I wonder how Coin Universe feels about the fact that they contribute to the scamming on eBay?

Russ · June 10, 2003 9:33AM

Granted, they don't directly do anything nefarious, nor are they to blame for all the crooks who use their price guide hyping garbage coins from garbage slabbers. But, I wonder if it bothers DH and the other executives that these slimeballs use the inflated prices in the guide to rip off the unsuspecting? Here's an example:

13 Certified Slabs PCGS ICG NTC PCI =$30,000

From the auction:

<< List value would be approximately $30,000. .Listed values are from Coin Universe ...

Start with a great complete set of the SMS (Special Mint Set ) Kennedy half dollars that were only minted for 3 years and are RARE with CAMEO contrast. You get all 3

--1965 SMS Kennedy PCI MS68 CAMEO. List $3000

--1966 SMS Kennedy PCI MS67 CAMEO. List $325

--1967 SMS Kennedy PCI MS69 DEEP CAMEO. No list value this high of grade - MS68 deep cameo lists for $7,000 but this one is a full grade higher and would probably list for at least $14,000 as list values usually at least double from grade to next higher grade. >>

Anybody with any experience knows that PCI cannot be trusted any more than ACG or NTC, but newbies get roped in by this crap all the time.

If I were the people at CU, this would bug the hell out of me. I think this should be incentive to get the prices more in line with reality, if for no other reason than to help the hobby in general and the new collector in particular.

Russ, NCNE

wingedliberty · June 10, 2003 9:48AM

It doesn't bother me. If the buyer doesn't realize that the list price on any collectible is the highest possible attained at auction or a retail environment, then I have no sympathy.
The same thing can be said for Coin World Trends, The Red Book, Numismatic Coin Market, Krause World Guides, etc.

Brian.

WWBillman · June 10, 2003 10:14AM

CU price guide only applies to PCGS certified coins sellers that associate it with other grading services slabs are being deceptive. Yes the CU price guide is inflated on some, accurate on some and low on some coin prices it is up to the consumer to differentiate between them all. You cannot categorically say no MS66FH SLQ is worth the CU price guide list of $3000.00, most probably would not be but some definitely are. If CU adjusted their price guide down to represent the common middle of the road coin what would the PQ coins be worth? The whole scale would slide with it devaluing the top end coins.

CU has no responsibility when un-associated coin dealers misrepresent their published info.

braddick · June 10, 2003 10:22AM

I've yet to see an auction like this get anything near the "$30,000.00" value the Seller is placing on it via PCGS price guides.
I bet it doesn't even get 10cents on the dollar ($3,000.00 closing price).

Collectors are not quite as dumb as many would have you believe and I see no "contribution" on CU's part. Right now, with a bit over a day to go, the Seller isn't even looking at one cent on the dollar.

DCAMFranklin · June 10, 2003 10:46AM

G - U - I - D - E, Price Guide, Collectors Universe Price Guide. It is meant to be a guide. It is meant to be a price guide for coins certified by PCGS. Most collectors do realize that the guide is for PCGS coins and is a FULL retail guide. Heck, the coins in PCGS holders don't sell for those prices on Ebay. Why should anyone bidding on Ebay believe that coins in other services' holders would sell for those prices?? They don't.

Auctions by that seller, and others just like him, have not sold for anywhere near the prices quoted in the auction titles and descriptions. So, the bidders/collectors on Ebay are much smarter than your post. There is no scam and the Ebay bidders, collectors, dealers and Members here all seem to understand that just fine.

I seem to recall you just bought your first Peace Dollar and it came in a PCI holder. You cracked it out and sent it to NGC. NGC assigned the coin the exact same grade PCI had given the coin.

Russ · June 10, 2003 10:51AM

<< I seem to recall you just bought your first Peace Dollar and it came in a PCI holder. You cracked it out and sent it to NGC. NGC assigned the coin the exact same grade PCI had given the coin. >>

Uh, DCAMFranklin, it was a 10 digit green holder from back when PCI was a real grading service, not ACG's main competition in the garbage market, as they are now.

