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Ethical Dilemma. HELP!!!
Shamika
Posts: 18,785 ✭✭✭✭
Okay guys and girls, I need your help with regards to an ethical dilemma.
Last week, I purchased a 1936-D PCGS MS66 Buffalo nickel for $110 from a MAJOR internet coin dealer/auction house that for the sake of this thread we will call "Hermitage". This coin was purchased from their regular inventory so no bidding was necessary. Anyone familiar with this series will immediately recognize that the price is more inline with an MS65, NOT an MS66. An MS66 should retail for $200-$240.
Anyway, I received an email from "Hermitage" yesterday regarding my recent purchase with a request to contact them as soon as possible. Clearly, they have discovered their error in pricing this coin. My question is this: assuming they will try to renege on my purchase, should I make a big stink about it and demand they honor the original price that they charged me?
Although none of the following information should be relevant, I'm going to include it since most dealers would take it under consideration:
1. I have purchased ~$15,000 in coins from "Hermitage" in the past three years. I realize this doesn't make me a major customer, but it's not chump change for me.
2. The coin was clearly labeled MS66 in the heading of their inventory and was photographed as such.
3. I plan on putting the coin in my permanent collection per the want list that I had on file with "Hermitage". I DID NOT buy this coin planning to resell it at the expense of "Hermitage".
Also, before you answer, consider this: what do you think "Hermitage" would have done if they had mistakenly priced the coin as MS67 and I had paid for it without complaint? Would they contact me informing that they had made a mistake and would reimburse me the difference?
Generally, I'm a very nice guy. I don't complain when coins received are less than expected. If I have to wait a little longer than usual, I'm patient. And I'll gladly pay a premium for PQ coins. I just feel that when "Hermitage" accepted my credit card and sent an email thanking me for my recent purchase, the deal was done.
What do you think?
Last week, I purchased a 1936-D PCGS MS66 Buffalo nickel for $110 from a MAJOR internet coin dealer/auction house that for the sake of this thread we will call "Hermitage". This coin was purchased from their regular inventory so no bidding was necessary. Anyone familiar with this series will immediately recognize that the price is more inline with an MS65, NOT an MS66. An MS66 should retail for $200-$240.
Anyway, I received an email from "Hermitage" yesterday regarding my recent purchase with a request to contact them as soon as possible. Clearly, they have discovered their error in pricing this coin. My question is this: assuming they will try to renege on my purchase, should I make a big stink about it and demand they honor the original price that they charged me?
Although none of the following information should be relevant, I'm going to include it since most dealers would take it under consideration:
1. I have purchased ~$15,000 in coins from "Hermitage" in the past three years. I realize this doesn't make me a major customer, but it's not chump change for me.
2. The coin was clearly labeled MS66 in the heading of their inventory and was photographed as such.
3. I plan on putting the coin in my permanent collection per the want list that I had on file with "Hermitage". I DID NOT buy this coin planning to resell it at the expense of "Hermitage".
Also, before you answer, consider this: what do you think "Hermitage" would have done if they had mistakenly priced the coin as MS67 and I had paid for it without complaint? Would they contact me informing that they had made a mistake and would reimburse me the difference?
Generally, I'm a very nice guy. I don't complain when coins received are less than expected. If I have to wait a little longer than usual, I'm patient. And I'll gladly pay a premium for PQ coins. I just feel that when "Hermitage" accepted my credit card and sent an email thanking me for my recent purchase, the deal was done.
What do you think?
Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
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J&J Coins
website
Wild Ebay Toners for sale
The big O
You might get more info to base your decision on.
Russ, NCNE
taking advantage of an honest mistake. mdwoods
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
Thomas Paine
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Say, a common date Morgan in 63, PCGS/NGC. Make them throw you a $30 bone. Fair is fair, but there is no Santa in numismatics.
Brian.
edited to say: oops, posted too slowly
Aldous Huxley
Yabba dabba doo.
Fred Flintstone
Other members have done the same, and have elicited rebuke for naming names and taking their petty squabbles public.
Based on past threads there are two lines of opinion:
One--the dealer should give the customer the price break to keep him happy. But that is really the seller's business decision to make.
Two--if the seller made a mistake and the buyer knew or should have known that the price was wrong, the seller has a right to correct the price. The customer looses nothing since he is not out any money. This assumes that the buyer is not another dealer who has relied on the price to confirm a resale to his own customer at a discount to market based upon his having bought at a discount.
I personally belive the second approach is correct. You have lost nothing if the seller corrects his error and quotes you the correct price. Your only "loss" in that case is the opportunity to take advantage of the seller's mistake and thereby inflict an economic loss on him. If you do not like the coin at the correct price, simply pass on it. That is the ethical thing to do.
CG
Shamika, I think your purchase represents the perfect "cherry pick"!
Heritage is a fine firm despite their many screwups and I have no doubt they will make the situation right.
<< <i>Heritage is a fine firm despite their many screwups and I have no doubt they will make the situation right. >>
You mean Hermitage?
