Update: PCGS I want to hear about quality control......

VonZipper · March 5, 2003 1:33AM

I don't think I can read another post on grading and crossovers and want to hear if anything is being done about tighter quality control.For example fingerprints, scratches, food, hair, snot etc. One can say these came in like this but I'm sure most of us would not knowingly send a valued coin in with these problems. I was going thru some of my Kennedy's and found pieces of broken plastic sealed inside on the reverse of the coin right in the middle of it. Granted mistakes happen and someone is supposed to double check after being slabbed so are they still double checking? Also would be nice if you could give some new pictures of the whole grading process and procedures on your website, what with digital cameras now. The few pictures you have look 15 years old.Sorry to keep ranting. A response would be appreciated.

Have a great day.

VonZipper · March 5, 2003 9:39AM

ttt

till someone responds- might takes months but I got time.

littlewicher · March 5, 2003 9:42AM

Another thing is coins that are slabbed rotated!! Yet when you go to complain, they basically tell you to do the reholder service at an extra $5. IT'S COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS! It's like duh here!!! You're paying them to do a service, and do the service right!

VonZipper · March 5, 2003 9:49AM

I agree - I think that any debris encapsulated with the coin should be fixed at no charge except for my cost of shipping coin back. They are supposed to have someone double check the grade and the holder after its sealed, so how can they miss these objects?

airplanenut · March 5, 2003 9:53AM

<< I agree - I think that any debris encapsulated with the coin should be fixed at no charge except for my cost of shipping coin back. They are supposed to have someone double check the grade and the holder after its sealed, so how can they miss these objects? >>

You paid shipping the first time, and it was supposed to be RIGHT... their mistake, I think they should take a hit on ALL costs... including round-trip shipping

VonZipper · March 5, 2003 9:56AM

Good point airplanenut, and what also isn't considered the time to deal with it and what if it's a dealer's coin and he has his money tied up for long period of time etc.

littlewicher · March 5, 2003 10:00AM

NGC has excellent customer service. I think we should all boycott PCGS, and go to NGC! I sent PCGS customer service an email about a coin about three months ago, and requested that they responded to me about a coin that I got. Well, three months later, I still haven't got a letter back! That's PCGS customer service for you!

Coppernicus · March 5, 2003 10:00AM

How come if the slab is inspected before shipping, I get these "slanted" (not rotated) coins. Trying for some kind of wierd "3-d effect?"

littlewicher · March 5, 2003 10:02AM

Yeah, I have a proof sacajawea dollar like that. Everytime I try to take a picture of it, the coin looks stupid. That really takes away from the value.

VonZipper · March 5, 2003 10:02AM

<How come if the slab is inspected before shipping, I get these "slanted" (not rotated) coins. Trying for some kind of wierd "3-d effect?">

I have some of those too. I don't like that either.

mdwoods · March 5, 2003 10:06AM

"I get these "slanted" (not rotated) coins." " Yeah, I have a proof sacajawea dollar like that. Everytime I try to take a picture of it, the coin looks stupid"

Not excusing this, but I have to tilt some coins to get the best picture. Then I use Photoshop to stretch it back out into a perfect (nearly) circle.

littlewicher · March 5, 2003 10:08AM

When the slab tilts with it, it looks okay, though. It's freaky to look at a coin that's tilted, and the slab is upright.

prooflike · March 5, 2003 10:09AM

Reholdering can be scary also... get the coin straightened out with added fingerprints or food!

Many of these 'contaminant' complaints are justified and yes, the consumers are paying for a service. If the contractor does not provide an acceptable product or service and refuses to improve, the only solution is go elsewhere.

The fingerprint, food, etc. issues were brought up many moons ago... if these issues still persist, I guess PCGS is making a statement regarding these issues.

Bear · March 5, 2003 10:09AM

Actually, the foreign objects you find inside the slab is rather like a prize.

It is something like what you get in a box of Cracker Jacks.

Russ · March 5, 2003 10:10AM

<< Yeah, I have a proof sacajawea dollar like that. Everytime I try to take a picture of it, the coin looks stupid. >>

That has nothing to do with the positioning of the coin in the slab. Bwuahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!