The coins in this auction are already bid higher than they're worth, and will go much higher. The enticement is the BS claim of $30K in value, and the winning bidder will be getting ripped off.

Russ, NCNE

robertpr · June 10, 2003 12:48PM

What bugs me here is "coin universe". COIN UNIVERSE DOES NOT EXIST! It's Collector's Universe or Professional Coin Grading Service but NOT NOT NOT "Coin Universe". Thank you.

WWBillman · June 10, 2003 12:58PM

<< What bugs me here is "coin universe". COIN UNIVERSE DOES NOT EXIST! It's Collector's Universe or Professional Coin Grading Service but NOT NOT NOT "Coin Universe". Thank you. >>

GAT · June 10, 2003 1:36PM

This is one of the biggest slime ball sellers on eBay. If someone can't see throught his BS they are hopeless.

doops · June 11, 2003 1:20PM

<< This is one of the biggest slime ball sellers on eBay. If someone can't see throught his BS they are hopeless. >>

heh,another CHUMP "playing big coin dealer"......just a petty schemer with a "fancy" ebay site....
hey ! ? DCAMFRANKLIN perhaps ?
heh heh heh heh ......<-------!!!!!

Russ · June 11, 2003 1:34PM

doops,

GAT is no chump, he's a long time collector with some of the most spectacular Morgans anybody is going to see. He is also not a dealer, on eBay or otherwise. You owe him an apology that uncalled for crap you just flung at him.

Russ, NCNE

ARCO · June 11, 2003 1:36PM

When I have coin nightmares it is just like this auction. I dream that the only coins are subpar moderns being offered for ridiculous money. I always wake up in a drenching sweat, and labored breathing after such nightmares.

This is collector hell I imagine, if you end up in hell these are what the devil uses to torment your soul!

Tyler

Russ · June 11, 2003 1:39PM

Tyler,

I collect moderns and this is a nightmare auction. The winning bidder just got screwed out of over $800 for about $150 worth of mostly garbage coins.

Russ, NCNE

doops · June 11, 2003 1:51PM

<< doops,

GAT is no chump, he's a long time collector with some of the most spectacular Morgans anybody is going to see. He is also not a dealer, on eBay or otherwise. You owe him an apology that uncalled for crap you just flung at him.

Russ, NCNE >>

sorry russ, i'm a full time up front legitimate dues paid rare coin dealer for 27 yrs, on both teletypes since 1984 coin net, the old ane system (now facts/cce) since 1986, on the national show circuit since the early 80's and we all know who are "skimmers off the top", "hadnt paid their dues chumps",who all of these folks on this forum and who we see at the shows that get around scheming,nagging and bugging dealers then see what they buy and what it ends up as when ran on jokeebay..i owe NO apologies for the FACTS i know about most everyone on here that is a legit rare coin firm or a good collector, savvy investor, etc...we all share this info on the dealer networks of who the scumbags, "look-alikes", ebay punks, chumps and schemers,etc.
THIS, being a perspective MOST do not take into consideration when they hear doops flat out tell it
like it is....bottom line...
again,sorry....just flat out blunt, truthful and flat to the point....will have it NO OTHER WAY either, EVER

doops · June 11, 2003 1:57PM

oh, russ....i was NOT in any way shape or form talking of or referring to GAT and any inference that I
was has been miscontrued due to non thoroughness of making meaning out of this board...that you,
by the way began....let's be cool about it....but REAL and in REALITY at the same time,regarding what i have said in the prior post....

ohbaby · June 11, 2003 3:24PM

Why do these slime dealers always have great feedback? Maybe we are being too harsh?

How come no one slams Barry Stuppler for his auctions which always illustrate a line right out of the PCGS price guide and using it as the "list price"? Talk about misleading, his auctions sure are confusing to the average collector.