J&J, kudos to you. That's the way a retail transaction should be handled. I bet that your customer will be a lifetime customer and you will more than recover your loss on that coin.
Russ, all that I can say to your statement is "kiss my fat a$$"
<< <i>Russ, all that I can say to your statement is "kiss my fat a$$" >>
Uh Oh! NumisEd is on the rampage!
Russ, NCNE
How's that for ethics?
CoinPeople.com || CoinWiki.com || NumisLinks.com
<< <i>How's that for ethics? >>
Love it when the Dog starts barking!
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<< <i>If this multi-million dollar company had nit-picked me over $100 and I had done $15k worth of business with them I would send the damn thing back with a note telling them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine and quit doing business with them.
How's that for ethics? >>
Dog, YOU DA MAN! errh...DA DOG!
At the risk of upsetting you and many of the other non-dealers here.....
Your thread title made note of an "ethical dilemma". Ethically, for me, it is a no-brainer. Considering the coin and the grade, it was an obvious pricing error. I would not have purchased that coin at that price, knowing about the mistake. And, if I were unaware of such an error at the time of the purchase and later discovered it, I would notify the seller. I believe that is the "ethical" thing to do.
I am not just blowing smoke here, either - I have experienced this more than once and I have let the seller (whether a collector or a dealer) know each time. And, I felt great about it, too.
You asked
<< <i>what do you think "Hermitage" would have done if they had mistakenly priced the coin as MS67 and I had paid for it without complaint? Would they contact me informing that they had made a mistake and would reimburse me the difference >>
I would hope and expect that you would be notified in such a case, as again, that would be the "ethical" thing to do.
Ask yourself: 1) how you would feel and what you would do if the roles were reversed; 2) how you would feel and what you would do if the coin had mistakenly been priced as an MS67 and you were not aware of the error until later and 3) whether the money you might save on this coin is worth it, considering all of the circumstances. Hopefully, you will work things out and be at peace with your decision.
"You've already made a big stink over it by going public with it on this board before you even talked to the seller... but you did not give them that chance before airing this on the board."
With regards to CalGold's comments, I have a confession to make. I already tried to contact this dealer. I was told by the person who asked me to contact her that I now needed to speak to the buyer. After being put on hold for several minutes (while I'm at work mind you), I was informed that the buyer was busy and that I should call back in 30 minutes. As I have a very long commute and would not be able to get home before they closed, I called them a half hour later. This time I was told that the person I needed to speak with had left for the day (4:20 P.M).
Being quite upset at the run around and not being offered help by anyone else as I requested, I decided to take this issue up with The Forum.
I am willing to consider creative alternatives, but considering the amount of business I've given this dealer and the relatively paultry sum for this item, I expect they honor the deal.
Again, do you think they would reimburse me if I knowingly overpaid for the item?
i kinda think you blew the oppurtunity for some good, unbiased feedback when you wimped out with the "Hermitage" pseudonym. it only invites personality into the discussion. with all that said, it is rightfully a dilemma. do the right thing.
al h.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
WHAT?? They tell you to contact them and when you do they don't want to talk to you?
Makes a stronger case for sending I the damn thing back with a note telling them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine and quit doing business with them.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
they caught the mistake, end of story. Would you expect a department store
to honor a newspaper sale if a typo had items for $9.99 instead of $99.99? (I
know that in this case, it was all internal to the company, but the same concept
applies) Email them back (so you don't need to worry about phone waits) tell them
that you want to clear up the confusion VIA EMAIL (so you still don't have to worry
about phone waits) and then see what they are willing to do.
You know the way that you would want to be treated if you had made a mistake;
don't try to rationalize a justification that you are being cheated.
You've actually stirred a good question that has had lots of really thoughtful responses. These types of situations always make me review my own feelings on the subject of relationships in the coin world.
I think the key here seems to be one of relationships. Relationships among coin folks (dealers, buyers, collectors, etc.) are sometimes made over long periods of time and are often worth preserving. I've certainly made mistakes on pricing and have always examined my relationship with the buyer to guide me through the solution. On the "other side of the coin", I look to my relationship with the seller to help me understand how I react when I overpay or underpay for a coin by mistake.
WHAT TO DO
Well its not worth the hassle and I settled on a price of $75.00 for which they completed the transaction. Positive feedback was left by both parties.
Was that right of R&I Coins?
I don't think so but I also do not think it would have been right of me to hold them to a mistake.
So take from that experience what ever you want to make your decision.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
<< <i>Hermitage? Isn't that a fancy hotel/restaurant in Manhattan or Beverly Hills?
No, it's a museum in St. Petersburg (no, not Florida!)
And NumisEd said:
Do you want to hear the real irony of this whole story?? This is funny. Send that SAME EXACT coin back to PCGS 2, 3 even 4 times.........you will get an MS-65, a 66, a 65 and a 64. What does it really matter? The coin is just a high end uncirculated Buffalo nickel. Let it go.
Best comment I've read all day!