Russ, NCNE

VonZipper · March 5, 2003 10:40AM

Russ

NumisEd · March 5, 2003 11:02AM

Russ, finally you agree with me. Welcome to the BrightSide.

clackamas · March 5, 2003 3:02PM

Fingerprints are still a problem. I have recvd back 6 coins in the last month with greasy prints.

ponzi187 · March 5, 2003 3:19PM

I sent by first batch of coins in 6 weeks ago and out of 10 coins 2 were slanted in their holders and two others had some kind of odd moisture trapped in the slab!

GRANDAM · March 5, 2003 4:10PM

FYI,

The rotated coin problem is easy to fix. Hold the holder firmly and tap on the seam in the direction you want the coin to rotate. 99% of the time you can reposition the coin to the correct position.

Hope this helps,

GrandAm

Bulldog · March 6, 2003 4:13AM

TTT

VonZipper · March 6, 2003 8:07AM

Thanks bulldog, ttt

bulloncoins · March 6, 2003 8:14AM

My 1999 ms69 looks like someone sneezed coffee and cream all over it. At least six spots. This is the first coin I will replace when the set is full.

jeffnpcb · March 6, 2003 8:20AM

Bears last one had a nice piece of jelly donut, but he couldn't find a straw thin enough to suck it out!

Over the past few days, some of the coins shown with the finger prints should be removed and checked against the graders in house. They should make an apology and correct the situation at a percentage of the ruin of the coin. Remember if they take the print off it would be BB'd as cleaned or whizzed at that point!!!

VonZipper · March 11, 2003 5:44AM

TTT

VonZipper · March 12, 2003 11:47PM

ttt

Aaron04 · March 13, 2003 1:34AM

I have to agree about coins being rotated.Thats just total BS service IMO

homerunhall · March 13, 2003 6:35AM

Von Zipper...

I have a big concern with quality control too. If you have a problem with pieces of plastic, snot, or whatever, I would consider it a personal favor if you could contact Sandy Locker and then send the coin to me personally. I promise I will raise Hell over the issue.

As to fingerprints, that's a more complex issue, and I plan to talk about ti next Tuesday.

David Hall

VonZipper · July 7, 2003 11:21PM

Well I sent in 6 slabs that had problems and just got them back last week after a little more than 3 months. Four were reslabbed and 2 were'nt, the 2 were the ones that I thought really needed reholdering due to what appears to be pressure placed on the side of the coin due to it being slanted in the holder. The other is a ms68 lincoln that has little silver bubbles at the bottom front and top reverse with a liquid like streaks near the bubbles. It could be that the copper plating did not take in these areas, not sure but should the coin make ms68 if this is the case? I was a little confused why no comments were included or explantions why they were not at least reslabbed. I have had it with PCGS and service to the customer. I will no longer post suggestions in the Q&A forum trying to help improve the situations. It's apparent that no one cares about small collector's and good idea's fall on deaf ears all the way to the top. People are just waisting most of their time with the Q&A, exp. responses (Great idea I'll suggest it at the next meeting, or I'll look into it good idea) with nothing ever happening with it again. Also alot of the questions that are answered are repeated over and over and questions that are picked are ones that can be found on the website. I see recently some posts that show that employees and presidents don't know what they charge for services, that says alot about a company. Anyway I will give them credit for not charging for the reslabs and shipping back and the free pcgs box that rattles. I was told that the lincoln might have to go to the guarantee review service and said fine but please let me know before charging me, but it never went and it could have at least been reholdered. And no I am not going to PM or email anyone about this anymore, I already paid and insured to ship them back for problems that never should have happened in the first place, I am through talking with these people and waisting my time. Thanks

NumisEd · July 8, 2003 12:10AM

Whao, whao....wait just a minute! I think that VonZipper and many others here on the forum are being too hard on PCGS. Their business is booming and the submission volume is greater than ever. They have tried to hire graders by placing an ad in Coin World that states a salary of $240,000. That shows that they really want to hire the best (even though HRH knows the only 7 qualified graders in the world).

So, let's just see you try to grade thousands of coins a day. Now, close your eyes.... Imagine a conveyor belt that never seems to stop. The grading room supervisor slowly but surely cranking up the speed of the conveyor as the mailman delivers more and more coins for grading. It's madness! I think that it's completely reasonable and acceptable that some foreign materials (i.e. food, hair, car keys, insects, small woodland creatures, bodily fluids, etc) can accidentally be trapped within some slabs. Let's see YOU try to eat a breakfast bagel while slabbing an PR-69 UCAM 1971 Roosevelt dime.