NumisEd · June 11, 2003 6:26PM

What in the he11 is Doops babbling about? Is this guy for real? 27 years in the business? Full time? With an attitude like that?

GTOster · June 11, 2003 9:47PM

Cameo ? I dont see one in the whole bunch!!! Do you?
Paul

redcents · June 11, 2003 10:02PM

I for one, speaking with the experience of a new collector was hoodwinked on several occasions by this practice. I DO NOT blame CU in any way but the unscrupulous sellers that I trusted who told me what a great deal I was getting viv a vis the price guide. I got burned on more than 1 occasion by this practice. It took me a couple of thousand $ to learn my lesson. Now, unless it's an error or rpm, e.g., I ONLY buy PCGS.

AbesNeighbor · June 11, 2003 10:26PM

This business is and always will be a "Caveat Emptor" business. Many fortunes have been made, by and Including some of the most successful dealers listed in this and other threads, have done so on 40%, 50%, and in some cases 500% mark-ups. There isn't a soul around that would give away an MS 1916 d dime they found in Aunt May's cookie jar.... when it is worth $1,000's of dollars..That is the business..

No, they would get as much as the market can bring!

Should scammers and crooks be exposed?? Absolutely! Is any dealer dishonest because he or she marks his or her inventory up 200%...NO! And Russ, we are not responsible for protecting every new collector that comes along because they pay too much.

Just because someone uses the Price guide does not make them a scammer. The price guide actually serves a useful purpose to most collectors.

Dan

barberlover · June 11, 2003 11:34PM

That last statement about dealers who mark up there coins 200 % not being dishonost is only true if the person he/ she sells the coin's to knows that before they buy and doesn't care.

I'm sure there are many coin dealers who wish the greysheet would go away so they could charge whatever they wanted to with unsuspecting suckers not having any idea of value untill they bought there over inflated retail priced coins.

I remember getting started in buying coins on my own in the 70's and how badly I got taken advantage of.
But the school of hard nocks and slimball dealers is one that most new collectors go threw.

The fact that some of the same slimball dealers I remember as a kid are still advertising in coinworld proves the old saying that "There's a sucker born every minute" is still true. I'm sure those slime's would love to know many think of them as honost.

Les

WWBillman · June 11, 2003 11:42PM

<< That last statement about dealers who mark up there coins 200 % not being dishonost is only true if the person he/ she sells the coin's to knows that before they buy and doesn't care. >>

I could not disagree with that more.

How is it the collector/buyers business what the dealer paid for a coin? What the dealer paid has nothing to do with what the coin is worth.

dorkkarl · June 11, 2003 11:44PM

i have no issue w/ this. all slabs are the same to me.

K S

DCAMFranklin · June 14, 2003 5:32AM

<< Collectors are not quite as dumb as many would have you believe and I see no "contribution" on CU's part. Right now, with a bit over a day to go, the Seller isn't even looking at one cent on the dollar. >>

Totally correct Braddick. Some people just can't help sweating the small stuff.

lordmarcovan · June 14, 2003 5:44AM

Anybody can quote any source they want, in or out of context, or make a source up, for that matter.

It's not their fault the sleazeballs quote the priceguide completely out of context. It, and Numismedia, are the only comprehensive ones out on the web in public view. And Numismedia only allows members to view the MS pricing now.

Hmm, there's a thought. If PCGS only allowed CU members to view the MS pricing, it might cut down on some of the abuse. A tiny bit, anyway.

There will always be scumbag bottom feeders who will want to compare apples and oranges. Quoting PCGS price for an ACG or NTC coin is like trying to sell a used barbecue grill while referencing the Kelley Blue Book price on a new car.

