Article about low POP commons

mrc32 · May 16, 2003 8:09AM

There is an article in the new Beckett Vintage Magazine about the low POP / high Price issue.

They pick the most hard to find low POP commons for each set:

1952 Topps: Hermsn Wehmeier
1954 Topps: Ben Wade (I personally beleive the Buster Mills is harder)
1955 Topps: Art Fowler
1956 Topps: Willaim Harridge
1957 Topps: Mike Garcia
1958 Topps: John Roseboro
1959 Topps: Phillies Team
1962 Topps: Bill SKowron
1963 Topps: Bob Allison
1965 Topps: Tony Oliva
1968 Topps: John Donaldson
1969 Topps: Mike Ferraro (but the article starts out talking about the Mike Shannon issue)

I just thought this might be a good issue to debate.

mcastaldi · May 16, 2003 8:33AM

My question would be on what frame of reference did they base their decisions. I would have to believe that there isn't a large enough pool of BGS/BVG-graded cards from these issues to be truly accurate.

I'd be curious to see if they based their conclusions on anything other than subjective criteria.

Mike

acowa · May 16, 2003 8:40AM

mrc32,

<I personally believe the Buster Mills is harder>

I agree 100%...but it's close. Woodling is a beast as well. It's not like there's a ton of any of these cards floating around.

Regards,

Alan

toppsgun · May 16, 2003 8:59AM

Leave it to a Beckett publication to get it wrong.

In 1959, the Phillies team is a tough card, but first of all, it's not a common. Second it's not even the toughest card in the low number series. That honor goes to #11-Billly Hunter, followed by #104-Del Rice. I can name a half dozen other tougher cards in '59 (105-Walls, 92-Philley, 59-Noren, 90-Skowron, 33-Fitzgerald & 15-Drott).

In 1963, Beckett is waaaaaaaaay off. Try finding these puppies in an 8:

14 Ramos
22 Simmons
34 Schofield
40 Power
50 Pierce
61 Bowman
84 Kline
89 Stigman
114 Osinski
328 Williams, D.

And in 1965, everyone on this board must know that #22-Charlie Smith is the lowest pop card in that set (3 PSA 8's and no 9's).

As for most of what leaks out of Dallas and the Beckett complex, this is just more inaccurate trash.

toppsgun · May 16, 2003 9:06AM

I noticed they left out 1967. Now that might be a good place to start a discussion.

Of those who are near the top, I'm pretty sure the "last card" is a different one for all. Any votes for:

2 - Hamilton
3 - Sims
41- Horner
492-Pirates Team

mrc32 · May 16, 2003 9:28AM

<<I'd be curious to see if they based their conclusions on anything other than subjective criteria.>>

I don't think it was based on anything other than people's views. The writer notes that he took opinions from dealers at shows. The list is basically his view on tough to find cards in high grade.

<<I would have to believe that there isn't a large enough pool of BGS/BVG-graded cards from these issues to be truly accurate. >>
They were not just talking about Beckett graded cards. The picture even is of a PSA 9 1969 Shannon.

<<Woodling is a beast as well>>
I never had much trouble with Woodling. I got him early on in my set build so I guess I never had to struggle with him. But Buster Mills took me years to get with decent centering and without emptying my wallet.

<<In 1959, the Phillies team is a tough card, but first of all, it's not a common.>>
Sorry, I guess thier article is based off of tough commons and SEMI-star cards.

The article is written by Reid Creager, who is a freelance writer from Detroit.

I think it was pretty good. With the set registry's being so popular I am surprised more articles have not been written about them and the trials and tribulations in that collecting niche.

acowa · May 16, 2003 9:29AM

Mike,

I think that the 1967 Demeter high # is tough as well.

Regards,

Alan

acowa · May 16, 2003 9:31AM

The 1961 guys might want to add:

306 WS Virdon
310 WS Face
541 Gibbon
559 Gentile
561 Cerv

I think I got the #'s right

Regards,

Alan

qualitycards · May 16, 2003 9:57AM

1965 Topps: Tony Oliva
Whats Tony Oliva doing in this group? He's not a common, he lists in the SMR for $50 for a PSA-8, and theres a bunch of real commons w/ less cards graded, Charlie Smith Wade & Don Blasingame, Sonny Siebert etc... jay

thesplendidsplinter · May 16, 2003 10:10AM

One of my favorite stories on Ebay is when a Ben Wade came up for auction in PSA 7 & the seller also had the Lenhardt in PSA 7 (which is very tough) I asked him to stop the auction & I would give him $100 total for both of them. To my amazement, he said yes. I could not get him the $100 fast enough. Ben Wade was coming to me!! Mills is very tough!! BUT, I have yet to even SEE a Woodling. I thought it was one of the those myth cards. At the time Morrie Martin was tough too and I got that one for $15. Moral of the story, timing & patience is everything.