The graders at PCGS are doing there best, so you should just back off. Besides, what do you expect for the meager $30 slabbing fee?

bigindie · July 8, 2003 12:22AM

<< Whao, whao....wait just a minute! I think that VonZipper and many others here on the forum are being too hard on PCGS. Their business is booming and the submission volume is greater than ever. They have tried to hire graders by placing an ad in Coin World that states a salary of $240,000. That shows that they really want to hire the best (even though HRH knows the only 7 qualified graders in the world).

So, let's just see you try to grade thousands of coins a day. Now, close your eyes.... Imagine a conveyor belt that never seems to stop. The grading room supervisor slowly but surely cranking up the speed of the conveyor as the mailman delivers more and more coins for grading. It's madness! I think that it's completely reasonable and acceptable that some foreign materials (i.e. food, hair, car keys, insects, small woodland creatures, bodily fluids, etc) can accidentally be trapped within some slabs. Let's see YOU try to eat a breakfast bagel while slabbing an PR-69 UCAM 1971 Roosevelt dime.

The graders at PCGS are doing there best, so you should just back off. Besides, what do you expect for the meager $30 slabbing fee? >>

You made some good points, Ed. VonZipper, I too think you might be acting a little harshly. You posted this thread and kept it at the top until you could get a response from PCGS. You got what I consider to be a genuinely sympathetic response from Homerun Hall with an easy solution to the problem. And what do you do? You don't thank him but politely decline the offer, you use the opportunity to yell at the guy. If you weren't interested in the solution, what was the point of this thread?

topstuf · July 8, 2003 12:27AM

Ever see the "I Love Lucy" episode with the chocolates?

Maybe Lucy and Ethel are on the job.

kranky · July 8, 2003 12:28AM

bigindie, NumisEd often forgets to put a wink emoticon in his posts when he's being sarcastic.

bigindie · July 8, 2003 12:36AM

<< bigindie, NumisEd often forgets to put a wink emoticon in his posts when he's being sarcastic. >>

Well, I still agree -- all except the breakast bagel part. That's unacceptable in my book.

joejeweler · July 8, 2003 12:46AM

Geeze........whatever happened to the "crazy" idea in business that when you're overloaded with work you simply post notice that you will not be able to accept ANY new work until you're caught up!

.......continueing to accept new submissions under the current backlog is NOT a good business practice! Sure.....PCGS does not want to lose the potential business down the line. But at some point it has to happen anyway. Are submitters expected to wait 4-5-or 6 months out? A year maybe?

And what is all the bad publicity costing PCGS along the way? I'd surmise the majority of the quality control issues most likely have the overloaded situation as a direct cause. Alleviate the backlog thru a temporary moritorium on submissions and a lot of the stress and problems would disappear!

........imagine the "good" news the graders might hear that until the turnaround times are down to 3 weeks the only work load they'll have to contend with is what is currently "in-house"!

.......YIPPEE!!!!!!

JoshL · July 8, 2003 12:59AM

Quote "So, let's just see you try to grade thousands of coins a day. Now, close your eyes.... Imagine a conveyor belt that never seems to stop. The grading room supervisor slowly but surely cranking up the speed of the conveyor as the mailman delivers more and more coins for grading. It's madness! I think that it's completely reasonable and acceptable that some foreign materials (i.e. food, hair, car keys, insects, small woodland creatures, bodily fluids, etc) can accidentally be trapped within some slabs. Let's see YOU try to eat a breakfast bagel while slabbing an PR-69 UCAM 1971 Roosevelt dime.

The graders at PCGS are doing there best, so you should just back off. Besides, what do you expect for the meager $30 slabbing fee?
"

I TRULY hope that you are being sarcastic here? You are paying for something and not getting it...I don't care how many coins go through there a day. There is no excuse for this stuff.

JoshL · July 8, 2003 1:00AM

So where is the responce from PCGS? This thread has been up for awhile...I didn't see a response yet?

kranky · July 8, 2003 1:18AM

<< So where is the responce from PCGS? This thread has been up for awhile...I didn't see a response yet? >>

David Hall posted to the thread on March 13.

kingmatt · July 8, 2003 1:58AM

I submitted a 1964 AH Kennedy last year. It came back as PR-64 with a big old fingerprint on the obverse. I called and complained, but was told that it was there when they received it. It just became "more noticable" after it was slabbed. That was the first time I ever submitted and was really shot down but the whole thing. That coin should have been at least a 67 or 68. Bottom line ... it wasn't their fault and they wouldn't do anything about it. Talk about disappointing the small time collector.