DCAMFranklin · June 14, 2003 6:01AM

<< 

<< This is one of the biggest slime ball sellers on eBay. If someone can't see throught his BS they are hopeless. >>

heh,another CHUMP "playing big coin dealer"......just a petty schemer with a "fancy" ebay site....
hey ! ? DCAMFRANKLIN perhaps ?
heh heh heh heh ......<-------!!!!! >>

Ebay PEPPERDOODLES, aka doops, the grandest dork on the Forum, I see you just received yet another Negative feedback. Wow, that is NINE in just the past 6 months. And 26 in total. You're really rackin' 'em up there!

26 Negs

Maybe it is your bubbly, stellar personality.....

doops · June 14, 2003 6:39AM

<< 

<< 

<< This is one of the biggest slime ball sellers on eBay. If someone can't see throught his BS they are hopeless. >>

heh,another CHUMP "playing big coin dealer"......just a petty schemer with a "fancy" ebay site....
hey ! ? DCAMFRANKLIN perhaps ?
heh heh heh heh ......<-------!!!!! >>

Ebay PEPPERDOODLES, aka doops, the grandest dork on the Forum, I see you just received yet another Negative feedback. Wow, that is NINE in just the past 6 months. And 26 in total. You're really rackin' 'em up there!

26 Negs

Maybe it is your bubbly, stellar personality.....

>>

heh, you IDIOT. those negs dont affect us. if you read them they are from bait and switch rookie schemers LIKE YOU in cases where we were the buyer or just flat out rotten schemers trying to dupe the ebayers or other coin dealers who want to check for crackouts and cry when they dont get one LIKE YOU or from those irresponsible ones like YOU who just flat out get buyers remorse, want to renege for NO reason at all,completely waste other's time,chumps like YOU who think they know more than a pro on something that they just dabble in when all they know is how to talk the bs part....yeah,i'll give and take negs all day long if a situation proves it warranted. ebay and all of it's jokers and bs artist LIKE YOU do not add up to a teeny nothing of our business and an ebay neg from an idiot makes me chuckle. we are self sustained within the dealer and auction community and while we enjoy what little we get to do on eaby sonny it dont make much,if any real countable difference to our bottom line. phhhhhhh!!! like we depend on ebay,yeah, right....we're in the coin business, not the con business or put up with babies business. like YOU...you are a LOSER trying to anonymously ACT important.....buzz it boy, nobody believes any of your crap, you only had these good people fooled for a short while quite a while back....to be clear about where you stand on here,anybody will amen a good prayer, even if if comes from a rotten,cheatin,sinning, schemer like YOU so dont go and pat yourself on the back for a good "fooler job" CHUMP...tell everyone on here who you are, are you afraid of something ? YES, would you be proven to be a scheming little COWARD ? YES. land on my table next to my plate ever again i'm swatting you to mush, then thumping you to the floor

DCAMFranklin · June 14, 2003 7:50AM

<< Edited : Decided I want to stay out of this mess >>

Sounds like someone who had direct dealings with PEPPERDOODLES and found out just how bad it can be. Hey doops, can you find even one dealer on the circuit that will come here and say anything good about you?

Russ · June 14, 2003 7:57AM

<< What bugs me here is "coin universe". COIN UNIVERSE DOES NOT EXIST! >>

Robert,

Actually, it does, and it is PCGS.

http://www.coinuniverse.com

Russ, NCNE

doops · June 14, 2003 8:30AM

<< Edited : Decided I want to stay out of this mess >>

is there a problem craig ?

NumisEd · June 15, 2003 1:40AM

I like doops. I like him a lot. Pepperdoodles is great. He is they only guy on this forum that makes me seem not so bad. Also, we have something in common: we are both on the same anti-schizophrenia medication and we both forget to take it sometimes. So, as far as I am concerned, super-dooper pooperdoodles is good for the forum. Doops, thanks for making me not be the biggest turd on this forum!

