not satisfactory then ask about returns. If he is still hesitant then write him off or bid dog $$$ for what mite be a dog (not you Dog97) grade coin.

K6AZ · June 22, 2003 3:36AM

As I said earlier, it is too much trouble, and I am just going to let this one slide. I'll just wait until someone like PQ $s has one for sale.

cosmicdebris · June 22, 2003 3:37AM

Maybe you missed this:

Customer Service & Return policy: 72 HOUR RETURN FROM TIME OF RECEIPT. MUST BE RETURNED IN ORIGINAL HOLDER.

DCAMFranklin · June 22, 2003 3:37AM

I think he is saying he is running an auction not an approval service. At least he doesn't charge a Restocking Fee!

K6AZ · June 22, 2003 3:51AM

There is no mention of a return policy on the auction page. He can write whatever he chooses somewhere else, it doesn't apply to the auction.

What do you make out of this reply from a seller RE Return Policy?

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