Now Alan, about that Sims......................

jaxxr · May 16, 2003 10:14AM

Almost any story which promotes graded cards is somewhat helpfull, regardless of complete / incomplete data or accuracy. Beckett has in the past had an article on the Pop. of the 15 top stars from the 1957 BB set. Thay used PSA, SGC, as well as their own BGS/BVG population data.

But hey, 1956 Will Harridge a common ? It's not only a leauge president but it's the FIRST card in the set. I think we all know about # 1 from any vintage set and the condition problems within. The raw value is far above "common" status in their own price guide. This must be considered an oversight at the least .

Basilone · May 16, 2003 1:08PM

I agree with jaxxr...that article regarding vintage graded (outside of an SCD editiorial) is good for all of us. You never know....a collector might take a look at those commons they have in binders and submit them to be graded.

John

pc · May 17, 2003 11:34PM

since 1966 wasn't included here are the toughest
psa 8s.(#406 is THE SINGLE RAREST)
216 AL BATTING LEADERS
224 AL PITCHING LEADERS
292 JIM COKER
406 JOE JAY

mikeschmidt · May 18, 2003 5:32AM

Why leave out 1955 Bowman?

There are NUMEROUS cards in that set that have PSA 8 populations of five or less. Monster #232 Birdie Tebbets has only two cards graded PSA 8 NM/MT, with one example owned by our very own Ron Hobbs. Al Dark, Charlie Grimm, Tommy Byrne and Albert B. Schroll are also all monsters.

ejguru · May 18, 2003 9:14PM

The 1967 Hoerner 9 I got was straight from a cello pack I bought last year. It is probably the nicest card I own from that year and actually thought it might have gemmed. Have to agree that Hamilton and Sims are just as tough. Sometimes I think the only way to stumble on these 3 are cello packs. I always seem to see only Series I packs offered on Ebay--pay and pray!

1968 Donaldson? Not nearly as tough as several others. Sammy Ellis, Rico Carty, Sens RC, Lanier, and a few others.

Scoop · May 19, 2003 2:29AM

For 1956's, I would pick #121 Pirates Team, #100 Orioles Team, and #268 Mitchell as the toughest, especially in 8 or better.

helionaut · May 19, 2003 7:11AM

Seeing an article like that, plus they've mentioned a couple times recently that high-grade commons draw big dollars as well, I've got to think BGS is going to come out with their own registry. In fact, I'm surprised they've taken so long with it.

FB · May 27, 2003 10:13PM

Don't see 72 Topps listed yet - but I'd have to go with:

178--------PAUL SCHAAL IA
518--------WAYNE GARRETT
409--------FRANK BAKER
670--------KEN HOLTZMAN
443--------KEN HENDERSON

As being the 5 most difficult cards in the set.

mcastaldi · May 28, 2003 11:47AM

Frank> Those are probably the five toughest, but right behind them are
655 - Jerry Grote
627 - Moe Drabowski
32 - Cleon Jones IA
40 - Bob Barton IA
489 - Expos RC

I never cry when I pay a lot for a tough card. . .I only cry when I pay too much for an easy card.

Mike

gemint · May 28, 2003 12:33PM

GATOR5 · May 28, 2003 1:54PM

Gem

Not if your talking to Mike

I think you just picked up a tough 69 for 9.99. You boys need to quit emailing
each other

gemint · May 28, 2003 3:18PM

Gator, which '69 would that be?

GATOR5 · May 28, 2003 4:05PM

Gem,

I think it was the Ribant???

gemint · May 29, 2003 12:59AM

Ah yes. Well that one has 18 8s and 3 9s which puts it in the middle of the pack as far as difficulty.

GATOR5 · May 29, 2003 1:15AM

Gem,

Now I don't feel so bad for I had it down on my sheet as 12-3...

jackstraw · May 29, 2003 12:57PM

1981 Topps Fred Lynn

gator psa 9's 2
jack psa 9's 0

GATOR5 · May 29, 2003 1:30PM

Straw,

Whats up buddy. I have a real high end palmer that I'll let you have for 15.00 its a freak
of nature.

As for the lynn I didn't say to exhale so lets not here anything about it hahaha. For you
might make some folks stir crazy trying to find one including yourself

Article about low POP commons

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