presleyh · June 15, 2003 3:12AM

Fortunes are made by buying low and selling high. Used cars, antiques, coins, real estate, stock. Why does anyone assume that a coin dealer should buy and sell by some magic list price? If I could buy the 33 St Gauldins for a buck and sell it for $35 million I would do it in a heartbeat! That's good business!
The problem as Russ points out is that comparing a pci coin to the value of an equal grade pcgs coin is knowingly piling up the BS! Everyone on the board knows it as well. I think some people just like to fight.

doops · June 15, 2003 4:43AM

<< I like doops. I like him a lot. Pepperdoodles is great. He is they only guy on this forum that makes me seem not so bad. Also, we have something in common: we are both on the same anti-schizophrenia medication and we both forget to take it sometimes. So, as far as I am concerned, super-dooper pooperdoodles is good for the forum. Doops, thanks for making me not be the biggest turd on this forum! >>

hey, yuze talkin to me <-@ ......say? @-> yuze talkin to me ? and just what seems to be yer prob numned? and he11 yes popperduper is cool, tells it like it is, pulls no punches, takes no prisoners but would do ANYthing to help Anyone truly needy. luv God and Jesus,am going to heaven cleansed as i can be and could care less about a bunch of anonymous opinions....so RAMBLE ON...brutha......gimme sumpin good to write to grandma about...all this stuff is chumpchamge....

barberlover · June 15, 2003 6:17AM

What determines the value of a coin besides what the seller and new buyer thinks it's worth is what the buyer could get for a given coin the day after he / she buys it.

Is anyone that sells a coin for a profit a crook ?
OF COURSE NOT !!!

But deliberatly overcharging for a coin you know is not worth 50 cents on the dollar to what your trying to sell it for in the hopes that a perspective sucker [I mean customer] doesn't know the value of a coin they are thinking of buying is a not very nice thing to do. That is certainly different then getting a raw coin that you recognize as under priced, getting it slabbed and selling it for the going market price. Les

NumisEd · June 15, 2003 9:09AM

I knew it! Doops really doesn't exist. You are another forum member who uses the whole "doops" thing to throw people off. I think that they way doops writes is fascinating. I mean, I could not make that stuff up if I tried. Keep it coming doops.......or whoever you are.

Russ · June 15, 2003 9:23AM

Eddie,

Doops is really Lucy. Or, is it that Lucy is really me? I get confused.

Russ, NCNE

barberlover · June 15, 2003 9:50AM

Russ ?

I hope your not really Lucy, cause I think she is one hot babe. Les

LucyBop · June 15, 2003 9:55AM

Yuze is a idiot scam punk wannabe, leave us pros alone......

Russ · June 15, 2003 9:58AM

<< I hope your not really Lucy, cause I think she is one hot babe >>

Les,

You don't think I'm cute, too?

Russ, NCNE

DOLLARBILL · June 15, 2003 2:21PM

<< 

<< I like doops. I like him a lot. Pepperdoodles is great. He is they only guy on this forum that makes me seem not so bad. Also, we have something in common: we are both on the same anti-schizophrenia medication and we both forget to take it sometimes. So, as far as I am concerned, super-dooper pooperdoodles is good for the forum. Doops, thanks for making me not be the biggest turd on this forum! >>

hey, yuze talkin to me <-@ ......say? @-> yuze talkin to me ? and just what seems to be yer prob numned? and he11 yes popperduper is cool, tells it like it is, pulls no punches, takes no prisoners but would do ANYthing to help Anyone truly needy. luv God and Jesus,am going to heaven cleansed as i can be and could care less about a bunch of anonymous opinions....so RAMBLE ON...brutha......gimme sumpin good to write to grandma about...all this stuff is chumpchamge.... >>

Then why don't you offer a refund policy on your overpriced and touched up pictures. Still looking for you book "enhancing coin photos".

LucyBop · June 15, 2003 2:28PM

<< Then why don't you offer a refund policy on your overpriced and touched up pictures. Still looking for you book "enhancing coin photos". >>

Doops ended a ebay auction early, gave me a killer price on a Cameo 58 Frankie, the coin looked like the photo, and he's never getting this one back!