NumisEd · July 8, 2003 2:10AM

Bear · July 8, 2003 2:11AM

I hate to be a party pooper, but I have had at least 300 coins graded by PCGS

within the past 6 years. While I have hade 2-3 coins rotated, I have never received one back

with foreign substances in holder, finger prints or tilted coins. Perhaps I have been lucky ,or PCGS

just doesnt with to make the little bear angry.

bigindie · July 8, 2003 3:15AM

<< Geeze........whatever happened to the "crazy" idea in business that when you're overloaded with work you simply post notice that you will not be able to accept ANY new work until you're caught up!

.......continueing to accept new submissions under the current backlog is NOT a good business practice! Sure.....PCGS does not want to lose the potential business down the line. But at some point it has to happen anyway. Are submitters expected to wait 4-5-or 6 months out? A year maybe?

And what is all the bad publicity costing PCGS along the way? I'd surmise the majority of the quality control issues most likely have the overloaded situation as a direct cause. Alleviate the backlog thru a temporary moritorium on submissions and a lot of the stress and problems would disappear!

........imagine the "good" news the graders might hear that until the turnaround times are down to 3 weeks the only work load they'll have to contend with is what is currently "in-house"!

.......YIPPEE!!!!!! >>

If they put a moritorium on new submissions, then how many people would be pissing and moaning about that. I agree that running the Gold Membership deal with the auction catalog wasn't a very smart idea, but the problem with turnaround times existed before that. It just got a lot worse. The price for being the best in the business is that you sometimes get more business than you can handle. The more business you get, the more you have to push out the door which can creat CQ issues -- it's a vicious circle. PCGS is trying to hire graders. Other than that there really isn't an easy solution.

JoshL · July 8, 2003 4:06AM

<< 

<< So where is the responce from PCGS? This thread has been up for awhile...I didn't see a response yet? >>

David Hall posted to the thread on March 13. >>

I am looking for Davids response? Can you please post what he said...I do not see it on this thread? Sorry if I am missing it?

Thanks

kranky · July 8, 2003 4:15AM

He said:

"Von Zipper...

I have a big concern with quality control too. If you have a problem with pieces of plastic, snot, or whatever, I would consider it a personal favor if you could contact Sandy Locker and then send the coin to me personally. I promise I will raise Hell over the issue.

As to fingerprints, that's a more complex issue, and I plan to talk about ti next Tuesday.

David Hall"

WWBillman · July 8, 2003 4:21AM

You know the saying, don't let the door hit ya in the arse

psxchelly · July 8, 2003 4:31AM

What about Gold changing colors? Has anyone had proof or ms gold coins start to have bright orange appear? I have a few coins that have started with the bright unnatural orange. I think it is ruining my poor 1999 w G Washington proof. I liked that coin

I can attach pics if anyone wants to see it.

michelle

DCAMFranklin · July 8, 2003 4:38AM

Lots of unhappy little campers........

VonZipper · July 8, 2003 7:51AM

My point was I was told to send them directly to Sandy per David Hall which I did. A week later sandy sent an email she received them. Three weeks later I emailed to find out the status and was told they are working on it. I pm'd David Hall 1 month and was told they would get to them the next week. I pm'd David Hall 1 1/2 months and was told they would do it that week. I finally gave up and never heard from them again. I happened to check the status of my number at 3 months to find they had just shipped. No response, no explanations why the other two were'nt at least reslabbed. I was not trying to force anyone to replace any coins or regrade them, just wanted fixed what should have never gone out in the first place. What good is quality control if a coin is graded a high grade only to become a problem coin down the road. It only took me 10 minutes to look the coins over so why 3 months and no answers? Some concern for quality control and was the fingerprint issue ever explained or resolved, can you say too much liability. It just seems there is a lot of talk and no actions, maybe they should cut down the coin shows and concentrate on the business at hand. I will still only deal with PCGS graded coins but I think any future problem ones will go on Ebay.

Update: PCGS I want to hear about quality control......

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