DOLLARBILL · June 15, 2003 2:41PM

I'm happy for you. and glad to see at least 1 person happy with doops. I guess 1 out of 1,000 for him isn't bad.

silverandvinyl · June 15, 2003 7:03PM

So,is the $801 a good deal,a bad deal or a draw?

Russ · June 16, 2003 1:09AM

<< So,is the $801 a good deal,a bad deal or a draw? >>

It comes with a large jar of Vaseline.

Russ, NCNE

braddick · June 16, 2003 3:33AM

<< I'm happy for you. and glad to see at least 1 person happy with doops. I guess 1 out of 1,000 for him isn't bad. >>

Well, make that "two out of a thousand" because my 1953 PCGS PR66 Franklin was all of the picture and thensome. No hairlines, spots (that plague these early 50's proofs-) or other distractions. FAST, secure shipping too.

Other than his passion and enthusiasm (!) in expressing himself on these forums, what is your issue with him?

DCAMFranklin · June 16, 2003 3:51AM

Braddick- Do you have a problem with someone who sells coins on Ebay, with NO mention of how returns are to be treated, yet refuses to provide a refund when a buyer requests it? Do you have a problem with the same seller buying proof sets and coins on Ebay, often utilizing the Buy It Now feature withOUT contacting the seller about a return privilege, who upon receiving the coins or proof sets insisting upon a full refund? If the seller tries to insist the coins were sold AT AUCTION and so a refund is not offered, as does the party in question, then this party will place very late night phone calls with threats of bodily harm, postal fraud complaints, Attorney General complaints and drunken, abusive foul-mouthed language?? Threats of retaliation through the use of multiple Ebay buying ID's?? We're talking of plenty of such occassions. If fact some sellers feel compelled to provide positive feedback or the retaliation will begin. Contact his Negative feedbacks. Just read the horror stories they will provide.

Russ · June 16, 2003 3:58AM

<< then this party will place very late night phone calls with threats of bodily harm, postal fraud complaints, Attorney General complaints and drunken, abusive foul-mouthed language?? Threats of retaliation through the use of multiple Ebay buying ID's?? We're talking of plenty of such occassions. >>

And of course, DCAMFranklin, you would have proof of those allegations. Right? I sure hope so, since otherwise it would be slander under any interpretation of the law.

Russ, NCNE

DCAMFranklin · June 16, 2003 4:02AM

Sure do. Matter of fact DollarBill is just one of many. Search the Negative feedback he has submitted. It speaks of the postal fraud.

braddick · June 16, 2003 4:19AM

DCAM- I try not to wear the blinders when I bid/win from Sellers off of eBay. If there is wrong doing toward another, even though I haven't been directly effected by the actions, I attempt to avoid that Seller. Case in point: K6AZ. His difficulties with a couple of Sellers on eBay is confirmed via strong evidence and although I have dealt with the Sellers before, successfully, I have added them to my "don't bid" list because of what they've done to him.

Pepperdoodles doesn't fall into that catagory because it appears, even after researching his feedbacks and the buyer's feedbacks, it is based more on speculation and "bad blood"-(feedback wars), than that of wrong doing or fraudulent activity.

doops · June 16, 2003 6:59AM

bunch of nutcases is what we have here all the while i think what i always thought
"the lord is my shepherd, i shall not want. even though this particular valley is wreaked with havock,lies,
deception and all sorts of slanderous glorp coming from the chumpies that are on here i still fear NO evil and if given the opportunity would take my rod and staff and beat the beJesus out of a few on here who are truly deserved of a good stoning and whipping......fair and square...

DanC · June 16, 2003 5:19PM

<< otherwise it would be slander under any interpretation of the law >>

Actually - it's libel.

<----(Doesn't that look stupid at the end of a post?)

I wonder how Coin Universe feels about the fact that they contribute to the scamming on eBay?

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